Unpopular opinion: Hickman's X-Men is going downhill

[ZephyrSurf]

Okay. X-Force have done very questionable things but that's the "Mutant CIA" point. However, I keep saying that we don't know if the people of Terra Verde are alive or not, the ending is ambiguous.

Everyone involved in the Terra Verde thing is disgusted with Beast, just like what he plans to do with Colossus. At no point does the narrative say "Beast is right". Beast has been an ******* for a long time, long before X-Force.

Beast is clearly depicted as a villainous figure who is acting the wrong way.

It's not just X-force though.

It's also Shaw with madripoor

And Apocalypse's war crimes all through out Otherworld. (Somebody's gonna need to explain those externals one day.)

And Sinister being Sinister


The foundation is blood and bone, and it's only been a year. And outside groups who couldn't possibly know what's going on, like the new mutants, or the regular members of the marauders. There's a lot of blood on the hands of people and a lack of accountability being held by folks who could stop them.

Like it's messed up that Shaw can do what he does, and Emma and Kate can't take him to task in the open.

[Glio]

It's not just X-force though.

It's also Shaw with madripoor

And Apocalypse's war crimes all through out Otherworld. (Somebody's gonna need to explain those externals one day.)

And Sinister being Sinister


The foundation is blood and bone, and it's only been a year. And outside groups who couldn't possibly know what's going on, like the new mutants, or the regular members of the marauders. There's a lot of blood on the hands of people and a lack of accountability being held by folks who could stop them.

Like it's messed up that Shaw can do what he does, and Emma and Kate can't take him to task in the open.

Nothing Apocalypse did in Otherworld can be considered a war crime except experimenting with Morgan Le Fay.

Shaw is evil and the heroic characters want to kick him out of the Council.

Sinister is evil but Sinister is the only reason that hundreds of thousands of mutants have been able to be resurrected.

"There's a lot of blood on the hands of people and a lack of accountability being held by folks who could stop them." can be said of any hero who could overthrow a president of a country that commits war crimes.

Would it have been right for Captain America or Iron Man to overthrow George Bush? Some will say yes, some will say no, but in any case the same criteria should apply.

[ZephyrSurf]

Nothing Apocalypse did in Otherworld can be considered a war crime except experimenting with Morgan Le Fay.

Shaw is evil and the heroic characters want to kick him out of the Council.

Sinister is evil but Sinister is the only reason that hundreds of thousands of mutants have been able to be resurrected.

"There's a lot of blood on the hands of people and a lack of accountability being held by folks who could stop them." can be said of any hero who could overthrow a president of a country that commits war crimes.

Would it have been right for Captain America or Iron Man to overthrow George Bush? Some will say yes, some will say no, but in any case the same criteria should apply.

I mean, I'd very much say America and iron-man are in very similar positions. Only real difference is that before his Shield promotion, Cap had nowhere near the means or pull to even enact that.

Also "no war crimes, except this very explicit war crime." and the Warwolve slaughter would 100% fall under warcrime territory.

[Glio]

I mean, I'd very much say America and iron-man are in very similar positions. Only real difference is that before his Shield promotion, Cap had nowhere near the means or pull to even enact that.

Also "no war crimes, except this very explicit war crime." and the Warwolve slaughter would 100% fall under warcrime territory.

Warwolves were in a zoo and are kept as pets. That would be in any case "extermination of animals in danger of extinction". And in any case they are not even native to this reality, they were an invasive species.

Of course America's heroes have the power to overthrow the government if they want, but it would have to be through a violent act. Same in Krakoa. When Cap took advantage of his position at the head of SHIELD to overthrow a government, that was Secret Empire and it was an evil Steve Rogers.

And the Morgan Le Fay thing is a war crime, yes, but it's one that Apocalypse did in secret. Heroes cannot punish him for something they don't know he has done.

[nandes]

The way the Warwolves were depicted was basically as Brood 2.0. They were now mindless beings who only lived to feed and wear their victims' skin. Should we have been outraged at the X-Men killing Brood back in the 80's?

[Su_Whisterfield]

The way the Warwolves were depicted was basically as Brood 2.0. They were now mindless beings who only lived to feed and wear their victims' skin. Should we have been outraged at the X-Men killing Brood back in the 80's?

The treatment of the Warwolves was the point when I stopped buying Excalibur, why bother using previous characters if you are going to rewrite them to the point where they are so different, they’re not even the same species? The Warwolves, dangerous as they were, had been played for laughs in the original series, but they had internally consistency which the new series squandered.

[Glio]

Maybe having them locked up in a zoo made them degenerate mentally. After all, they were something like wolves created by Mojo through genetic engineering or something like that, I don't quite remember.

In any case, it cannot be considered a war crime to kill them.

[baxer]

The treatment of the Warwolves was the point when I stopped buying Excalibur, why bother using previous characters if you are going to rewrite them to the point where they are so different, they’re not even the same species? The Warwolves, dangerous as they were, had been played for laughs in the original series, but they had internally consistency which the new series squandered.

That was really in bd taste. They killed all warwolves and them left one behind and gave it to rachel raise. The tonedeafness of this exclibur run

[LordUltimus]

Nothing Apocalypse did in Otherworld can be considered a war crime except experimenting with Morgan Le Fay.

"Nothing Apocalypse did can be considered a war crime except for the war crime he committed."

Really, dude?

[yogaflame]

"Nothing Apocalypse did can be considered a war crime except for the war crime he committed."

Really, dude?

That made me laugh too! 'He only vivisceted his prisoner for dark magical research purposes... so what?'

[silvercover]

well on the topic of the X-books we have currently ongoing, I can see Marauders and Cable ending at some point, maybe even soon, at least before the others I believe. I think the Marauders group will still exist but I don't see there being much big plots left for them since at some point they should have gotten all/most in the places that are keeping their mutants and Shaw seems to be dealt with soon. Cable unless the original comes back, I don't think it'll be that hot for most readers and he seems to be likely to play a prominent role for SWORD.

meanwhile the books I can see that are going to last for quite a long time, maybe even until Hickman's run is over, are X-men, Excalibur, X-force, Hellions and X-factor. X-men for obvious reasons, flagship book and can do pretty much anything and go in any direction. If it weren't for the event id have said Excalibur would be ending soon too after they'll confront Saturnyne but now we've got 7 Otherworld realms to be checking out. X-force probably isn't gonna run out of dealing with different groups of humans trying to mess with Krakoa even after the current one is dealt with, along with this kind of book usually lasting. Hellions is turning out to be quite a hit and can really shuffle around its members at some point and has a lot of potential development for the characters here. X-factor is gonna be relevant for having to deal with constant mutant deaths and the Mojo arc we seem to be in has me belief they have potential to be also going through Otherworld.

then for Wolverine and New Mutants, those books I can see going for quite a while but also end soon. Wolverine has his popularity but his fame has waned a bit and there's the X-force book to do some of his stories/arcs. New Mutants I can see them just ending to replace for another book, like maybe a New X-men or Generation X, to deal with a different group of teen mutants.