View Poll Results: What is your ideal number for the Bat Family?

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  • Just Batman - no sidekicks

    5 4.07%
  • + 1 (Robin)

    4 3.25%
  • +1-2 (Robin & Batgirl)

    10 8.13%
  • +1-3 (Nightwing, Batgirl & Robin)

    21 17.07%
  • +1-5 (Nightwing, Oracle, Robin, Huntress & Batgirl?)

    15 12.20%
  • +1-7 (Nightwing, Oracle, Robin, Huntress, Batgirl, Red Hood & Batwoman?)

    5 4.07%
  • +1-9 (Nightwing, Oracle, Robin, Huntress, Batgirl, Red Hood, Batwoman, Red Robin & Black Bat?)

    20 16.26%
  • +1-19 (Nightwing, Oracle, Robin, Huntress, Batgirl, Red Hood, Batwoman, Red Robin & Incorporated)

    9 7.32%
  • +1-99 (Nightwing, Oracle, Robin, Huntress, Man-Bat, Bat-Cow & every other Bat Family ever created)

    34 27.64%
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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Default Batfamily Explosion!

    What's your thoughts on the increasing ranks in the Batfamily? There's a lot of characters:
    Batman
    Dick Grayson
    Batgirl
    Red Robin
    Red Hood
    Batwoman
    Hawkfire
    Batwing
    Huntress - Helena Wayne... If Earth 2 meets it's World's End, will she find herself back on Prime Earth?

    Upcoming:
    Spoiler
    Robin - ?
    Bluebird
    Lark - ?
    Julia Pennyworth - will she take a crimefighting role?

    And this doesn't even cover the potential of Cassandra Cain showing up in the future or Helena Bertinelli joining Dick Grayson in some costumed crimefighting once Grayson runs its course. The ranks keep growing and I have to admit that I love it. I was never a fan of the 90s deal of cutting back on the characters so there was just Batman, Nightwing and Robin, to "make Batman seem special." I like a big cast of costumes and the soap opera drama, if they're well developed and given a chance to shine in their own way. Batman Eternal has made me appreciate the mix of different characters showing up and interacting together. Instead of repetitive, I find it intriguing as they are all a different shade of Batman thematically.

    Gotham rooftops are busy, and I'm all the happier for it.

  2. #2
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    In theory i have no problem with it, but in practice ive come to develop a problem with it because the characters started to take away from one another. Nightwing became a casualty of this, it was basically bastardized.

    So i guess i have no problem with it as long as the the members are distinct, and are do unique things. Unfortunately so far that hasn't really been the case. Though they are making improvements of late.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-17-2014 at 05:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Reader of Stuff Hilden B. Lade's Avatar
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    I suppose now is the best time to bring back the Batman Family book.

  4. #4
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilden B. Lade View Post
    I suppose now is the best time to bring back the Batman Family book.
    Isn't that what Eternal basically is though.

  5. #5
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    I do like my batfamily rather large, but tbh it just feels too SOON for all of them, you know?

    Three years in the New 52 and I'm not even sure what's with the relationships between a lot of the core batfam members yet here come 3+ more.

  6. #6
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    I think we need a Gotham Knights style book so we can see the separate generations of the Batfamily interact with each other in the New 52. Let's show some of the old timers their Babs-Dick-Bruce team, then the Nightwing-Red Robin team ups, then the Red Hood vs Nightwing/Red Robin times.

    I do think we should have a large Batfamily, but they need books in which to feature. Tim is in one team book and two weeklies, and I'd say that most of his fans (including myself) still think he needs a solo. Otherwise, you end up with suspiciously similar characters taking each other's stuff, like Tim suddenly evolving into a Nightwing ripoff for Teen Titans, or Harper Rowe doing the Stephanie Brown subplot form the 90s while the actual Stephanie Brown is doing her own thing.

  7. #7
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    What would he be doing in this solo?
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-17-2014 at 08:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Is The Best Monk The Red Monk's Avatar
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    Too fucking many of them.

    At this rate, the Batman family is going to become the non-powered version of the X-Men.

    And most of them are not all that interesting anyway. As Godlike13 said, most of them, in order to be made something other than utterly useless, unneeded additions to the already bloated crime-fighting cast, have to given aspects of other existing characters (Nightwing suffered from this), or butcher existing characters for pointless, teenage rebellion drama (Batman suffered from this). No, just no. Fuck every single one of those parasites. They are not needed, they are not wanted.

