Did Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, and Bob Harris ruin the X-Men?

[crimsontt]

No, Jim Lee helped propel X-Men to heights they'll never see again. If I could blame the current state of X-Men on anybody, I personally put it all on Bryan Singer.

I d blame the greedy disney executives that almost killed the franchise before the disney/fox merge.

[K7P5V]

I think they were decent plotters and generally had good grasp of characters, but I didn't like their actual writing - particularly Lobdell. It was so overwrought, everything was spelled out. There was not much subtlety.

As someone who started at Byrne/Claremont era, I thought Lobdell/Nicieza step down, although it is certainly true Claremont wasn't so great towards the end and he probably should have quit when he was still ahead, so to speak. Anyway I wouldn't say they 'ruined it', certainly there have been worse stuff.
I agree with the notion that Jim Lee did much to this era's popularity although personally I think his art maybe hasn't aged so well. Also in his time X-women were very much sexed up which probably explains much of the popularity.

In agreement with you about how sexy things got back then.
But let's not forget all those cool, bad-ass poses both Lee & Liefeld were capable of producing...

[Castle]

Claremont did great things for the X-Men early in his run but towards the end, I couldn't stomach his writing. It was unbearable.

I wouldn't say those three ruined X-Men because we did some good stories out of them. But comparing their heyday to Claremont's, Claremont wins.

Most comic book stories in general, DC included has never reached the heights of their 80s and 90s heydays.

No, Jim Lee helped propel X-Men to heights they'll never see again. If I could blame the current state of X-Men on anybody, I personally put it all on Bryan Singer.

This is a fantasy most don't buy even with the serious allegations Singer sexually assaulted young boys. Currently some of the best Films Singer did is one of the few legs X-Men can stand on even higher than the current Marvel Disney movies. If you think I am wrong, go on Disney plus and see this reactions to Days Of Future Past, a movie Singer directed. Speaking of ruining xmen, we should be more concerned about Disney X-men movies at least Singer did not pretend X-Men was a shallow cooperate kids flicks thing.

I d blame the greedy disney executives that almost killed the franchise before the disney/fox merge.

The disney/fox merge was just a sad mishap. it should never had happened but that been said, I am fine that the last movie before the merge was Logan.Logan so far apart from Joss Whedon Astonishing X-Men has been the highest highlight of X-Men in this century.

The Disney executive greedy angle was more about disney trying to stop writers from creating new characters, not allowing xmen on video games and marvel promotional covers and from some fans, using inhumans to replace x-men.

Personally I never took what Disney executives was doing then as a threat to ruin X-men as some fans did, that would be like Warner brothers trying to destroy Batman in other visionary formats but films. lol. There is just so much history and lore that cannot be erased. It was Inhumans instead that got ruined.

[Triniking1234]

Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld are heroes.

Harras sucks tho. He screwed over Claremont and Louise Simonson cuz he disagreed with their plots and wanted the artists to actually do that plotting rather than the normal Marvel method. Then he managed to piss off the superstar artists and they left. X-Men was still a top seller for ages since you had TAS hype and then the movies to keep it important until Morrison came on.

[Purplevit]

Love them.

Forever the most iconic X-Men art!

[cc008]

I hold Jim Lee in much higher regard than I do Liefeld. I don't mean that in a mean way, just in relation to how I feel about them and the X-Men. I am thankful for Deadpool of course, but Fabian Nicieza and Joe Kelly molded Wade much more than Rob ever did.

[Castle]

Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld are heroes.

Harras sucks tho. He screwed over Claremont and Louise Simonson cuz he disagreed with their plots and wanted the artists to actually do that plotting rather than the normal Marvel method. Then he managed to piss off the superstar artists and they left. X-Men was still a top seller for ages since you had TAS hype and then the movies to keep it important until Morrison came on.

Primary notice. Cartoons and movies don't affect the comics much. I don't want to speak of the other marvels but I can speak that way for X-men and Spiderman.

And for a very long time, movies were not affecting comics. this was changed when disney got marvel studios. I don't know much about Hickman shading the MCU as some fans have pointed out since I am not reading his run but I can only guess Hickman may be old fashion. old fashion meaning everything is separate to him.

[davetvs]

Everyone thinks the era they got into something was the height of the franchise in question. If Claremont had been left to do what he wanted, it would've been something else that '90s kids would praise to high heaven.

Most discussions can just be ended with this one point lol

[Jackraow21]

Love them.

Forever the most iconic X-Men art!

Agreed. Those are my X-men.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I will be forever torn on Bob Harras as X-Men editor.

On the one hand, his original sin of letting Claremont go is unforgivable. To think of the many more years of stories by Chris we never got to see is infuriating. Tom DeFalco as EIC at the time is equally culpable - to get rid of your most popular writer, thanks to whom you even have your job in the first place, to chase the hot artists du jour and the neverending crossover mentality is the epitome of short-sightedness.

To those who say Claremont was already faltering in those last few years... we must have been reading different stories. The first Genoshan saga, Inferno, the whole Lee run are written by a Claremont who's absolutely on fire and at the top of his game. His masterful plots, the myriad of subplots, his character work are unparalleled and unrivalled for breadth of work, characters created, defined and redefined, length and series spanned, all the more impressive considering we're talking about work for hire. No Alan Moore, no Grant Morrison, no Neil Gaiman, no George RR Martin ever come close all things considered.

But going back to Harras - if, with immense effort, I exclude the Claremont part, I have to say I consider him the best X-editor of all time. Nobody else ever come close in terms of coherent, well-developed mega-X-saga spanning multiple titles, with Age of Apocalypse being the pinnacle of his reign as X-editor. Things were never the same once he got promoted to EIC and Mark Powers took over as X-editor, giving way to a revolving door of creators bogged down by incompetent editorial interference.

Regarding Lee and Liefeld, I think they brought a lot of excitement to their respective series and redefined the look of many characters for generations, so much so a lot of their aesthetic lasts to this day. Their contribution to the X-mythos are important and undeniable regardless of one's personal taste.

[Mutant X]

They are responsible not just for the X-men ruin but for the almost ruin of all comics industry in the '90s.

[seccruz]

Yes! Next question...

[Cerridwen]

Things were great until Seagle and Kelly left.

[Voices From the Eyrie]

Love them.

Forever the most iconic X-Men art!

Why isn't Magneto looking at them?

That crap is no where near as gorgeous or iconic as the following:

DIG012549_1._SX360_QL80_TTD_.jpg
61qUslZt8yL.jpg
61zmPtnQVRL._SX333_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

These are my X-Men.

[Ra-El]

Why isn't Magneto looking at them?

That crap is no where near as gorgeous or iconic as the following:

DIG012549_1._SX360_QL80_TTD_.jpg
61qUslZt8yL.jpg
61zmPtnQVRL._SX333_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

These are my X-Men.

It beats every single one, with the possible exception of the second one.