Unpopular opinion: Hickman's X-Men is going downhill

[Force de Phenix]

Don't try to take away legitimate critique with this generalizing non-sense. X-Men fans are not sheep....

Most of them are.

No it is very much true, Simple because everyone has different priorities. But the complaining is always to harsh, The praise is always too great.

[...] I understand that fans aren't reviewers so we don't have to take to measure approached in talking about things so we get to be super emotional and negative.[...]

Because liking a character is like being in a tribe or on a team, and fans are biased because they want their team to win when in reality, there is no game being played.

[Devaishwarya]

Based on the ending of XoS today and what is planned to come...I would happily say it's still moving uphill.
I'm eager for the December books to see how things transpire going forward for the Krakoans.

[Frobisher]

Based on the ending of XoS today and what is planned to come...I would happily say it's still moving uphill.
I'm eager for the December books to see how things transpire going forward for the Krakoans.

Reign Of X! Bring it.

[TooFlyToFail]

Honestly, the problem is that his run needs an Illuminati/New Avengers equivalent with the Quiet Council that grounds the entire line. We need the complex and amoral storytelling that comes with the rulers of a nation.

With that book, we could get more with the QC characters, and touch base with Orchid and a new Illuminati. We get to see all the back deals and sacrifices that have to be made.

Like, what if Reed, Doom, Namor, T'Challa, Strange, Nighthawk (Supreme Power) and Stark created a new Illuminati. Xavier, Magneto and Moira would definitely have an issue with not being invited. That would be a glorious book to have Hickman write. Give him two artists, and two colorists, so that he can give us 40 pages a month.

[TooFlyToFail]

Based on the ending of XoS today and what is planned to come...I would happily say it's still moving uphill.
I'm eager for the December books to see how things transpire going forward for the Krakoans.

Hype means nothing. Let's wait for the execution.

[Exodus]

Honestly, the problem is that his run needs an Illuminati/New Avengers equivalent with the Quiet Council that grounds the entire line. We need the complex and amoral storytelling that comes with the rulers of a nation.

With that book, we could get more with the QC characters, and touch base with Orchid and a new Illuminati. We get to see all the back deals and sacrifices that have to be made.

Like, what if Reed, Doom, Namor, T'Challa, Strange, Nighthawk (Supreme Power) and Stark created a new Illuminati. Xavier, Magneto and Moira would definitely have an issue with not being invited. That would be a glorious book to have Hickman write. Give him two artists, and two colorists, so that he can give us 40 pages a month.

Isn't his entire run a story how the illuminati took over the mutant world? Xavier, Magneto, and Moira basically are the illuminati of the X-Men world who went public while still scheming in the background hiding under helmets and in secret bunkers.

[TooFlyToFail]

I’ll be honest at first the idea of Krakoa and this mutant utopia thing sounded like such a big deal but one thing that is really bothering me is this event feels very small. I thought we were going to see interactions and interpersonal stuff that I wanted to see. But I feel the focus has been on plot a lot.

My other issue is this event feels like a manga storyline. much like “manga is doing better than us because we aren’t being creative so let’s use a story tropes that fit for a different medium more than a comic book”

I really loved the idea of krakoa but I haven’t loved the actual characters or details.

They didn't even do the tournament arc as good as manga like Naruto, Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho or Hunter x Hunter. I'm not just talking fights either, but also the characters development and skill progression/ presentation.

[TooFlyToFail]

Isn't his entire run a story how the illuminati took over the mutant world? Xavier, Magneto, and Moira basically are the illuminati of the X-Men world who went public while still scheming in the background hiding under helmets and in secret bunkers.

Yeah, but we barely see them in great amounts. A book about the QC and Moira vs the Illuminati and Orchid behind the scenes, like New Avengers is just that type of book this run needs. You know it'd be fire if Hickman got to do it. Pay Nick Dragotta and Ryan Bodenheim to tag-team on the book for 40+ pages a month, with both doing a different plot.

[ZephyrSurf]

There is zero need to rehash the illuminati. That's some hack nonsense. A dedicated book to QC, sure I'd be down for that. That doesn't mean they need the illuminati. That's stupid and completely undermines the VERY story Hickman/every writer that uses the illuminati was telling with them before.

