The DC Omniverse – Continuity Changes In 2021

[Vakanai]

I totally see AT&T's hand in this. I doubt AT&T wanted a publishing arm to begin with so in order to streamline things, they would just sell regular books and make movies out of those.

Basically this. This is the future I feel AT&T has decided on. We just have to get used to the new normal.

[Vakanai]

Which would be peachy-keen fine if DC was going back to the pre-All Star Comics #3 era, when characters and books never interacted with each other.

But I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that that's not what's going to happen. Instead, you're going to get more "Character X is dead in all the Batman books, but is alive and kicking in the Justice League, even thought the Justice League is explicitly referring to recent events in the Batman books" malarkey, or "Three event storylines appear to be happening nearly simultaneously across several titles, they're all making oblique references to each other, but there's no possible way to actually shuffle them together so that they make sense" stuff.

The thing is, it's not impossible to run a fairly tight continuity ship. DC and Marvel used to do it with aplomb back in the 80's and 90's. But in recent years they've just given up.

But hey, if they just want to officially punt, and declare that every title is its own continuity, and that every time a character from another title shows up, any similarities to the character's appearance in the other title are purely coincidental, more power to 'em.

I don't think it matters at all. It might take a decade, but the shared continuity books are being phased out for a different model. The books still interacting with each other or not doesn't matter if we're living in the final days of the direct market floppy book tradition.

[superduperman]

Which would be peachy-keen fine if DC was going back to the pre-All Star Comics #3 era, when characters and books never interacted with each other.

But I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that that's not what's going to happen. Instead, you're going to get more "Character X is dead in all the Batman books, but is alive and kicking in the Justice League, even thought the Justice League is explicitly referring to recent events in the Batman books" malarkey, or "Three event storylines appear to be happening nearly simultaneously across several titles, they're all making oblique references to each other, but there's no possible way to actually shuffle them together so that they make sense" stuff.

The thing is, it's not impossible to run a fairly tight continuity ship. DC and Marvel used to do it with aplomb back in the 80's and 90's. But in recent years they've just given up.

But hey, if they just want to officially punt, and declare that every title is its own continuity, and that every time a character from another title shows up, any similarities to the character's appearance in the other title are purely coincidental, more power to 'em.

The problem isn't DC, it's the people who OWN DC. I doubt the new management cares all that much about the DM. If the long term plan is to truly phase out the monthly books, how much are they going to care about maintaining a tight ship? The editors job at this point is to just make sure there are no spelling errors. As for phasing out BL, yeah, it might not be the smartest business move but, again, the people running the show aren't comic people, they're tech business people. If the person you have to answer to is a mother with kids and her knowledge of comics extends to the cartoons those kids watch, how well do you think you're going to do trying to convince her to keep a publishing arm aimed at a specific adult audience? To us, this sounds insane. To someone who just inherited a comic book company they didn't really want, maintaining a bunch of publishing wings that are losing money for a niche audience, no mater how well made they are, is a bad business move. We're back to the place being run by people who think of Adam West when they picture Batman.

[Vakanai]

We're back to the place being run by people who think of Adam West when they picture Batman.

After the Burton movies and the Nolan trilogy not bloody likely. But the rest of your post is spot on.

[Tzigone]

Which would be peachy-keen fine if DC was going back to the pre-All Star Comics #3 era, when characters and books never interacted with each other.

I do think, if DC ever decides to go with new characters and OGNs, non-crossover-universes is the way to go. Better for a casual audience.

The thing is, it's not impossible to run a fairly tight continuity ship. DC and Marvel used to do it with aplomb back in the 80's and 90's. But in recent years they've just given up.

I do think continuity was far better then, than now, but still some issues. But even by "No Man's Land", the shared continuity was problematic. Probably before, but that one always gets to me. I recall reading about (and thinking it so cool) back in the 60s that when Galactus (I think, been a long time since I read about this) invaded, they trapped the Avengers under a dome or something so the FF could fight him and they had a reason not to be there. That doesn't work in NML - there are just too many heroes. They came up with an excuse, but they (and Batman) ended up looking quite bad because of it. Similar more recently when Gotham taken over again. Stories taking place over longer time-period contributes to the problem there, too. Other heroes are busy or don't hear about in four hours - that's understandable. In four months - not buying it.

I don't think it matters at all. It might take a decade, but the shared continuity books are being phased out for a different model. The books still interacting with each other or not doesn't matter if we're living in the final days of the direct market floppy book tradition.

Probably true. And with continuity being what it is, and Bat-domination and the grey bad guys and "edgy" heroes, I can't even say I care all that much. A little sad for the end of era, but I mostly like older stuff, anyway. I'm a continuity geek, and like a long, consistent history, but there are fewer of me out there than there are people who just want to read a good story. And even I have issues with it taking six months or more to tell a single story. And this medium isn't mainstream in the US. I don't know that comic books could have survived without going direct market long ago, but one they did, they ceased to be something every kid read. Plusses and minuses to growing up with your audience and keeping that same audience, and now we're on the minus end, I think.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I'll be in my corner hoping this actually takes place. Any and every problem I've had with DC's stories might not be a problem anymore lol.

Gotta wait and see, though.