    If editorial wants to do their damn job right, they should put a prohibition on the creation of anymore crime-fighting allies for Batman.
    "If you're afraid - don't do it - and if you're doing it - don't be afraid!" - Genghis Khan

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    What's your thoughts on the increasing ranks in the Batfamily? There's a lot of characters:
    Batman
    Dick Grayson
    Batgirl
    Red Robin
    Red Hood
    Batwoman
    Hawkfire
    Batwing
    Huntress - Helena Wayne... If Earth 2 meets it's World's End, will she find herself back on Prime Earth?

    Upcoming:
    Spoiler
    Robin - ?
    Bluebird
    Lark - ?
    Julia Pennyworth - will she take a crimefighting role?

    And this doesn't even cover the potential of Cassandra Cain showing up in the future or Helena Bertinelli joining Dick Grayson in some costumed crimefighting once Grayson runs its course. The ranks keep growing and I have to admit that I love it. I was never a fan of the 90s deal of cutting back on the characters so there was just Batman, Nightwing and Robin, to "make Batman seem special." I like a big cast of costumes and the soap opera drama, if they're well developed and given a chance to shine in their own way. Batman Eternal has made me appreciate the mix of different characters showing up and interacting together. Instead of repetitive, I find it intriguing as they are all a different shade of Batman thematically.

    Gotham rooftops are busy, and I'm all the happier for it.
    I think that a single Robin joining half the adventures while he is training with Young Justice or whatever. I also don't mind if there is an Ace in the cave, occasionally going outside, and Jason Bard doing investigations for Batman. That should be the entire Bat team.

    Now, operating as dependable outsiders with shared resources, I like Batgirl and Nightwing.

    A number of characters are called "batfamily" but are actually independent vigilantes operating in the same city. They don't share resources:
    Azrael
    Huntress
    Batmite (Who is mostly Batman's less evil Mxyzptlk).
    Spoiler

    And we have the Batmen of the World, who are Batman themed heroes from other places. I think Green Arrow and Speedy should be added to this crowd.

    I'd prefer if Batwoman didn't exist or was retired. The original Jason was a great character, but at this point he is better off dead. I never liked Cass.

    I really hate how fanfic-ish people treat them as a large cute family. It's lame. This is why they retired Batwoman the first time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    Too fucking many of them.

    At this rate, the Batman family is going to become the non-powered version of the X-Men.

    And most of them are not all that interesting anyway. As Godlike13 said, most of them, in order to be made something other than utterly useless, unneeded additions to the already bloated crime-fighting cast, have to given aspects of other existing characters (Nightwing suffered from this), or butcher existing characters for pointless, teenage rebellion drama (Batman suffered from this). No, just no. Fuck every single one of those parasites. They are not needed, they are not wanted.

    If editorial wants to do their damn job right, they should put a prohibition on the creation of anymore crime-fighting allies for Batman.
    the wanted part is highly debatable

  11. #11
    Metahumane MykeHavoc's Avatar
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    My only complaint is I preferred right before the reboot, with Steph as Batgirl and Babs as Oracle and we still had Damian and 2 Batmen. Was a killer lineup.

  12. #12
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    I wouldn't even mind if they stayed in some respective book.

    E.g. Red Robin getting a book and Spoiler and Bluebird being a large part of his cast. Cass appearing in Batgirl. Helena being in Grayson/Nightwing or BoP. Etc.

    Keep them separate and have their own roles in their books and I wouldn't have as big a problem.

    Or.

    Shove all the new kiddies into a new BoP where others like Batgirl and Black Canary train and work with them. Notice how all but one of the new characters are girls. Maybe it'll work better than the last run.

    But yeah redundancy in a huge problem. That's why I prefer Babs as Oracle, and that's maybe why Dick was given a really strange direction.

  13. #13
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    At this rate, the Batman family is going to become the non-powered version of the X-Men.
    I was going to say that, but as a good thing... DC needs a strong "family" in its mythos. Something to tie various characters together, besides just being members of the Justice League. Street level comics have their following. Batman is huge, currently. Makes sense to expand on both together.

