The DC Omniverse – Continuity Changes In 2021

[Lee Stone]

This actually sounds exciting.

I hope it means that they can revisit some iconic runs.

[WebLurker]

First thought was how wonky and sloppy having discontinuity be the new normal. But then I considered how, after the series with Jessica Cruz got canceled, the only DC stuff I was getting was the occasional YA graphic novel, the new model probably wouldn't affect me that much and would actually be closer to my buying habits; I buy by character and occasionally specific story, not continuity.

[Stanlos]

This actually sounds exciting.

I hope it means that they can revisit some iconic runs.

Can you imagine a Gail Simone run using Rucka's evolution of Olympus?

Or a Ricks WW run where he gets to do Amazon's Attack by the original plan and the further evolution of Olympus? I sure hope it is so!

[Vakanai]

Most of us would consider a even greater level of Bat dominance not a positive feature. Not even Superman or Wonder Woman get anywhere near equal to treatment to the Batfamily as is, let alone anybody else.

I disagree - Batman may remain dominant, but I don't believe that he'll become more so in a more OGN less monthly floppy market. Remember, OGNs get to target more the book market outside of the direct market. Outside of the direct market there's more willingness to give new characters a chance, they're not as set in as us comic fans. Plus there's a bigger pool of people shopping so it's easier for a good book to get to profit than in the direct market. Batman might actually dominate less. I mean he might dominate more in whatever survives of the direct/monthly market, which might suck if that's all that matters to you, but overall he might dominate less. The book market is a different beast than what we're used to.

I acknowledged the second issue is matter of personal taste. But it is a problem for me at least.

Fair enough. If it helps, while they're all out of continuity, most of these books I've read aren't that Elseworld-y. Harleen feels like it could be her in continuity origin easy. Superman Smashes the Klan is pretty much faithful to his Golden Age era. Under the Moon A Catwoman Tale is a pretty good Catwoman origin I'd recommend without breaking much. Batman Overdrive is a pretty good Batman as a teenager origin story for little kids that doesn't break anything. Batman Nightwalker is the same but for a YA audience.

Yes there's outliers like Gotham High which are very, very different, but most in my experience aren't all that Elseworld-y from the usual status quo.

Those three were not the the kind of ones I was thinking off. Harleen and White Knight aren't that far off from what I'd consider a normal DC universe. Likewise Superman Smashes the Klan feels like a retro golden age throwback, so I'd also consider it to be close to a normal DC universe. I'm thinking along the lines of stuff like the highschool AU's and some other stuff. It's not a very easy thing to explain and it's probably subjective.

Which means you should really stop worrying - weird titles like Gotham High are the minority of these titles. I like the experimentation and think these books should exist, but they're not the usual output so far. I think we fans get way, way to skittish about the fringe titles and outliers like they might become the normal books. They won't, history so far suggests more books that feel close to the status quo even if there's no shared continuity.

I generally don't complain about them because even though they don't appeal to me personally, I understand other people might like that kind of stuff and there's other stuff I do care about. But if they were all that was being produced then I would have more of a problem, so I'd hope they'd fill the gap with more OGN's or miniseries taking place in universes that are more on model.

Then you really shouldn't complain. On model stories seem to be the rule not the exception, even without a shared universe. You have nothing to worry about.

Now I'm just imagining Marvel promoting the fact that they still have an actual continuity .

Doesn't matter, continuity or no continuity they won't sell any more comic books than they are really. The direct market is a dead end, as long as they stay there it's just a hobby for the hardcore fans.

I dunno, I feel like they draw enough from the main continuity that it's generally seen as a pretty viable and common IP farm, no matter how well it sells versus the more "prestige" stuff.

I think you are misunderstanding me - I never once said it wasn't viable as an ip farm - it really works just fine as an ip farm. I said that it's not a better ip farm than out of continuity stories. Give or take they're probably about even as ip farm. But the OGNs sell better as books on average. So as equal ip farms it makes sense to go with whatever sells better. Doesn't mean continuity isn't as valid an ip farm.

[Vakanai]

It kinds of depend on how far they're departing into other genre's while diverging from a recognizable DC superhero universe.

When you look at how overwhelmingly Bat heavy Black Label is compared to the main DC line and consider a situation where the main DC line has effectively been retired in favor of Black Label like publishing model as some are theorizing it's not hard to see. There's going to be a lot of Batman regardless but when you consider outside of Superman Year one and Wonder Woman Dead Earth, the rest of Black label has been either Bat related or Vertigo-esque, there would be a reason for concern.

