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  1. #16
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    get a popular creative team and dont release during a pandemic
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Guy
    There are creatures science refuses to recognize...but if new technology makes us question what is real...If OUR EYES SEE IT...IF OUR CAMERAS CAPTURE IT...DOES IT EXIST? ENTER A REALM WHERE FACT meets FICTION....SCIENCE meets LEGEND...WHERE NIGHTMARES COME TO LIFE...DO YOU BELIEVE?"

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Cool Thatguy
    Because Ghost Rider is basically Jason, only he's aimed at bad guys.

    I mean, yeah he looks awesome. But he's basically an indestructible, unrelenting creature of vengeance. Just slowing him down is an accomplishment. And though he filled the same role as the Spectre, he's never crossed the same lines.

    So yeah, where's the tension? The drama? He's virtually impossible to hurt or even slow down.
    It's about the writers telling stories with characters who give Ghost Rider a tough time, which is something they're able to do with numerous other characters who are invincible - like the Hulk. They made good Ghost Rider on Agents of SHIELD where he was really strong but they didn't make him impossible to kill and he fought characters who he couldn't simply roll over. A big problem GR's had is a bad rogue gallery and he lost a nice "Venom" when Vengeance turned into a good guy. Dr. Strange has this problem, as well.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Well, it worked in the comics in the 70's and again in the 90's and while the movies weren't super blockbusters, they did ok. So, it's not that the concept doesn't work. It's more a case of the shrinking direct market and how well Marvel expects titles to do in said market. I kinda feel if it were a creator owned title from an indie as opposed to a corporate IP, GR would be given more of a chance by said owner.
    Right. You only need a good creative team -- because the concept is fine. I think often they get too into the details with the spirit of vengeance and all that nonsense. Keep it simple -- he's basically a good guy who can manifest powers from Hell. Yes, there is a temptation to give into the dark side, but for the most part -- he doesn't. I don't like when they go off the rails with cosmic GR and multiple GRs. Blaze and Ketch were both good.

  4. #19
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallen View Post
    Sorry, I should’ve clarified, in modern comics.
    It would work if:
    1) the writing wasn't sub-par; and
    2) the book didn't have so much competition.
    "Cable was right!"

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Right. You only need a good creative team -- because the concept is fine. Keep it simple -- he's basically a good guy who can manifest powers from Hell. Yes, there is a temptation to give into the dark side, but for the most part -- he doesn't. I don't like when they go off the rails with cosmic GR and multiple GRs. Blaze and Ketch were both good.
    Agreed. Blaze & Ketch is all that's needed. Spirits of Vengeance from the '90s is a testament to that...


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    A big problem GR's had is a bad rogue gallery and he lost a nice "Venom" when Vengeance turned into a good guy.
    Agreed. Always thought Badilino's Vengeance had potential...


  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    Part of the problem is that every Ghost Rider series comes with a massive retcon, or reimagining. He's a demon, a ghost, an an angel, there are two, three, forty thousand and so forth.

    In the l awe st one we barely got to see Danny as GR at all. If we'd of gotten a couple issues of one-offs to set the tone I think it would of done much better.
    That is the main problem. There should only be one Ghost Rider at a time period. That was what made the 2nd one work. Dan was the Ghost Rider, and even when they did bring Johnny back into the series he was not Ghost Rider. I think that should be a thing with all former hosts in even though they are no longer GR they should still have some after effects like Blaze being able to channel Hellfire through his shotgun. I think every former host should have lingering after effect be it good or bad.

  7. #22
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    I don't think Ghost Rider and Hulk is a 1:1 comparison in this. The Hulk is one of the biggest comic book characters of all time with a huge general audience that was reading the book before horror elements were added to it the way it was. It is easier to add horror elements into a book like that and maintain a portion of its audience than to convince a new audience to take a chance on a horror book. Furthermore, because it is the Hulk the portion that sticks around is likely be bigger than the number of literally everyone who tries a Ghost Rider book. In general, it seems to me that most horror books don't sell well, but if horror is injected into a book like Venom then people will buy and enjoy it. The list of failed horror books go on and on, Howling Commandos, Morbius, Monsters Unleashed, etc. It is a way bigger issue than just Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider is luckier than most, I suspect. I don't think the recent Werewolf by Night series is going to prove lucrative.

    Now, this may be due to personal bias, but I do wonder if their failure is often because the horror elements in these books are often so soft and shallow. A lot of times despite being in the horror or supernatural sub-genre the books have a generic superhero tone. Hulk is the most uncompromised horror book since Carnage, I think, and both of those books sell/sold well.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Who knows? I'm a hugh GR fan, and it's sad that the character isn't as popular as he used to be. Maybe they should used what worked for the character in the 70's and early 90's that drew people to the comic. He's an awesome character to be sent to the back burner.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Skeleton View Post
    ...Maybe they should used what worked for the character in the 70's and early 90's that drew people to the comic. He's an awesome character to be sent to the back burner.
    If and when they do that, I’ll be there.

    The more powerful GR became the less interest I had in the character. He shouldn’t be King of Hell, he should be in constant fear of, but still fighting it. He shouldn’t just be able to take down class 100 characters (or even higher, wtf), but hang w. Opponents due to his unique powerset. Maybe ppl want a more stripped down GR?
    I dunno maybe it’s just me.

