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  1. #421

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    It's normal for new nations to adopt nationalist ideals. While nationalism has a harmful history, it stopped plenty of young countries breaking up during civil wars. I just see Krakoa getting into a space war after S.W.O.R.D.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  2. #422
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Yeah X-Force really needs to figure out what it's going to do with Beast because right now he's bringing down the whole country.
    It really is. Every time they announce some new thing they are going to do, I'm like 'Great, now the casually genocidal country wants to be space cops. Oh look, the genocide country is forming ANOTHER clandestine black ops squad with plausible deniability." When everything everyone is doing is all for Krakoa, when Krakoa does something bad it kind of drags everything else down. At least for me. Genocide is just kind of a big deal. And they did it for such stupid reasons.

    Krakoa is a weird middleground with Communist, Fascist and Socialist aspects. Governments are generally complicated, so I hesitate to be too strict with the talk. But there doesn't seem to be any private property among the citizens, and the funding almost entirely comes from Xavier and the Hellfire groups. So no private ownership outside of the government, which controls the means of production (the island itself), would be Communist. But the government is mostly for show, with the real power being Moira, Xavier, and Magneto. So that's kind of fascist.

  3. #423

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Except of course that's not the case of Krakoa- opposition isn't forcibly suppressed
    Krakoa forcibly suppresses any motion it doesn't like. The QC suppressed Sabretooth with retroactive application of laws. Moira explicitly forbids any mutant precogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    it's not more hierarchical than any nation on Earth, and in fact, less than many, there is no dictatorial leader
    There's the QC aristocrats, several of which are also of the Übermensch Omega class.
    Moira is the secret dictator, and Krakoa has ultimate veto power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    it's a post-scarcity society, so modern economic models don't apply, since the entire science of economics is based on resources being limited.
    Magneto literally told us his economic strategy of outbuying all opposition in the world with the extremely rare, exclusive only to Krakoa flowers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    I would add that fascist countries are militaristic and Krakoa, while most people have a long experience of fighting, it's the exact opposite- the entire military is made of 4 people, they aren't even in the Parliament or have any involvement in civilian decisions, and the government was actively trying to shut down the closest thing it has to a military branch- the X-men.
    The X-Men/X-Force/NM's/Marauders/Krakoans are currently engaged in, or have just recently concluded, multiple overt and covert operations across the world and in other galaxies\dimensions. They destroyed a whole country for daring to research plant tech. They have threatened, and in some cases telepathically manipulated, other heads of state.

    They don't have a conventional military because their entire population is essentially weaponized, many of them being equivalent to or exceeding weapons of mass destruction.

    They are expanding their borders and population at a breakneck speed(A more than quintupled their population as a concession of his war with Amenth); with colonies on the moon, Mars, the Savage Land, Otherworld/Avalon, and installed puppet rulers for the Shi'Ar and Brood empires. And we're talking in a matter of several months.

    Nevermind the fact that several actual Nazis are/were in the highest levels of power, that Xavier records everyone's thoughts on a constant basis, and the state even takes ownership of everyone's genetic material, under the auspices of one of those aforementioned Nazis.

    The third Reich wishes it could have accomplished a fraction of this.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 11-28-2020 at 08:20 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I can't be the only person who thinks that this X-Line has been bloated for a little while?
    The X-Line has been bloated since the late 80s.

  5. #425
    Astonishing Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    The Third Reich comparison may be overblown a bit but I do agree that the argument that Krakoas flaws are "just as bad as any other country" is not at all what is portrayed

  6. #426
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The X-Line has been bloated since the late 80s.
    So it's an old problem - I still don't like it.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    So it's an old problem - I still don't like it.
    well that's a problem that happens if your popular, have a lot of characters and there's enough fans to support other books being made. unless sales really decline, there's gonna be more books coming out.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
    well that's a problem that happens if your popular, have a lot of characters and there's enough fans to support other books being made. unless sales really decline, there's gonna be more books coming out.
    Yup The line isn't bloated ,People don't have to buy every book. The purpose of so many books is to provide different types and tones of books from different audiences so people can pick up what they like. AND they are no repeat characters in books with the exception of Wolverine and X-force, And Cable and Sword. All the X-books provide unique characters you can't find other books and most books so far are unique in the teams mission that they don't really overlap with each other.

    I don't understand why people worry about books they aren't going to pick up. The market will dictate what stays around I remember when Deadpool was on fire I believe Marvel had about 2 or 3 books with him and the market went nope that is much and very popular character able to carry solo concept got stuff canceled. People wallet will determine what is too much. Buy what you like and just worry about that.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-28-2020 at 10:29 PM.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    The market will dictate what stays around I remember when Deadpool was on fire I believe Marvel had about 2 or 3 books with him and the market went nope that is much and very popular character able to carry solo concept got stuff canceled. People wallet will determine what is too much.
    yeah remember we used to have Fallen Angels but it got cancelled.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
    yeah remember we used to have Fallen Angels but it got cancelled.
    Fallen angels wasn't even a real cancel imo, It still had good numbers and writer had something on another project that was more important for him. No doubt it would have been cancel at some point it was the weakest of all the books but it was by my guess on the market it would have made to 12 issues with decent numbers. Excalibur, Hellions and Cable I see having a similar path downwards but line keeps adding something that can be seen as replacement like Sword or X-men Legends. They are going to keep throw out stuff and let what falls off do that. If Cable goes then some fans will just pick up Sword. Much in the same way if you like Fallen Angels, You got still follow Kwannon in Hellions.

