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  1. #406
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Definition of socialism

    noun

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

  2. #407
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Yeah X-Force really needs to figure out what it's going to do with Beast because right now he's bringing down the whole country.

  3. #408
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Definition of socialism

    noun

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    I would agree more with this for Krakoa: a semblance of democracy, a planned organization, generalized surveillance in the name of security, a population more interested by living comfly than in politics… More “Brave New World” than fascism… It lacks the glorification of strength (it’s a bit there…), the outside enemy (bit there too…), the desire to expand (not quite absent). Well, except few people, the mutants are rather peaceful…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  4. #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Definition of socialism

    noun

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    Krakoa leans far more towards fascism than socialism.

    1) Moira is the secret dictator, who keeps even Charles and Magnus in the dark. The QC is a farce ultimately.

    2) Krakoa is the land and the means of production for the sole economic and political token(the flowers). The mutants of Krakoa essentially own NOTHING. Krakoa only indulges them to the extent that it does because it is literally FEEDING on them.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  5. #410
    Spectacular Member Chessboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Honestly, the problem is that his run needs an Illuminati/New Avengers equivalent with the Quiet Council that grounds the entire line. We need the complex and amoral storytelling that comes with the rulers of a nation.

    With that book, we could get more with the QC characters, and touch base with Orchid and a new Illuminati. We get to see all the back deals and sacrifices that have to be made.

    Like, what if Reed, Doom, Namor, T'Challa, Strange, Nighthawk (Supreme Power) and Stark created a new Illuminati. Xavier, Magneto and Moira would definitely have an issue with not being invited. That would be a glorious book to have Hickman write. Give him two artists, and two colorists, so that he can give us 40 pages a month.
    This is an excellent idea, and frankly something that is right up Hickman's alley. Hopefully we get something like that with Moira's book, if that's still on the table.

  6. #411
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    I can't be the only person who thinks that this X-Line has been bloated for a little while?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #412
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I can't be the only person who thinks that this X-Line has been bloated for a little while?
    You definitely aren't alone there. And we're getting SWORD and a long-teased Moira book eventually. And possibly Children of the Atom, if it ever materializes for the 4 people interested in the 'mystery'

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I can't be the only person who thinks that this X-Line has been bloated for a little while?
    Yes. Specially that some books are really bad. Cble and X-factor are serious candidates to be cancelled by bad sales

  9. #414
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    You definitely aren't alone there. And we're getting SWORD and a long-teased Moira book eventually. And possibly Children of the Atom, if it ever materializes for the 4 people interested in the 'mystery'
    I just checked and there are currently nine series being published, with another three on the way. That's plainly too many in my book.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  10. #415
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Definition of socialism

    noun

    a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
    The second definition is:

    a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    The second definition is:

    a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    Not always true, socialist doutrine is very flexible on it. Marx said that the workers should own the means of production
    Last edited by baxer; 11-28-2020 at 06:55 PM.

  12. #417
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Definition of fascism

    1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    Except of course that's not the case of Krakoa- opposition isn't forcibly suppressed, it's not more hierarchical than any nation on Earth, and in fact, less than many, there is no dictatorial leader, it doesn't exalt it's nation any more than other nation does, and it's a post-scarcity society, so modern economic models don't apply, since the entire science of economics is based on resources being limited. I would add that fascist countries are militaristic and Krakoa, while most people have a long experience of fighting, it's the exact opposite- the entire military is made of 4 people, they aren't even in the Parliament or have any involvement in civilian decisions, and the government was actively trying to shut down the closest thing it has to a military branch- the X-men.

    But, hey, what's the Internet with Goodwin Law or some of it's variants appearing?

  13. #418
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    The second definition is:

    a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    Seems about right. Other than the Hellfire Trading Company which runs the black market economy (because even socialist societies have black market economies), there doesn’t seem to be private ownership of anything. It’s all for the good of the collective and controlled by the state.

  14. #419
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Seems about right. Other than the Hellfire Trading Company which runs the black market economy (because even socialist societies have black market economies), there doesn’t seem to be private ownership of anything. It’s all for the good of the collective and controlled by the state.
    Krakoa is certainly way closer to be a socialist/communist state than a fascist one, but it's not quite- no one is really barred from having money or all the land they want or invest in the stock market- just go through a gate. If anything, they'll be happy to help you, so mutants can have even more power. Plus, there's really no workers ownership of the means of production because...there's no means of production, there's not even much work to be done.

  15. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Krakoa is certainly way closer to be a socialist/communist state than a fascist one, but it's not quite- no one is really barred from having money or all the land they want or invest in the stock market- just go through a gate. If anything, they'll be happy to help you, so mutants can have even more power. Plus, there's really no workers ownership of the means of production because...there's no means of production, there's not even much work to be done.
    Ethno state i a lot closer to fascism than Communism, also just a ew random people governing

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