  10. #25
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    I always want to get into Ghost Rider but the recent comics don't hold my interest for long. I don't really care for Johnny Blaze as the Ghost Rider in modern comics, because he's such a product of his time, you have to get into the whole "he's a stunt cyclist for a circus" thing and that's kind of hokey to me and the whole King of Hell angle they gave him takes away from the whole "I'm cursed to become a demon" thing and any drama and pathos that brings. I prefer the Danny Ketch design but I don't even know what the character does when he's not Ghost Rider, does he even have a supporting cast? And then they made his whole backstory so complicated that they had to just ditch him for a while and create new Ghost Riders.

    Never read the female GR and I'm kinda "meh" on Robbie Reyes

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFallen View Post
    He is one of the most distinctly recognisable characters. His last solo by Ed Brisson was pretty good and was selling in the top 100 comics monthly and there is the live action coming.

    The horror of Immortal Hulk shows that Marvel can do horror really well but Ghost Rider seems to always flounder.

    My personal nostalgia longs for a return of the Midnight Sons family, to see Ghost Rider, Blade, Morbius, the Nightstalkers, Hellstorm holding their own in their own part of the MU. Even Terror Inc, could be thrown in the mix.

    While I’m at it, I’d take a mini series, or even better an ongoing, of Ghost Rider 2099.

    So why doesn’t Ghost Rider seem to work as a regular ongoing?
    The issue with Ghost Rider has always been reinventing the wheel. Ghost Rider is a story about a man or woman who in an effort to do the right thing becomes a monster and ends up having to live with that for better or worse. Ghost Rider is not a complicated story but every time someone comes onto the book they have to reinvent the wheel and it makes things more complicated than what it needs to be (the same problem X-men and Avengers tend to have "where do I start?"). Ghost Rider is essentially a reboot every time a new book launches which means that while we do end up more or less with the same character design, it can vary wildly what Ghost Rider's deal is. The average joe has about as much idea what Ghost Rider is as Moon Knight except Moon Knight's reboot actually stuck.

    The other issue is that Ghost Rider doesn't exactly have a face and what I mean by that is that when you look at Spider-man you know it's Peter Parker. When you look at Hulk you know it's Bruce Banner. The problem Ghost Rider has is that his most iconic design (leather biker gear) isn't even his, it's his 90's replacement Danny Ketch. Johnny and Danny basically look the same and due to how common reboots are to this brand you can't outright tell where Johnny's story stops and Danny's begins even if one or the other is even the current Ghost Rider.

    Ghost Rider also doesn't have many clearly defined powers and most will just fill in the blanks from Nic Cage movies. Keep in mind that your modern kid probably has at the very least heard of them but likely hasn't seen them. So while kids and potential readers know Hulk smashes and Iron man has advanced technology, Ghost Rider is a guy with a chain and he's on fire. They have no idea which rider does what let alone who drives what vehicle or why it matters.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  12. #27
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    It probably won’t happen because of the push for diversity but like has been mentioned here it might be best to strip GR back to just being one person to hold the mantle. That would mean Robbie Reyes would need a new name and since he isn’t actually a Ghost Rider then that could keep him in use with only one actual GR.

    I’ve also had a dream to see the Spirits of Vengeance return, the old 90s team, but with the roles reversed. Johnny as GR and Danny in the human role with the hellfire shotgun. The idea of previous GR hosts having residual affects of their possession is a good angle. Danny being a former addict and the risk of relapse giving the human face and drama that was also mentioned earlier is a possible way for the story to go.

    The crazy thing here though is the recent GR series was a success. It was selling in the top 100 which means there is a market for it. There has been rumours of GR in live action coming soon, it was going to be the Hulu series but maybe a Disney+ series is coming? A live action movie? I think it is the common opinion that the Nic Cage GR looked good so it can work in live action. Maybe there is a plan for GR to come back in a solo series?

    The more horror marvel the better. There are still a whole family of titles that can fall under that umbrella, its just frustrating that it doesn’t seem to be sustainable.

  13. #28
    Be Seeing You…
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    Because every run is about the mystery of Ghost Rider, or what Ghost Rider REALLY is. We never see GR just doing the job.

  14. #29
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    Who would be the best creative team to do it?

    I’d like to see Garth Ennis just because of his visceral over the top style. But I think Jeff Lemire would be a great architect. Could also go old school and have Ron Garney. And might as well have Mark Texeria, Ron Lim and the Kuberts to completely relive my 90s nostalgia. I mean, how great is that pin up K7P5V posted? I spent way too long looking at the previews of the upcoming Midnight Sons titles back in the day
    Last edited by TheFallen; 10-30-2020 at 05:04 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's about the writers telling stories with characters who give Ghost Rider a tough time, which is something they're able to do with numerous other characters who are invincible - like the Hulk. They made good Ghost Rider on Agents of SHIELD where he was really strong but they didn't make him impossible to kill and he fought characters who he couldn't simply roll over. A big problem GR's had is a bad rogue gallery and he lost a nice "Venom" when Vengeance turned into a good guy. Dr. Strange has this problem, as well.
    Again, I'm not saying its impossible to tell a good Ghost Rider story, but it is very hard.

    His appearance on Agents of Shield actually demonstrates that. Because his powers were magic, he was able to basically walk over everything the team threw at him, and were forced work alongside him. The only thing that could hurt him or really slow him down was the Darkhold

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