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  1. #31
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the ongoing comics are better IP farms than the OGN and YA novels, but that's just my take.
    I don't really think so. All you need of an ip farm is stories good enough to loosely inspire movies and shows. Most of those tend to be outside of continuity anyways, or often don't rely or really connect with continuity anyways even when they are in continuity. Very rarely does previous continuity matter to the best stories, especially the ones that are easy to adapt. The MCU can pull it off, but needing 20+ movies to set up an event is a bit much.

    And on top of that, OGNs make more money than the monthlies. If both models work out well enough as up farms, might as well go with the farm that has more eyes on it.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't really think so. All you need of an ip farm is stories good enough to loosely inspire movies and shows. Most of those tend to be outside of continuity anyways, or often don't rely or really connect with continuity anyways even when they are in continuity. Very rarely does previous continuity matter to the best stories, especially the ones that are easy to adapt. The MCU can pull it off, but needing 20+ movies to set up an event is a bit much.

    And on top of that, OGNs make more money than the monthlies. If both models work out well enough as up farms, might as well go with the farm that has more eyes on it.
    I know that sadly, when it comes to Superman, most of his stuff that have any impact on outside media is out of continuity, the last Superman story on the main DC series that had any impact was What's so funny, and maybe Jon introduction.

    The Superman stuff that really matters are All-Star, Red Son, Kingdom Come, Birthright, American Alien, etc. It's a shame that all happen to be some variation of his origin, his death of him being evil.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the ongoing comics are better IP farms than the OGN and YA novels, but that's just my take.
    The stand-alones are much better sources of IP than are the continuing series, because 99% of the people going to a movie or watching a TV series based on DC's IP have no familiarity with most of the back-story history that is a prerequisite for following the continuing comic books. Each new movie or TV show has to establish its own backstory as a completely self-contained entity, without reference to the decades of legacy continuity.

  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't really think so. All you need of an ip farm is stories good enough to loosely inspire movies and shows. Most of those tend to be outside of continuity anyways, or often don't rely or really connect with continuity anyways even when they are in continuity. Very rarely does previous continuity matter to the best stories, especially the ones that are easy to adapt. The MCU can pull it off, but needing 20+ movies to set up an event is a bit much.

    And on top of that, OGNs make more money than the monthlies. If both models work out well enough as up farms, might as well go with the farm that has more eyes on it.
    The MCU usually pulls from the ongoing continuities, more or less just mixing and matching stuff, but still. And I think there's usually a good balance between stuff adapted from in-continuity stories and character development and stuff adapted from moments or stories directly from standalone works.

    At least in my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I know that sadly, when it comes to Superman, most of his stuff that have any impact on outside media is out of continuity, the last Superman story on the main DC series that had any impact was What's so funny, and maybe Jon introduction.

    The Superman stuff that really matters are All-Star, Red Son, Kingdom Come, Birthright, American Alien, etc. It's a shame that all happen to be some variation of his origin, his death of him being evil.
    They were able to make an animated duology out of Death/Reign and the upcoming CW show is taking inspiration from the Rebirth run, so I don't think it's just those stories that matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by seismic-2 View Post
    The stand-alones are much better sources of IP than are the continuing series, because 99% of the people going to a movie or watching a TV series based on DC's IP have no familiarity with most of the back-story history that is a prerequisite for following the continuing comic books. Each new movie or TV show has to establish its own backstory as a completely self-contained entity, without reference to the decades of legacy continuity.
    You usually have to keep things straightforward and fresh for new viewers but I think that continuity is still adapted or informing character development/stories utilized in adaptions.

    I mean, I was surprised how much actual comic continuity was referenced in Batman vs TMNT, even if some of them were just Easter Eggs.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    I don't think so.

    First because DC probably will keep a few books on a continuity heavy universe. They probably will do something like part of the line is in continuity and part of it are their won thing.
    I have ask again; what about this would be different from the current model where they publish the out of continuity stuff under different imprints? The OGN lines, Black Label, the Digital first series all take place outside the main continuity. Seems like to me if the goal is produce more stand alone continuity stuff outside the main line, just using the existing Black Label imprint to do it would be far simpler, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't really think so. All you need of an ip farm is stories good enough to loosely inspire movies and shows. Most of those tend to be outside of continuity anyways, or often don't rely or really connect with continuity anyways even when they are in continuity. Very rarely does previous continuity matter to the best stories, especially the ones that are easy to adapt. The MCU can pull it off, but needing 20+ movies to set up an event is a bit much.

