Preferred Origin Story?

[witchboy]

Gods and Morals drew from the classic origin but added much grandeur and depth. Diana's soul being the child Hippolyta was carrying when she died was such a perfect touch.
The only failing Perez made was taking Steve out as a love interest. Romantic love should be a part of Diana's life, and while the post Crisis reboot was wonderful, Diana was missing that one component that she didn't have a great love, and imo, she never got it.

[Gaius]

Gods and Morals drew from the classic origin but added much grandeur and depth. Diana's soul being the child Hippolyta was carrying when she died was such a perfect touch.
The only failing Perez made was taking Steve out as a love interest. Romantic love should be a part of Diana's life, and while the post Crisis reboot was wonderful, Diana was missing that one component that she didn't have a great love, and imo, she never got it.

I think at the time compared to how the relationship and Steve had been written by that point, it was probably the most interesting/smart thing that could have been done with Steve but I agree long-term it had some negative lasting effects. I think stuff like the movie and Year One show you can still have the romance angle and not fall so hard into "falls in love with the first man she sees" but that did come later so hindsight and all.

[witchboy]

I think at the time compared to how the relationship and Steve had been written by that point, it was probably the most interesting/smart thing that could have been done with Steve but I agree long-term it had some negative lasting effects. I think stuff like the movie and Year One show you can still have the romance angle and not fall so hard into "falls in love with the first man she sees" but that did come later so hindsight and all.

I understand why Perez wanted to avoid Diana falling in love with the first man she saw, and not put an immediate focus on her love life. The problem came when she never got a strong, lasting love interest to replace him.

[Tzigone]

I understand why Perez wanted to avoid Diana falling in love with the first man she saw, and not put an immediate focus on her love life. The problem came when she never got a strong, lasting love interest to replace him.

Also with the lack of Etta as a bff. I mean, I like the Kapatelis ladies fine. Some lovely moments there. But I do think the lack of consistent supporting cast and setting hurt Diana. Now, that's not Perez's fault. It was gone long before he showed up on the scene. Other writers not using the characters well after Marston, of course, and frankly I still think her origin and first setting in man's world hamstrung her. I mean, of course, back then they would not have been likely to foresee the same characters remaining popular for decades so it becoming dated wouldn't be on their minds. But you had to see this one was going to fall apart as soon the war the was over. But if they were only expecting to get 5 years out of the character anyway, that didn't matter, and it was very topical and entertainment media was full of heroes fighting those battles and so it was likely to sell well. It made very good sense in that context.

I admit that having Steve as a regular cast could be an uphill battle, without Diana in the military (where I don't think she should be in the modern era), and Etta did not fit the more serious tone they really wanted then (and perhaps needed).

Was he planning the Kapatelis' to last long-term? I mean, as a forever-sort of long-term supporting cast in the way of Jim Gordon or Lois Lane. Though, to be fair, those king of long-term casts are more the exception than rule, and mostly made eternal by other media.

[Gaius]

I understand why Perez wanted to avoid Diana falling in love with the first man she saw, and not put an immediate focus on her love life. The problem came when she never got a strong, lasting love interest to replace him.

Not really disagreeing, I thought the character she had the best chemistry in Post-Crisis with was Artemis than the various Steve stand-ins and that was probably unintentional on the writers' parts.

[witchboy]

Not really disagreeing, I thought the character she had the best chemistry in Post-Crisis with was Artemis than the various Steve stand-ins and that was probably unintentional on the writers' parts.

I can see that. I am more invested in her relationship with Artemis than any of the Steve stand ins, as you say.

[Psy-lock]

Gods and Mortals by far. I absolutely love the way it's drawn and written, it feels like a modern-day Greek myth.

[Artemisfanboy]

I went with the Perez one (Gods and Mortals). It has few flaws. The most notable one is it should have been set five years in the past around the same time as Man of Steel and Batman Year One, and Donna should have been kept as Diana's younger adopted sister with her having been brought to Paradise Island by one of the goddesses.

Year One, or possibly more accurate to say Rucka's second run, I have some personal issues with, partially in relation to the wider run. I feel decision to have Diana being cut off from Themyscira completely for the ten year gap barred a lot of the Pre-flaspoint continuity restored and undermined or made pointless the Flashbacks she was having to the Preflashpoint continuity since much of those events couldn't happen without her having access to Themyscira, and I also highly suspect that decision messed up Abnett's plans to restore Donna to a version of her original origin in Titans Rebirth. It might be more accurate to say these are problems with Lies/Truth, but the four arcs of Rucka's second run are highly interconnected, so its difficult for me to separate them.