[Sacred Knight]

It's only incredulous from a longtime monthly comic direct market fan point of view, which is no longer all that profitable or interesting enough for AT&T. From a moving away from that model to a more bookstore OGN wider audience model it really isn't incredulous at all

I think we have to get used to the idea of the current and long established model just going away and the market looking much more like the YA and Kids lines going forward, with some Black Label type stuff thrown in.

Yeah, that's really the disconnect with the long-time, hardcore comic fan. And I don't mean that as an insult by any means. Its just all we've known for so long. Its hard to imagine a new model. But what has to be taken into account is that DC is struggling mightily and have been for a long time. Yes the idea of them completely shutting down has always been an overreaction, but that doesn't mean their state has been good. Its been consistently bad with only gimmicks providing brief upticks. Its just not going to be sustainable forever. Now is the time for something drastic to change in that model, imo. Despite the how used to it the established fanbase is.

I'm not saying this is automatically the right answer or that it'll work. Hell, we're not even sure if our interpretations of what this means is right in the first place. But the general idea of trying something new, I think this is definitely the time to at least try.

[seismic-2]

I don't think it matters at all. It might take a decade, but the shared continuity books are being phased out for a different model. The books still interacting with each other or not doesn't matter if we're living in the final days of the direct market floppy book tradition.

Precisely. Whether Robin is Dick Grayson or Damien Wayne, and whether Clark and Lois are single or married or married with a kid, matters a great deal when you are publishing Batman, Superman, Detective, and Action floppies every month, and each one has to tie in with the previous month and the next month. and sometimes they have to tie in with one another. These things matter not at all when your product is a bunch of stand-along graphic novels. You can have a shelf-full of Batman graphic novels all with different Robins, and you can put the graphic novel with a married Clark and Lois right next to the one where they are just co-workers and Lois is shacked up with Jonathan Carroll. It's all equally "true". What counts (from the readers' side) is whether they're intriguing stories with captivating art, and (from DC's side) whether they make enough money to justify creating them, and (from Warners' / ATT's side) whether they yield interesting characters and plots that can be turned into a TV or movie production that really makes money. No one high in the corporation has any interest in supporting the Direct Market for monthly funny books, per se. In a couple of decades the whole concept of the floppies will seem quaint, a hobby of an earlier era that has long since passed.

[NaVi]

dc and his stupid experiments, they change their minds once a month. I understand that the writer cannot follow all the characters, but there really is no one who follows the canon and creates a guide that the writer can follow. If it were up to me to decide the new path, what I would do would be to place each family in a different universe, the universe of superman, the universe of batman the universe of ww etc, these universe would only collide in great events.

[cgh]

This, this right here. The people complaining that a no or loose continuity approach is a terrible idea for a shared universe aren't wrong, but they're missing the point - the monthly comic shared ongoing universe is slowly coming to an end. Continuity doesn't matter. The monthly books are chump change, at this point they're only in existence to serve as an ip farm for other media. And OGNs and YA novels and out of continuity miniseries can do the same thing but also reach a larger and younger market.

Didn't we have this exact conversation back in the DCYou days? This thread is some serious deja vu. I always thought DCYou was a good direction in terms of looser continuity and more freedom from editorial control.

[Vakanai]

Didn't we have this exact conversation back in the DCYou days? This thread is some serious deja vu. I always thought DCYou was a good direction in terms of looser continuity and more freedom from editorial control.

Not exactly the same conversation - there wasn't such a focus on moving out of the direct market and moving onto OGNs and away from monthlies. DCyou maybe was trying to see if by changing their approach they could keep this model running. Now it seems like they just don't care because they know they're leaving this market model behind.

Least that's my guess.

[superduperman]

There was also the fact that Didio and the old guard was still in charge back then. They aren't anymore. These are new people with a new model.

[Lee Stone]

Do you mind going into specifics?

Like if a writer wanted to extend the Wolfman Titans history or the Levitz Legion.
Or just spend a few years set within those runs.

Maybe revisit the original Suicide Squad or the Challengers without having to update them to the modern day.

Or perhaps do some Batman stories from before Robin without having to kill off the current Robin to do it.

Or if someone wants to do something like Alex Ross’s Justice, featuring the satellite era JLA as an ongoing series...

This approach is more like what I would expect from a real book publisher.

[Menacer]

Like if a writer wanted to extend the Wolfman Titans history or the Levitz Legion.
Or just spend a few years set within those runs.

Maybe revisit the original Suicide Squad or the Challengers without having to update them to the modern day.

Or perhaps do some Batman stories from before Robin without having to kill off the current Robin to do it.

Or if someone wants to do something like Alex Ross’s Justice, featuring the satellite era JLA as an ongoing series...

This approach is more like what I would expect from a real book publisher.

This exactly.

Writers can reference a few key past stories to establish what history this new book is set in. And run with it


I mean this is really what they do already just with added pressure to keep stories they dont want included congruent..

[Sacred Knight]

Thing with DCYou...it didn't do a looser continuity model. At least not with the main books. All that ended up being were major status quo shifts. The main difference here, if they go through with something like we're thinking, is that everyone is game. It wouldn't mean that only select new books utilizing new or obscure characters wouldn't worry about canon. Rather nothing would. Including the usual suspects.

Unless of course...its not, lol. Again with the problem with interpretation of the words.