    And on top of that, OGNs make more money than the monthlies. If both models work out well enough as up farms, might as well go with the farm that has more eyes on it.
    Funny, you bring up the MCU because it proves you can retain and keep the shared universe continuity format in other formats than monthly floppies. You could for example do it through OGN's just as well as films.

    I will point out some potential problems with adopting this as their main model though.
    First of all history and trends show that they have tendency to heavily focus on Batman in side imprints, with most projects made involving him or his supporting cast. What guarantee do we have that other characters would be receiving focus without a shared universe and monthly publication?
    Secondly, I realize this just a matter of personal taste, but a large amount of DC's OGN output currently is too elseworldish for my taste. By which I mean radically off kilter from what I would consider a normal DC universe. I get that's probably a draw for some people, but I'm just not into them. And I don't think they'll make good adaptation material. Or at least material I'd be interested in.


    Quote Originally Posted by seismic-2 View Post
    The stand-alones are much better sources of IP than are the continuing series, because 99% of the people going to a movie or watching a TV series based on DC's IP have no familiarity with most of the back-story history that is a prerequisite for following the continuing comic books. Each new movie or TV show has to establish its own backstory as a completely self-contained entity, without reference to the decades of legacy continuity.
    Complete stand alones like OGN's and miniseries might make better direct blue prints for movies, but for a more serialized narrative like tv or cartoons I would think more longform story telling like runs would work better for inspiration.

    I also have to ask why people are treating this as credible news when it reeks of rumor mongering to me. And not very believable rumors to my ears.

  6. #36
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The MCU usually pulls from the ongoing continuities, more or less just mixing and matching stuff, but still. And I think there's usually a good balance between stuff adapted from in-continuity stories and character development and stuff adapted from moments or stories directly from standalone works.

    At least in my experience.
    I never said that they couldn't pull from main continuity, just that I don't think it's an inherently better ip farm. Also Marvel isn't DC, they've never had the same focus or success with their out of continuity stories.

    The no-or-low continuity stories are just as good at least for story farming, and they sell better as books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artemisfanboy View Post
    Funny, you bring up the MCU because it proves you can retain and keep the shared universe continuity format in other formats than monthly floppies. You could for example do it through OGN's just as well as films.
    They could, I agree. But why would you want the OGN market to copy the monthlies? The whole point is to move away from the dwindling market of strict continuity fans and get new readers who are intimidated by decades of continuity. I don't see them making this switch over just to make the same mistakes.

  7. #37
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemisfanboy View Post
    I will point out some potential problems with adopting this as their main model though.
    First of all history and trends show that they have tendency to heavily focus on Batman in side imprints, with most projects made involving him or his supporting cast. What guarantee do we have that other characters would be receiving focus without a shared universe and monthly publication?
    Secondly, I realize this just a matter of personal taste, but a large amount of DC's OGN output currently is too elseworldish for my taste. By which I mean radically off kilter from what I would consider a normal DC universe. I get that's probably a draw for some people, but I'm just not into them. And I don't think they'll make good adaptation material. Or at least material I'd be interested in.
    First thing isn't a problem at all - the characters that don't sell books get culled.
    And the second also isn't a problem. It just needs to interest a large enough audience outside the traditional long time comic book reader.
    And I disagree, I think things like Harleen, Curse of the White Knight, and Superman Smashes the Klan make for great adaptation material.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Took them 20 years but they finally arrived at hypertime. It was inevitable.

  9. #39
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Took them 20 years but they finally arrived at hypertime. It was inevitable.
    As usual, Grant Morrison is decades ahead of everyone else.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    First thing isn't a problem at all - the characters that don't sell books get culled.
    And the second also isn't a problem. It just needs to interest a large enough audience outside the traditional long time comic book reader.
    And I disagree, I think things like Harleen, Curse of the White Knight, and Superman Smashes the Klan make for great adaptation material.
    Most of us would consider a even greater level of Bat dominance not a positive feature. Not even Superman or Wonder Woman get anywhere near equal to treatment to the Batfamily as is, let alone anybody else.