And I'm keeping an open mind towards her getting a new origin placing her back in the Golden Age alongside the JSA. The fact Orlando already used this change in continuity to retcon out the "not able to return to Themyscira" element and fixing Donna's origin by restoring her to being Diana's younger adopted sister again in his run are already major selling points for me.

Especially Donna. Backing out of changing Diana's origin now would rescrew up Donna's origin and undo the work Orlando did fixing her. I don't understand why some people are attached enough to Year One they want DC to back out of changing Diana's origin in order to stick with Year One when it would have huge negative effect on Donna. I understand the frustration of them deciding to change Diana's origin so soon, but I'm already seeing a positive net change as a result.

[Gaius]

I went with the Perez one (Gods and Mortals). It has few flaws. The most notable one is it should have been set five years in the past around the same time as Man of Steel and Batman Year One, and Donna should have been kept as Diana's younger adopted sister with her having been brought to Paradise Island by one of the goddesses.

Year One, or possibly more accurate to say Rucka's second run, I have some personal issues with, partially in relation to the wider run. I feel decision to have Diana being cut off from Themyscira completely for the ten year gap barred a lot of the Pre-flaspoint continuity restored and undermined or made pointless the Flashbacks she was having to the Preflashpoint continuity since much of those events couldn't happen without her having access to Themyscira, and I also highly suspect that decision messed up Abnett's plans to restore Donna to a version of her original origin in Titans Rebirth. It might be more accurate to say these are problems with Lies/Truth, but the four arcs of Rucka's second run are highly interconnected, so its difficult for me to separate them.

And I'm keeping an open mind towards her getting a new origin placing her back in the Golden Age alongside the JSA. The fact Orlando already used this change in continuity to retcon out the "not able to return to Themyscira" element and fixing Donna's origin by restoring her to being Diana's younger adopted sister again in his run are already major selling points for me.

Especially Donna. Backing out of changing Diana's origin now would rescrew up Donna's origin and undo the work Orlando did fixing her. I don't understand why some people are attached enough to Year One they want DC to back out of changing Diana's origin in order to stick with Year One when it would have huge negative effect on Donna. I understand the frustration of them deciding to change Diana's origin so soon, but I'm already seeing a positive net change as a result.

For me it's it's mainly just seeming a mixture of needless movie synergy and DC's main priorities with it seeming to be just using WW to help buildup another franchise, not WW or characters related to her.

I mean, we all know Diana being the first public hero won't mean anything once she's in the same room with Bruce and Clark.

[Dr. Poison]

New 52, all the way!

Can you please explain why you like this "origin" as we never even saw how Diana became Wonder Woman in that continuity. All we basically got was Diana was the daughter of Zeus and Steve Trevor crashed on Paradise Island.

[SiegePerilous02]

I went with the Perez one (Gods and Mortals). It has few flaws. The most notable one is it should have been set five years in the past around the same time as Man of Steel and Batman Year One, and Donna should have been kept as Diana's younger adopted sister with her having been brought to Paradise Island by one of the goddesses.

Year One, or possibly more accurate to say Rucka's second run, I have some personal issues with, partially in relation to the wider run. I feel decision to have Diana being cut off from Themyscira completely for the ten year gap barred a lot of the Pre-flaspoint continuity restored and undermined or made pointless the Flashbacks she was having to the Preflashpoint continuity since much of those events couldn't happen without her having access to Themyscira, and I also highly suspect that decision messed up Abnett's plans to restore Donna to a version of her original origin in Titans Rebirth. It might be more accurate to say these are problems with Lies/Truth, but the four arcs of Rucka's second run are highly interconnected, so its difficult for me to separate them.

And I'm keeping an open mind towards her getting a new origin placing her back in the Golden Age alongside the JSA. The fact Orlando already used this change in continuity to retcon out the "not able to return to Themyscira" element and fixing Donna's origin by restoring her to being Diana's younger adopted sister again in his run are already major selling points for me.

Especially Donna. Backing out of changing Diana's origin now would rescrew up Donna's origin and undo the work Orlando did fixing her. I don't understand why some people are attached enough to Year One they want DC to back out of changing Diana's origin in order to stick with Year One when it would have huge negative effect on Donna. I understand the frustration of them deciding to change Diana's origin so soon, but I'm already seeing a positive net change as a result.