Though frankly I don't think this rumor is accurate at all and I don't see why we're seriously considering it.

Compare that to the YA and Kids books though. Sure there's a lot of Batman and family books, but there's a lot more of other characters too compared to Black Label. Superman Smashes the Klan, Superman of Smallville, a couple of Supersons, Mera, like three or four Wonder Woman books, I think Zatanna has one, I think Constantine even has one. Lois Lane has a cute and funny one. It's been a lot more balanced than Black Label, and I think that the model will look more like that than Black Label.

[Artemisfanboy]

I've thought of something. What if "DC Omniverse" is just a direct replacement for the Black Label line and not the mainline as Bleedingcool is trying to claim?

The rumor was Black Label was going to phased out and eventually discontinued because Pam Lifford didn't like the "Mature Readers"/R-rated association of the line (and dealing with the bad press of the Bat-Penis fiasco). So perhaps DC Omniverse is basically a replacement for Black Label without the Mature Readers/R-Rated /Batpenis stigma? Meanwhile the mainline universe will continued on as normal.

Because I really can't see them abandoning the concept of having a shared universe continuity. It just seems so incredulous to me.

[Frontier]

This actually sounds exciting.

I hope it means that they can revisit some iconic runs.

Do you mind going into specifics?

[bat39]

Honestly, this does seem the way forward.

I think in practice this will be less an 'abandonment' of continuity and more about not being beholden to one 'mainstream' continuity.

It'll be an end to the endless wrangling over whether or not Superman should have a wife, or whether Barry should be the main Flash or Wally. DC will go for a more buffet approach moving forward - something for everyone, with sales being the only real arbiter of what can be put to print and what can't.

I guess this means we could have, say, a Golden Age Superman book ala 'Superman Smashes the Khan' existing alongside a Lois & Clark book. A Batman and Robin book with Bruce and Dick existing alongside a Batman and Robin book with Bruce and Damian.

To a certain extent this buffet approach to continuity is not that far off from what we've had so far. When it comes to Batman in particular, you have a book for every kind of Batman story, including, at one point, stories set in various eras of the past. And that's before you get into OGN's and Elseworlds and Black Label and what-not. What this would do is basically just formalize and expand upon this, and maybe remove the 'special' status that the 'mainstream' continuity-heavy Earth 0 versions of characters have enjoyed so far.

[ducklord]

While I'm a big fan of cool alternate takes on the DC characters, and love seeing them flourish, allow me to grind a few fanboy gears:

1) Inter-title continuity in the "main" DC line is cool & fun, when managed well. It is astonishing how bad DC has become at keeping the basics of their main continuity intact. I'm not talking about esoteric stuff like Bruce Wayne's middle name, I'm talking about larger things like "Was Cyborg (a fairly major DC character) ever a member of the Titans?"
2) The more the greater DC Omniverse crosses over with the main DCU, the worse for both universes.

[Vakanai]

Because I really can't see them abandoning the concept of having a shared universe continuity. It just seems so incredulous to me.

It's only incredulous from a longtime monthly comic direct market fan point of view, which is no longer all that profitable or interesting enough for AT&T. From a moving away from that model to a more bookstore OGN wider audience model it really isn't incredulous at all

I think we have to get used to the idea of the current and long established model just going away and the market looking much more like the YA and Kids lines going forward, with some Black Label type stuff thrown in.

[bat39]

While I'm a big fan of cool alternate takes on the DC characters, and love seeing them flourish, allow me to grind a few fanboy gears:

1) Inter-title continuity in the "main" DC line is cool & fun, when managed well. It is astonishing how bad DC has become at keeping the basics of their main continuity intact. I'm not talking about esoteric stuff like Bruce Wayne's middle name, I'm talking about larger things like "Was Cyborg (a fairly major DC character) ever a member of the Titans?"
2) The more the greater DC Omniverse crosses over with the main DCU, the worse for both universes.

Well think about it...now we can potentially have a New 52 style JL book where Cyborg is part of the Big Seven AND a book where he's a long-standing member of the Titans!

And I guess the idea is we may not necessarily have a 'main' DCU anymore. As in, there will be something resembling it, but it won't be the lynchpin any longer.

[Frontier]

Honestly, this does seem the way forward.

I think in practice this will be less an 'abandonment' of continuity and more about not being beholden to one 'mainstream' continuity.

