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  1. #436
    Incredible Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericng View Post
    Solo books don't sell well except for Wolverine for some reason.

    I think there should be a maximum of two X-team titles per week making up 8 titles in a month. That's because the cast has grown so much, different focus on each team.

    X-Men: Council member and Scott, Jean, Cable, Rachel family
    Marauders: Kitty, Storm's team
    X-Force: Wolverine and Beast team
    New Mutants: Magik team
    Excalibur: Betsy's team
    X-Factor: Polaris and Multiple man team,
    Hellions: Havok's team


    The only veteran unaccounted for are Banshee and Nightcrawler, they should have their own team . I don't know why Marvel is giving so much attention to C-graders like Kwannon while ignoring the veterans.

    This may be sacrilegious but I find Kwannon way more interesting than Betsy these days


    As an aside how are we this far into this run and ppl still don't realize we are deliberately not supposed to like some of the things Krakoa is doing... not to condescend but it couldn't be more obvious in the writing. We just had Cyclops verbally reprimanding the entire council with his boy scout logic and it actually making sense, its pretty clear that the writers want you to agree with most/all of what hes saying
    Last edited by Toonstrack; 11-29-2020 at 12:00 AM.

  2. #437
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericng View Post

    I don't know why Marvel is giving so much attention to C-graders like Kwannon while ignoring the veterans.
    Because X-fan base isn't just people who grew up on Original 5 and X-men Blue/Gold/animated team. They are literally groups of people who don't give a crap about chunk those of character in-spite of being X-men fans. If you started reading around Morrison/Aaron Wolverine and X-men/Bendis era. Why would you care about characters like Banshee or Nightcrawler?

    Older fans swear that comic world revolves around their thought process something which I am guilty of times BUT other characters carry significance for example in last 15 years we have seen more Blink than Banshee. Blink has anchored exiles, Blink has been seen in spot duty in cartoons and movies, Blink has been on tv show. But Banshee or Nightcrawler need show up over Blink. And the obvious response going to be those characters have a fanbase of course you keep sticking in the main book where they get to be used important stories and they are going to build a fanbase. The one time Blink was used in main important story with the popular characters she was as popular as any X-men character(that is why she showed up in Exiles). The point is they are other characters who can bring interesting perspective to X-men and will never grow until given a chance to be used in important stories.

    I love Nightcrawler but they stay telling some sort of religious connected story with Nightcrawler .And honestly it has been done before and he isn't bring anything new to table, Dust could be used because she can bring that same devoted religious story but from a different person and perspective. A lot of C lister can be more interesting I like Bishop and Cable but John Greycrow has been more interesting than two of them in Hellions. He is in the same bad ass guy with gun archetype. Angel showed up in Empyre X-men book and was the same boring bland angel. While Sunspot has been great in his appearances, If you need a wealthy socialite handsome male character I rather see Sunspot used. X-men has too many interesting characters just run back the generic old faithful stand by characters plus many of those characters are white and straight comics is doing its hardest to reflect the real world with more diversity.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-29-2020 at 01:00 AM.

  3. #438
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Because X-fan base isn't just people who grew up on Original 5 and X-men Blue/Gold/animated team. They are literally groups of people who don't give a crap about chunk those of character in-spite of being X-men fans. If you started reading around Morrison/Aaron Wolverine and X-men/Bendis era. Why would you care about characters like Banshee or Nightcrawler?

    Older fans swear that comic world revolves around their thought process something which I am guilty of times BUT other characters carry significance for example in last 15 years we have seen more Blink than Banshee. Blink has anchored exiles, Blink has been seen in spot duty in cartoons and movies, Blink has been on tv show. But Banshee or Nightcrawler need show up over Blink. And the obvious response going to be those characters have a fanbase of course you keep sticking in the main book where they get to be used important stories and they are going to build a fanbase. The one time Blink was used in main important story with the popular characters she was as popular as any X-men character(that is why she showed up in Exiles). The point is they are other characters who can bring interesting perspective to X-men and will never grow until given a chance to be used in important stories.

    I love Nightcrawler but they stay telling some sort of religious connected story with Nightcrawler .And honestly it has been done before and he isn't bring anything new to table, Dust could be used because she can bring that same devoted religious story but from a different person and perspective. A lot of C lister can be more interesting I like Bishop and Cable but John Greycrow has been more interesting than two of them in Hellions. He is in the same bad ass guy with gun archetype. Angel showed up in Empyre X-men book and was the same boring bland angel. While Sunspot has been great in his appearances, If you need a wealthy socialite handsome male character I rather see Sunspot used. X-men has too many interesting characters just run back the generic old faithful stand by characters plus many of those characters are white and straight comics is doing its hardest to reflect the real world with more diversity.
    Another problem is the limited thinking that goes behind assembeling a team. On one level you have the popularity aspect and the iconic thnking. Then you have this D&D/MMORPG thinking where a team has specific roles that needs to be filled. Witch leads to the Captain Marvel problem. In interviews and posts Avengers was limited to no other energy wielders/manipulators because Carol was on the team and she filled that role. Everyone had to have a specific set of powers or skills that no other character infringes on. A team like X-force worked even though their powers or mindset where sort of similair. So a team could focus 3 claws characters and 3 energy types. Every possible team could work.