Did Abnett actually have plans for Donna's origin? Considering how underwhelming his entire time on the Titans was, I'm doubtful Rucka's Year One really interfered with whatever they had planned for Donna. It doesn't even create an issue. She wasn't present in the scenes on the island in Year One, but it doesn't require complicated writing to create some additional scenes featuring her before Diana leaves. It means Diana isn't the one who rescues her and brings her to the island, but the way the timeline works necessitates that Diana can't be the one to do it anyway. Wonder Woman almost always debuts around the time of Robin or shortly after, who is meant to be the same age as Donna, so it doesn't make sense that Diana rescues an infant a decade younger than Dick.

No reason a God can't rescue Donna and bring her to the island while Diana is a young teen, and then she can leave shortly after Diana does to become Wonder Girl. Abnett or the editors not thinking of something like this simple solution isn't really on Rucka.

[Artemisfanboy]

Did Abnett actually have plans for Donna's origin? Considering how underwhelming his entire time on the Titans was, I'm doubtful Rucka's Year One really interfered with whatever they had planned for Donna. It doesn't even create an issue. She wasn't present in the scenes on the island in Year One, but it doesn't require complicated writing to create some additional scenes featuring her before Diana leaves. It means Diana isn't the one who rescues her and brings her to the island, but the way the timeline works necessitates that Diana can't be the one to do it anyway. Wonder Woman almost always debuts around the time of Robin or shortly after, who is meant to be the same age as Donna, so it doesn't make sense that Diana rescues an infant a decade younger than Dick.

No reason a God can't rescue Donna and bring her to the island while Diana is a young teen, and then she can leave shortly after Diana does to become Wonder Girl. Abnett or the editors not thinking of something like this simple solution isn't really on Rucka.

It's admittedly purely conjecture on my part. But in issue 7 of Titans Donna says she has no memories pror to age seven when she was adopted by Amazons. Then begining in the Titans Annual we have a weird shift where it's like they're trying to back out and go back to the Finch Origin with her being a living weapon created to destroy the Amazons with fake memories, despite this not working in the Rebirth Continuity either. In between these points we have Rucka confirming Diana has never been back to Themyscira. I can't help but feel Abnett was planning one thing but then had to swerve due to outside reasons.

It's not entirely on Rucka. You can also blame bad editorial coordination and communication between Abnett and Rucka. But the end result of whatever was going on was Donna ended up being a very bad space without any origin that made sense and on bad terms with Diana until Orlando straightened things by restoring Donna to being Diana's younger adopted sister and being trained by her in Themyscira, and getting them back on good terms with each other.

While trying to retcon Donna into being on the Island during year one and throwing out Abnett's weapon stuff may have been possible, it comes with it's own problems how to accomplish that. But if we were stuck with trying to make Rucka's setup work it would be our only real option and I'd be for it out of necessity.

And yes, if we want Diana to debut in modern day, Donna needs to be brought to Themyscira by somebody else and grow up alongside Diana as her younger sister. And I'd be all for that. Donna being Diana's younger adopted sister is the core element of Donna's origin feel should be maintained. Other details can vary. As pointed out I feel Perez's biggest flaws is not having Diana's origin happen at the same time as Man of Steel and Batman Year One, and not having Donna been brought to the Island by one of the goddesses or the Naiads. I can swing either way with Diana debuting in either the modern day, or back in the past. If it's far back enough, then Diana can rescue Donna, and if not Donna can be brought by a goddess.

But I'm evaluating the situation as it currently stands. Orlando's work cleaning up the mess Donna was in was built on Diana's history being revised again post Doomsday Clock and WW #750. Is Year One really good enough to justify possibly and probably screwing Donna over? I don't think so. I kind of get the feeling people who are asking to stick with Year One are forgetting to take Donna into consideration.

[SiegePerilous02]

It's admittedly purely conjecture on my part. But in issue 7 of Titans Donna says she has no memories pror to age seven when she was adopted by Amazons. Then begining in the Titans Annual we have a weird shift where it's like they're trying to back out and go back to the Finch Origin with her being a living weapon created to destroy the Amazons with fake memories, despite this not working in the Rebirth Continuity either. In between these points we have Rucka confirming Diana has never been back to Themyscira. I can't help but feel Abnett was planning one thing but then had to swerve due to outside reasons.

It's not entirely on Rucka. You can also blame bad editorial coordination and communication between Abnett and Rucka. But the end result of whatever was going on was Donna ended up being a very bad space without any origin that made sense and on bad terms with Diana until Orlando straightened things by restoring Donna to being Diana's younger adopted sister and being trained by her in Themyscira, and getting them back on good terms with each other.