It'll be an end to the endless wrangling over whether or not Superman should have a wife, or whether Barry should be the main Flash or Wally. DC will go for a more buffet approach moving forward - something for everyone, with sales being the only real arbiter of what can be put to print and what can't.

I guess this means we could have, say, a Golden Age Superman book ala 'Superman Smashes the Khan' existing alongside a Lois & Clark book. A Batman and Robin book with Bruce and Dick existing alongside a Batman and Robin book with Bruce and Damian.

To a certain extent this buffet approach to continuity is not that far off from what we've had so far. When it comes to Batman in particular, you have a book for every kind of Batman story, including, at one point, stories set in various eras of the past. And that's before you get into OGN's and Elseworlds and Black Label and what-not. What this would do is basically just formalize and expand upon this, and maybe remove the 'special' status that the 'mainstream' continuity-heavy Earth 0 versions of characters have enjoyed so far.

To be honest, this just makes me question exactly how this is going to work.

So is everything going to be a limited series or mini? No more ongoing books?

Characters are treated on a writer-by-writer and pitch-by-pitch basis instead of who DC wants to promote? Any GL gets the spotlight when a writer wants them and Barry Allen doesn't have to be The Flash? What sets the standard for the character or do we just get a bunch of different Supermen getting published at the same time? How much title redundancy can we afford?

Almost sounds like a DC free for all .

It's only incredulous from a longtime monthly comic direct market fan point of view, which is no longer all that profitable or interesting enough for AT&T. From a moving away from that model to a more bookstore OGN wider audience model it really isn't incredulous at all

I think we have to get used to the idea of the current and long established model just going away and the market looking much more like the YA and Kids lines going forward, with some Black Label type stuff thrown in.

It still looks incredulous to me just because, even if it doesn't bring in the same amount of sales, from a story perspective I feel like it still has enough to offer that the YA and kid lines don't necessarily do, or even Black Label.

[superduperman]

I think the bigger question here is: Can mainstream DC continuity be fixed and is it worth the hassle to do so or is it simply better to be like Homer with the toaster and just settle for the family with the lizard tongues? I don't envy anyone trying to sort this out. The last 20 years have been a train wreck largely due to mismanagement. I've half jokingly suggested that DC should just go back to continuity circa 1999 and just kind of pretend the last 20 years never happened. There's no way to make everyone happy here. This might not be the most ideal situation but it might also be the only option left. This sounds exactly like something someone outside of comics would come up with as a solution. I totally see AT&T's hand in this. I doubt AT&T wanted a publishing arm to begin with so in order to streamline things, they would just sell regular books and make movies out of those. DC has been playing second fiddle to Marvel for 50 years now. And they still can't seem to catch up. Maybe just not trying to do so is the solution.

[Vakanai]

It still looks incredulous to me just because, even if it doesn't bring in the same amount of sales, from a story perspective I feel like it still has enough to offer that the YA and kid lines don't necessarily do, or even Black Label.

It doesn't matter to AT&T if it still has enough to offer, only that it doesn't sell enough to bother with. It's only real value is as an ip farm, and if you can get an ip farm that works just as well as that has historically done, but has a much wider market that can be more profitable, you go for the most profitable market.

It's not that there's no value left in the direct market and monthly floppies, it's that it's no longer enough for a big corporation that doesn't care about that small pittance. It's all about other media. The books only work for copyright and ip. We're lucky in a way that we'll still get OGNs and one shots. But monthlies, especially printed in paper monthlies, just doesn't hold enough appeal from the business end. We'll still get books, but the market is changing and the Wednesday Warrior is going extinct at some point.

[ducklord]

Well think about it...now we can potentially have a New 52 style JL book where Cyborg is part of the Big Seven AND a book where he's a long-standing member of the Titans!

Which would be peachy-keen fine if DC was going back to the pre-All Star Comics #3 era, when characters and books never interacted with each other.

But I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that that's not what's going to happen. Instead, you're going to get more "Character X is dead in all the Batman books, but is alive and kicking in the Justice League, even thought the Justice League is explicitly referring to recent events in the Batman books" malarkey, or "Three event storylines appear to be happening nearly simultaneously across several titles, they're all making oblique references to each other, but there's no possible way to actually shuffle them together so that they make sense" stuff.

The thing is, it's not impossible to run a fairly tight continuity ship. DC and Marvel used to do it with aplomb back in the 80's and 90's. But in recent years they've just given up.

But hey, if they just want to officially punt, and declare that every title is its own continuity, and that every time a character from another title shows up, any similarities to the character's appearance in the other title are purely coincidental, more power to 'em.