    Sure pretty much all of the characters are redundant, but it actually kinda makes sense to have so many heroes protect a single crime-ridden metropolis. It makes Batgod a little less godlike knowing that Gotham is actually protected by a dozen(ish?) vigilantes and not just a single man who is somehow a perfect physical specimen w/ just ~4 hours of sleep a day who is a master martial artist, detective, scientist, historian, sociologist, psychologist, and architect all while running a billion-dollar corporation, making public appearances, dating numerous women, and...god what else can he do?
    Comics were definitely happier, breezier and more confident in their own strengths before Hollywood and the Internet turned the business of writing superhero stories into the production of low budget storyboards or, worse, into conformist, fruitless attempts to impress or entertain a small group of people who appear to hate comics and their creators. -- Grant Morrison, 2008

    Sometimes things are special because they don't last. -- Zhi, Tales from the Loop

  14. #14
    Is The Best Monk The Red Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    I was going to say that, but as a good thing... DC needs a strong "family" in its mythos. Something to tie various characters together, besides just being members of the Justice League. Street level comics have their following. Batman is huge, currently. Makes sense to expand on both together.

    Sure pretty much all of the characters are redundant, but it actually kinda makes sense to have so many heroes protect a single crime-ridden metropolis. It makes Batgod a little less godlike knowing that Gotham is actually protected by a dozen(ish?) vigilantes and not just a single man who is somehow a perfect physical specimen w/ just ~4 hours of sleep a day who is a master martial artist, detective, scientist, historian, sociologist, psychologist, and architect all while running a billion-dollar corporation, making public appearances, dating numerous women, and...god what else can he do?
    DC "needs" no such thing. They already have the Marvel family, and the Superman family, both of which are more "families" than the Bat-Family. If DC wants to capitalize on that, use them. Heck, the Marvel family could use some love. There's also a difference between a superhero "family" and a bunch of redundant vigilantes all tied to Batman at the hip. Half of them have absolutely no reason to exist, and no compelling relationship to Batman.

    Bat-God is Batman punking out the entire Justice League without any preparation beforehand by making them all into idiots. Bat-God is not what you describe above. Those are all simple staples of superhero comics, and if you take issue with them, that might be a sign that you need to quit comics. Story-wise, having 25+ vigilantes in one goddamn city simply takes away from each of them, especially if more than half of them have absolutely nothing compelling about their characters, except sucking off other, more superior characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by kidstandout View Post
    the wanted part is highly debatable
    Did anyone ask for Bluebird? Carrie Kelly? Talon? Batwing? Helena Wayne? Hawkfire? Lark? Julie Pennyworth? ANOTHER Robin? Hell, half of the Batman fanbase has been clamoring for Tim Drake to get offed already, since he's just taking up space at this point.

    NO-ONE has been asking for these new or past characters. They just get shoved onto us, because the Bat-Writers don't know when to stop, and the Bat-Editors won't do their damn jobs, and put their foot down on this shit.
    Last edited by The Red Monk; 08-18-2014 at 12:05 AM.
    "If you're afraid - don't do it - and if you're doing it - don't be afraid!" - Genghis Khan

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Monk View Post
    DC "needs" no such thing. They already have the Marvel family, and the Superman family, both of which are more "families" than the Bat-Family. If DC wants to capitalize on that, use them. Heck, the Marvel family could use some love. There's also a difference between a superhero "family" and a bunch of redundant vigilantes all tied to Batman at the hip. Half of them have absolutely no reason to exist, and no compelling relationship to Batman.

    Bat-God is Batman punking out the entire Justice League without any preparation beforehand by making them all into idiots. Bat-God is not what you describe above. Those are all simple staples of superhero comics, and if you take issue with them, that might be a sign that you need to quit comics. Story-wise, having 25+ vigilantes in one goddamn city simply takes away from each of them, especially if more than half of them have absolutely nothing compelling about their characters, except sucking off other, more superior characters.



    Did anyone ask for Bluebird? Carrie Kelly? Talon? Batwing? Helena Wayne? Hawkfire? Lark? Julie Pennyworth? ANOTHER Robin? Hell, half of the Batman fanbase has been clamoring for Tim Drake to get offed already, since he's just taking up space at this point.

    NO-ONE has been asking for these new or past characters. They just get shoved onto us, because the Bat-Writers don't know when to stop, and the Bat-Editors won't do their damn jobs, and put their foot down on this shit.
    didn't know i was talking to the rep for the entire fanbase.

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