There's cyclical writing and there's dumb things, and that's squarely in the dumb category.

[TooFlyToFail]

There is zero need to rehash the illuminati. That's some hack nonsense. A dedicated book to QC, sure I'd be down for that. That doesn't mean they need the illuminati. That's stupid and completely undermines the VERY story Hickman/every writer that uses the illuminati was telling with them before.

There's cyclical writing and there's dumb things, and that's squarely in the dumb category.

Why would the Illuminati not fit this scenario? It seems like their goal is total domination, in order to keep the humans from evolving too much. That's the whole point of getting the world hooked on their drugs; keeping them under their control. It's also why they want all the Omega-level mutants, to consolidate power so that no one threatens them.

Now they just added millions of demon mutants, and at least doubled their country in size. Then there's the Brood, and their coming attempt of cosmic conquest in S.W.O.R.D.

All this, and they're not trying to be friendly at all.

There's no way people like Strange, Reed, Doom, Namor, T'Challa, Stark and others aren't noticing this. The Illuminati will come into play. It'd be ridiculous if they didn't, considering the major power plays of Krakoa.

But regardless of all that, yeah a QC book is needed.

[ZephyrSurf]

Why would the Illuminati not fit this scenario? It seems like their goal is total domination, in order to keep the humans from evolving too much. That's the whole point of getting the world hooked on their drugs; keeping them under their control. It's also why they want all the Omega-level mutants, to consolidate power so that no one threatens them.

Now they just added millions of demon mutants, and at least doubled their country in size. Then there's the Brood, and their coming attempt of cosmic conquest in S.W.O.R.D.

All this, and they're not trying to be friendly at all.

There's no way people like Strange, Reed, Doom, Namor, T'Challa, Stark and others aren't noticing this. The Illuminati will come into play. It'd be ridiculous if they didn't, considering the major power plays of Krakoa.

But regardless of all that, yeah a QC book is needed.

The illuminati wouldn't fit because the point of the Illuminati is that the Illuminati was a bad idea of people who thought they were better and come to the realization that they very much are not. Reinstating the illuminati is essentially going "Hey, this parable? This parable that i spent years constructing then deconstructing to drive home why it's important? **** this parable, X-men need antagonists."


It's hackery.

[TooFlyToFail]

The illuminati wouldn't fit because the point of the Illuminati is that the Illuminati was a bad idea of people who thought they were better and come to the realization that they very much are not. Reinstating the illuminati is essentially going "Hey, this parable? This parable that i spent years constructing then deconstructing to drive home why it's important? **** this parable, X-men need antagonists."


It's hackery.

Not really, because they'd still be not entirely in the wrong. You'd still have people like Namor and Doom involved (and maybe other characters, like Nighthawk and the Orchid organization), and in their conflict with Krakoa their victory could spell extinction for the mutant species, in the long run.

This definitely continues the moral conundrums of such a group. Do they let the mutants take over their world, and maybe the galaxy, or do they stop them and risk that species survival.

This is very much a scenario where neither side is the antagonist, but could both end up doing horrific things...and the Krakoans would still hold the sympathy card over the Illuminati, even if they've got valid concerns.

[Gigantor]

Isn't his entire run a story how the illuminati took over the mutant world? Xavier, Magneto, and Moira basically are the illuminati of the X-Men world who went public while still scheming in the background hiding under helmets and in secret bunkers.

Problem is that metaphor is not connecting with the audience. Krakoa is evil and based on evil plans by evil people who are so desperate they will resort to anything for victory. But because krakoa appears good you see people all over this board and Twitter saying how it’s the best and most good thing ever. So if you make an evil country lead by villains but nobody gets what you did? Wtf did you actually make?

[baxer]

Problem is that metaphor is not connecting with the audience. Krakoa is evil and based on evil plans by evil people who are so desperate they will resort to anything for victory. But because krakoa appears good you see people all over this board and Twitter saying how it’s the best and most good thing ever. So if you make an evil country lead by villains but nobody gets what you did? Wtf did you actually make?

Something so shady would hardly connect. They are lying and hiding the truth from everyone else, that is not a solid base for a new country.
We still don't know the Moira or Xavier endgames

[nandes]

The assumption that readers who enjoy the actual status quo don't understand nuance is just completely off-base and insulting