    I'm neutral on Wolverine and Cyclops. I grew up reading about them. Some strong stories that I still like. I just don't want to see them in comics and keep thinking: A so they are here witch means that others can't be here. Witch is the message that the X-men line has been hitting us with for many years. A focus on some characters to a detteriment for many others.

    Then there is another aspect of the problem. Team books that aren't really team books. In Excalibur it looks like Rogue, Gambit and Jubilee are doing good. Appearing in a ongoing. Being used on covers and so on. But when you start reading the comic you soon realise that they are an afterthought. There to sell comics by brand recognition. It's a cynical and depressing move that hurts the line. Either let the creative team pick characters they want to use or force them to use them and then follow through with that plan. Not this empty move that we get now.

  4. #439
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    This may be sacrilegious but I find Kwannon way more interesting than Betsy these days
    Same. I’m much more interested in her than Betsy, whether she’s Captain Britain or otherwise.

  5. #440
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    The Third Reich comparison may be overblown a bit but I do agree that the argument that Krakoas flaws are "just as bad as any other country" is not at all what is portrayed
    They are better than the USA, which is where 99% of superheroes live.

  6. #441
    Astonishing Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    They are better than the USA, which is where 99% of superheroes live.
    To clarify, I mean that Krakoas problems aren't just "the same kind that other nations deal with", since no other nation has accumulated so much power so quickly.

  7. #442
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    To clarify, I mean that Krakoas problems aren't just "the same kind that other nations deal with", since no other nation has accumulated so much power so quickly.
    True, but what we're seeing is essentially a process other nations have passed through, only on fast-forward- and with superpowers.

  8. #443
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    True, but what we're seeing is essentially a process other nations have passed through, only on fast-forward- and with superpowers.
    Yeah, super-powers are important.

    No other nation has had to deal with problems like "mass suicides that can collapse the national resurrection system."

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    They are better than the USA, which is where 99% of superheroes live.
    The counter argument is that most American Superheroes do not in any way engage in the bureaucracy and black ops of the Nation.

    There's a lot of Heroes that have plausible deniability of America that isn't as true for Krakoa.

  10. #445
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    The counter argument is that most American Superheroes do not in any way engage in the bureaucracy and black ops of the Nation.

    There's a lot of Heroes that have plausible deniability of America that isn't as true for Krakoa.
    If they were born yesterday they would have plausible deniability

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    If they were born yesterday they would have plausible deniability
    This line of thinking only works, if they're an active part of the government procedures of a nation. Otherwise, you can condemn every citizen of basically every country.

    And I'm sorry, but that's really god damn stupid.


    Like I'm not gonna fault green kid or Explodey Boy for what krakoa does to Terra verde.

    Just like I'm not gonna hold Iraq against Spider-man of all god damn people.

  12. #447
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    If Nate grey is on the island why he is not living with Jean and Scott

  13. #448
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    This line of thinking only works, if they're an active part of the government procedures of a nation. Otherwise, you can condemn every citizen of basically every country.

    And I'm sorry, but that's really god damn stupid.


    Like I'm not gonna fault green kid or Explodey Boy for what krakoa does to Terra verde.

    Just like I'm not gonna hold Iraq against Spider-man of all god damn people.
    I know it's idiocy, but it's the same idiocy that I read all the time from the same people about Krakoa.

    "They are all villains because they allow bad things to happen on the island." is the level of discourse here.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I know it's idiocy, but it's the same idiocy that I read all the time from the same people about Krakoa.

    "They are all villains because they allow bad things to happen on the island." is the level of discourse here.
    And it's not the level of discourse of this conversation you're having with me, the person you're talking to.

    So knock it off.

  15. #450
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    And it's not the level of discourse of this conversation you're having with me, the person you're talking to.

    So knock it off.
    Okay. X-Force have done very questionable things but that's the "Mutant CIA" point. However, I keep saying that we don't know if the people of Terra Verde are alive or not, the ending is ambiguous.

    Everyone involved in the Terra Verde thing is disgusted with Beast, just like what he plans to do with Colossus. At no point does the narrative say "Beast is right". Beast has been an ******* for a long time, long before X-Force.

    Beast is clearly depicted as a villainous figure who is acting the wrong way.

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