Unpopular opinion: Hickman's X-Men is going downhill

[TheCape]

I can inderstand why some would want to see more Cyclops vs Shark.

[federicodettofred]

Yeah, who wants new concepts or novel characters, Hickman should be telling the same stories that we have read a thousand times with the same characters that we have read a thousand times, like X-Men Gold.

Sarcasm aside (10 comments about the same thing), the problem with X-Men (as a series) is that it feels like a soap opera. Tell me what happened in 14 issues. I'm all for character development and narration, but you can't make a issue about Cyclops, then about Wolverine, then about Jean Grey and literally nothing happens except for convoluted dialogues and giant plans that lead nowhere.

[federicodettofred]

It's better than what came before, but that's not saying much.

Exactly what I mean.

[Glio]

Sarcasm aside (10 comments about the same thing), the problem with X-Men (as a series) is that it feels like a soap opera. Tell me what happened in 14 issues. I'm all for character development and narration, but you can't make a issue about Cyclops, then about Wolverine, then about Jean Grey and literally nothing happens except for convoluted dialogues and giant plans that lead nowhere.

The X-Men have ALWAYS been a soap opera, I don't know if you say it as a good thing or a bad thing.

[cranger]

The X-Men have ALWAYS been a soap opera, I don't know if you say it as a good thing or a bad thing.

I do find that particular criticism odd as Hickman's run has not felt soapy at all. Some bad TV show writing moments does not make something soapy.

[Glio]

I do find that particular criticism odd as Hickman's run has not felt soapy at all. Some bad TV show writing moments does not make something soapy.

Yeah, if you compare it precisely to Claremont, Claremont is much more soap opera than Hickman. And I don't mean it as a bad thing. Things like Madelyne Pryor are 100% soap opera.

[Omega Alpha]

I've said before, but the problem with Hickman's run is that it should have been two books, just like his Fantastic Four and Avengers runs, and I think he knows it, but didn't want the high work load that comes with it.

[Glio]

I've said before, but the problem with Hickman's run is that it should have been two books, just like his Fantastic Four and Avengers runs, and I think he knows it, but didn't want the high work load that comes with it.

Counterpoint: Two books are not enough at all with all the mutants that already exist. And when you do a status quo change like Krakoa, you require all series on board. Two books are not enough to explore everything about Krakoa.

[Omega Alpha]

Counterpoint: Two books are not enough at all with all the mutants that already exist. And when you do a status quo change like Krakoa, you require all series on board. Two books are not enough to explore everything about Krakoa.

Sure, but you could have one book more focused on the X-men proper, and another a "Krakoa stories" type, or more focused on the characters in the Council.

As it stands, you have a book that starts with 3-4 issues with the lead being Cyclops, focusing on him and the characters closer to him, then you jump for a story about Mystique that has no connection to what came before and isn't touched after, then you have a few issues in which he appears, then all the sudden it's one issue focused on Magneto, another in Vulcan, then Apocalypse, etc. There's no connective issue with what comes before, which makes it harder to read or care about- and will probably look worse on trade.

[TheCape]

I've said before, but the problem with Hickman's run is that it should have been two books, just like his Fantastic Four and Avengers runs, and I think he knows it, but didn't want the high work load that comes with it.

Eh, to be honest the meat of his story was in New Avengers, his Avengers was a bit more dull, thought it did have some cool moments.

[Glio]

Eh, to be honest the meat of his story was in New Avengers, his Avengers was a bit more dull, thought it did have some cool moments.

And the Incursions only started to affect other books in Secret Wars, it was something that for years was self-contained. You can't do the same with Krakoa because it's a huge status quo change. The rest of the Avengers titles (Uncanny Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers AI, Young Avengers...) had nothing to do with New Avengers because there was no need.

Krakoa is different.

[Wolverine12]

And the Incursions only started to affect other books in Secret Wars, it was something that for years was self-contained. You can't do the same with Krakoa because it's a huge status quo change. The rest of the Avengers titles (Uncanny Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers AI, Young Avengers...) had nothing to do with New Avengers because there was no need.

Krakoa is different.

I agree with this but the problem in Avengers was a much bigger problem than Krakoa becoming a nation. One of these obliterate a universe the other makes some heads of state unhappy.

Now having read HoX/PoX I think the X-Men issue will eventually grander in scale but also will be contained so to speak. By that I mean we only see it in one or two Xbooks because no one else knows about it.

[Glio]

I agree with this but the problem in Avengers was a much bigger problem than Krakoa becoming a nation. One of these obliterate a universe the other makes some heads of state unhappy.

Now having read HoX/PoX I think the X-Men issue will eventually grander in scale but also will be contained so to speak. By that I mean we only see it in one or two Xbooks because no one else knows about it.

Yeah, but what I mean is that the Incursions, although larger in scale than Krakoa, did not have such great repercussions in the Marvel Universe (until Secret Wars) because they were kept secret.

Like, you could write a story in which Otto Octavius controlled Spider-man's body and was not affected by the Incursions. But you couldn't write a mutant series right now and ignore the fact that Krakoa exists.

Marvel could not have endured three years in which ALL SERIES have to reference the fact that the universe was dying, it would be impossible to write all series with that in mind. But you can write all the mutant series in the context that Krakoa exists.

[baxer]

I do find that particular criticism odd as Hickman's run has not felt soapy at all. Some bad TV show writing moments does not make something soapy.

Hickman run feels like a pretentious prestige tv

[Wolverine12]

Hickman run feels like a pretentious prestige tv

What does that mean? Like what kind of Tv show are you comparing it to?