While trying to retcon Donna into being on the Island during year one and throwing out Abnett's weapon stuff may have been possible, it comes with it's own problems how to accomplish that. But if we were stuck with trying to make Rucka's setup work it would be our only real option and I'd be for it out of necessity.

And yes, if we want Diana to debut in modern day, Donna needs to be brought to Themyscira by somebody else and grow up alongside Diana as her younger sister. And I'd be all for that. Donna being Diana's younger adopted sister is the core element of Donna's origin feel should be maintained. Other details can vary. As pointed out I feel Perez's biggest flaws is not having Diana's origin happen at the same time as Man of Steel and Batman Year One, and not having Donna been brought to the Island by one of the goddesses or the Naiads. I can swing either way with Diana debuting in either the modern day, or back in the past. If it's far back enough, then Diana can rescue Donna, and if not Donna can be brought by a goddess.

But I'm evaluating the situation as it currently stands. Orlando's work cleaning up the mess Donna was in was built on Diana's history being revised again post Doomsday Clock and WW #750. Is Year One really good enough to justify possibly and probably screwing Donna over? I don't think so. I kind of get the feeling people who are asking to stick with Year One are forgetting to take Donna into consideration.

I don't know if it's that we're forgetting to take Donna into consideration, it's just that she's not a priority for all of us at the expense of stories and characters we like. I'm a much bigger fan of Barbara Minerva than Donna, and her Rebirth set up with Year One isn't worth losing for me for more origin tweaks for both Donna and Diana. Given the creators involved, I'm also not confident any revised thing we get will be better than Rucka's Year One. Not if Snyder is the main architect behind it.

I haven't been keeping track of the current situation. Rebirth, not just for WW but in general, lost the room for me a while ago and it all feels like pointless filler until the next big direction. I feel like Orlando's stuff can be ditched and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I would have liked Orlando on the book under more ideal circumstances and not inheriting the underwhelming stuff he got from Robinson, Wilson and Abnett to work with. He may have been able to be fully in charge of setting up Donna for Rebirth, which would have been ideal When we just had an origin story that was very well received with a popular writer/artist team, doing yet another one seems very pointless. Especially weighing it for Diana's needs against Donna's, a supporting player who has no consistent presence in the IP she's tied to and little or no roles in any of the major runs.* Though like I said above, Year One can be kept as the basis without losing Donna.

* I do like Donna, but mostly only pre-COIE NTT Donna and some of Jimenez's uses of her. That's enough to want me to always want to include her, but she's not the main priority.

[Artemisfanboy]

Well I guess we all have different priorities and concerns. I wasn't that big a fan of Rucka's second run due to Diana's flashbacks to the Pre-Flashpoint continuity being made pointless and undermined with the whole "hasn't ever been back to Themyscira" reveal. If they were going to go that way they shouldn't of included the flashbacks to the Preflaspoint continuity. Otherwise they should have just actually restored the Preflashpoint continuity. And then you had in the mess Donna was in. And I guess I'm more confident her current relationship dynamics with Etta, Steve, Barbara, are likely to be salvaged and retained more or less despite some possible changes, though I can understand the concerns about how they'll be affected. Meanwhile with Donna, I'm less sure she'd have been fixed and returned to being Diana's younger adopted sister if they'd stuck with Rucka's set up or it would be kept as Diana's sister if they backed out. Ideally nobody should have to suffer at another characters expense. I wish they had planned things out and asked Rucka and Scott to give a young Donna at least a cameo during the Island parts Year One. I'm sure we can come up with ways to try and make an origin with Donna as Diana's younger sister fit within the Rucka Rebirth framework however awkward it might have to be, but i don't have much confidence that'd we'd have gotten that. I'm much more scared we'd get a revised version of the Finch Origin or something else, which seemed to be the direction they were leaning in during Titans after annual.

So from where I'm standing two of my major problems with the Rebirth set up have already been addressed and fixed with the origin shift. So I'm weighing things and I'm willing to give Diana getting her origin revised a chance. For all I know I may end up eating my words, but I'm willing to take the chance.

As an aside I really wish they would take Donna into consideration from the beginning instead of treating her as an afterthought. Closest we've gotten is "Troia" in Morrison's Earth One and there's she's just another background Amazon character and doesn't seem to have any close sisterly connection with Diana.