    I acknowledged the second issue is matter of personal taste. But it is a problem for me at least.

    Those three were not the the kind of ones I was thinking off. Harleen and White Knight aren't that far off from what I'd consider a normal DC universe. Likewise Superman Smashes the Klan feels like a retro golden age throwback, so I'd also consider it to be close to a normal DC universe. I'm thinking along the lines of stuff like the highschool AU's and some other stuff. It's not a very easy thing to explain and it's probably subjective.

    I generally don't complain about them because even though they don't appeal to me personally, I understand other people might like that kind of stuff and there's other stuff I do care about. But if they were all that was being produced then I would have more of a problem, so I'd hope they'd fill the gap with more OGN's or miniseries taking place in universes that are more on model.

  11. #41
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I never said that they couldn't pull from main continuity, just that I don't think it's an inherently better ip farm. Also Marvel isn't DC, they've never had the same focus or success with their out of continuity stories.

    The no-or-low continuity stories are just as good at least for story farming, and they sell better as books.
    Now I'm just imagining Marvel promoting the fact that they still have an actual continuity .

    I dunno, I feel like they draw enough from the main continuity that it's generally seen as a pretty viable and common IP farm, no matter how well it sells versus the more "prestige" stuff.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemisfanboy View Post
    Most of us would consider a even greater level of Bat dominance not a positive feature. Not even Superman or Wonder Woman get anywhere near equal to treatment to the Batfamily as is, let alone anybody else.

    I acknowledged the second issue is matter of personal taste. But it is a problem for me at least.

    Those three were not the the kind of ones I was thinking off. Harleen and White Knight aren't that far off from what I'd consider a normal DC universe. Likewise Superman Smashes the Klan feels like a retro golden age throwback, so I'd also consider it to be close to a normal DC universe. I'm thinking along the lines of stuff like the highschool AU's and some other stuff. It's not a very easy thing to explain and it's probably subjective.

    I generally don't complain about them because even though they don't appeal to me personally, I understand other people might like that kind of stuff and there's other stuff I do care about. But if they were all that was being produced then I would have more of a problem, so I'd hope they'd fill the gap with more OGN's or miniseries taking place in universes that are more on model.
    It is extremely unlikely high school AU's will be the only thing produced even if they erase all continuity. The most likely is they would try different genres to attract different audiences.

    DC depends more on Batman, because the current direct market wants Batman (they consume it). So, they will depende on Batman even if they mantain the continuity.

    I don't know why do you think the situation with Batman will be worse.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Now I'm just imagining Marvel promoting the fact that they still have an actual continuity .

    I dunno, I feel like they draw enough from the main continuity that it's generally seen as a pretty viable and common IP farm, no matter how well it sells versus the more "prestige" stuff.
    I don't think continuity in comics really matters to adaptations so much.

    After all, even when they create connected universe as MCU, they need to create its own continuity (regardless the continuity in comics).

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The MCU usually pulls from the ongoing continuities, more or less just mixing and matching stuff, but still. And I think there's usually a good balance between stuff adapted from in-continuity stories and character development and stuff adapted from moments or stories directly from standalone works.
    With the MCU, that's because of differences between Marvel and DC. Marvel's iconic stories are a lot more likely to be in continuity than DCs

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    It is extremely unlikely high school AU's will be the only thing produced even if they erase all continuity. The most likely is they would try different genres to attract different audiences.

    DC depends more on Batman, because the current direct market wants Batman (they consume it). So, they will depende on Batman even if they mantain the continuity.

    I don't know why do you think the situation with Batman will be worse.
    It kinds of depend on how far they're departing into other genre's while diverging from a recognizable DC superhero universe.

    When you look at how overwhelmingly Bat heavy Black Label is compared to the main DC line and consider a situation where the main DC line has effectively been retired in favor of Black Label like publishing model as some are theorizing it's not hard to see. There's going to be a lot of Batman regardless but when you consider outside of Superman Year one and Wonder Woman Dead Earth, the rest of Black label has been either Bat related or Vertigo-esque, there would be a reason for concern.

    Though frankly I don't think this rumor is accurate at all and I don't see why we're seriously considering it.

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