    Things aren't really bloated, They know stuff will fall out and be canceled what makes more sense cancel stuff and have no products a for customer to buy or have a little "too much" understanding that all won't survive so there is something always for customer around?

  11. #431
    Astonishing Member Exodus's Avatar
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    interesting discussion here by the way. Thanks for posting!

    I recently was wondering if Krakoa also resembles or is at least loosely inspired by ultra-orthodox Hasidic jewish communities. I do not know a lot about it. But there seems something similar about certain aspects of the faith and Krakoa, for example: Being holocaust survivors, trying to undo the horror of the past and all the lives lost in Europe by creating many many many descendants, staying in more isolated "island" communities and staying distanced from larger section of society, etc. etc.

    Hickman also started his run in Israel with Magneto.
    Last edited by Exodus; 11-28-2020 at 11:40 PM.

  12. #432
    Mighty Member warzon's Avatar
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    i haven't collected any of the X books.i feel 4 Team Books should be enough 1 book out each week and maybe 4 solo Titles as well my choices will be as follow.

    The Uncanny X Men=Phoenix.Sabra.Dazzler.Shadowcat.Cyclops.Coloss us.Bishop.Banshee
    X Force=Storm.Rogue.Psylocke.Magneto.Wolverine.Warpa th.Arch Angel.Gambit
    X Factor=Polaris.Frenzy.Daytripper.Firestar.Iceman.H avok.Nightcrawler.Multiple Man
    X Men Academy for all the younger Mutants Taught by Former New Mutants members
    and
    Wolverine
    Deadpool
    Bishop
    Domino for solo Titles.

  13. #433
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    interesting discussion here by the way. Thanks for posting!

    I recently was wondering if Krakoa also resembles or is at least loosely inspired by ultra-orthodox Hasidic jewish communities. I do not know a lot about it. But there seems something similar about certain aspects of the faith and Krakoa, for example: Being holocaust survivors, trying to undo the horror of the past and all the lives lost in Europe by creating many many many descendants, staying in more isolated "island" communities and staying distanced from larger section of society, etc. etc.

    Hickman also started his run in Israel with Magneto.
    The many, many parallels with Israel are hella problematic. HoXPoX literally ended with Xavier declaring 'we will replace you', which is a rallying cry for antisemites all over the world. So if Krakoa is Israel, the message ends up being 'the racists are right about Jews'.

    And then in the same issue that emphasized Kitty's faith also had her cremated, which is a huge taboo. So it came across like they researched the 'cool' Jewish things while ignoring the actual thoughts and beliefs.

  14. #434
    Astonishing Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    The many, many parallels with Israel are hella problematic. HoXPoX literally ended with Xavier declaring 'we will replace you', which is a rallying cry for antisemites all over the world. So if Krakoa is Israel, the message ends up being 'the racists are right about Jews'.

    And then in the same issue that emphasized Kitty's faith also had her cremated, which is a huge taboo. So it came across like they researched the 'cool' Jewish things while ignoring the actual thoughts and beliefs.
    thank you! I also felt a little uncomfortable about this!! In particular what Magneto said in certain moments during Hickman's run because he became an anti-Semitic cliché...in particular the issue in Davos where he describes Krakoa's ultimate plan to control the world's economy...

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Fallen angels wasn't even a real cancel imo, It still had good numbers and writer had something on another project that was more important for him. No doubt it would have been cancel at some point it was the weakest of all the books but it was by my guess on the market it would have made to 12 issues with decent numbers. Excalibur, Hellions and Cable I see having a similar path downwards but line keeps adding something that can be seen as replacement like Sword or X-men Legends. They are going to keep throw out stuff and let what falls off do that. If Cable goes then some fans will just pick up Sword. Much in the same way if you like Fallen Angels, You got still follow Kwannon in Hellions.

    Things aren't really bloated, They know stuff will fall out and be canceled what makes more sense cancel stuff and have no products a for customer to buy or have a little "too much" understanding that all won't survive so there is something always for customer around?
    Solo books don't sell well except for Wolverine for some reason.

    I think there should be a maximum of two X-team titles per week making up 8 titles in a month. That's because the cast has grown so much, different focus on each team.

    X-Men: Council member and Scott, Jean, Cable, Rachel family
    Marauders: Kitty, Storm's team
    X-Force: Wolverine and Beast team
    New Mutants: Magik team
    Excalibur: Betsy's team
    X-Factor: Polaris team,
    Hellions: Havok's team


    The only veterans unaccounted for are Banshee and Nightcrawler and Madrox, they should belong to a team .

    I don't know why Marvel is giving so much attention to C-graders like Kwannon while ignoring the veterans.
    Last edited by ericng; 11-28-2020 at 11:58 PM.

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