Which superheroes would actually be the most powerful in the DCU realistically.

[Superfan90]

When Flash...supposedly human in terms of durability...hits supposedly near invulnerable beings and doesn’t disintegrate his hand it’s pretty illogical.

My own feeling is that when Flash is written as more powerful than Superman (defining “powerful” as who would win in an all out fight) both characters are being mis-written....but (of course) DC has been doing that for a number of years.

He really isn't. Even the supposedly "OP" Flash Wally West stated just recently that fighting Superman is suicide.

[Killerbee911]

Comics are a fantasy medium. Applying realism never works.

The point that has consistent gone over your head, Nobody is taking about realism we are talking about consistent portrayal, If flash is shown running and evading at mach speed in his books, Then shows up in Justice League or Batman book and people who have no business touching him can hit him .We don't take that seriously because we have seen consistently in other books that he is faster.

MM and others don't get consistent portrayals because of Superman and others are the ones who get to save the day, I am not even complaining that shouldn't happen I have no problem with companies focus on characters who have proven to sell books more BUT we understand through consistent showing in other places that certain characters are better than what they appear to be when they show up around the big guns who sell books. People like Martian Manhunter or Captain Atom perform way above levels that doesn't happen they when show up in a story with Superman.When the "Okay these superheroes always have to be spotlight is removed from story" we see a bunch of heroes get to perform better than main setting.

Comic books have a internal logic but anyway I am done because that internal logic only works when you want it applied to your favorite character.

[Superfan90]

The point that has consistent gone over your head, Nobody is taking about realism we are talking about consistent portrayal, If flash is shown running and evading at mach speed in his books, Then shows up in Justice League or Batman book and people who have no business touching him can hit him .We don't take that seriously because we have seen consistently in other books that he is faster.

MM and others don't get consistent portrayals because of Superman and others are the ones who get to save the day, I am not even complaining that shouldn't happen I have no problem with companies focus on characters who have proven to sell books more BUT we understand through consistent showing in other places that certain characters are better than what they appear to be when they show up around the big guns who sell books. People like Martian Manhunter or Captain Atom perform way above levels that doesn't happen they when show up in a story with Superman.When the "Okay these superheroes always have to be spotlight is removed from story" we see a bunch of heroes get to perform better than main setting.

Comic books have a internal logic but anyway I am done because that internal logic only works when you want it applied to your favorite character.

Quite unironically Captain Atom and J'onn have their best feats in Justice League books.

Their own books hardly ever show them that powerful.

[Agent Z]

Quite unironically Captain Atom and J'onn have their best feats in Justice League books.

Their own books hardly ever show them that powerful.

What feats has Captain Atom had in a Justice League book?

[Superfan90]

What feats has Captain Atom had in a Justice League book?

He actually defeated Major Force for the first time in Justice League task force. Major Force beat him in his own book.

[The Darknight Detective]

What actually is shown to happen, even if it's inconsistent with logic, is the only thing that matters. Even words (i.e. Supergirl is stronger than Superman!) have to take second place to deeds.

[lemonpeace]

What actually is shown to happen, even if it's inconsistent with logic, is the only thing that matters. Even words (i.e. Supergirl is stronger than Superman!) have to take second place to deeds.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that, it's a problem of where it's being shown and who gets to have more showings vs logical consistency. LOGICALLY J'onn has powers beyond Superman's capabilities, we've seen him perform feats next to and at Superman's level, we've seen him do things beyond Superman, Superman has said Martian Manhunter is stronger, but Superman is allowed more showings due to branding; often performing inconsistent feats of powers outside of his usual ability. Similar story with Captain Atom, they have the feats (even Supergirl fought harder than Superman in the same story they make that statement IIRC) but they're easily overshadowed in a way that (free of plot contrivances/convience) doesn't logically make sense

[The Darknight Detective]

I don't think anyone is arguing against that, it's a problem of where it's being shown and who gets to have more showings vs logical consistency. LOGICALLY J'onn has powers beyond Superman's capabilities, we've seen him perform feats next to and at Superman's level, we've seen him do things beyond Superman, Superman has said Martian Manhunter is stronger, but Superman is allowed more showings due to branding; often performing inconsistent feats of powers outside of his usual ability. Similar story with Captain Atom, they have the feats (even Supergirl fought harder than Superman in the same story they make that statement IIRC) but they're easily overshadowed in a way that (free of plot contrivances/convience) doesn't logically make sense

That's what I'm saying. Superman says MM is stronger, but in the end, he really isn't. Whatever the reason (since we're talking about fictional characters, nothing is carved in stone anyway), it is what it is.

[Superfan90]

I don't think anyone is arguing against that, it's a problem of where it's being shown and who gets to have more showings vs logical consistency. LOGICALLY J'onn has powers beyond Superman's capabilities, we've seen him perform feats next to and at Superman's level, we've seen him do things beyond Superman, Superman has said Martian Manhunter is stronger, but Superman is allowed more showings due to branding; often performing inconsistent feats of powers outside of his usual ability. Similar story with Captain Atom, they have the feats (even Supergirl fought harder than Superman in the same story they make that statement IIRC) but they're easily overshadowed in a way that (free of plot contrivances/convience) doesn't logically make sense

I'm curious, what feats did J'onn perform that are beyond Superman and where did Superman say that J'onn is stronger?

Everything is brand value in fiction.

[Sandy Hausler]

Firestorm's transmutation powers

Right and Element Lad of the Legion, too.

[Ra-El]

The point that has consistent gone over your head, Nobody is taking about realism we are talking about consistent portrayal, If flash is shown running and evading at mach speed in his books, Then shows up in Justice League or Batman book and people who have no business touching him can hit him .We don't take that seriously because we have seen consistently in other books that he is faster.

MM and others don't get consistent portrayals because of Superman and others are the ones who get to save the day, I am not even complaining that shouldn't happen I have no problem with companies focus on characters who have proven to sell books more BUT we understand through consistent showing in other places that certain characters are better than what they appear to be when they show up around the big guns who sell books. People like Martian Manhunter or Captain Atom perform way above levels that doesn't happen they when show up in a story with Superman.When the "Okay these superheroes always have to be spotlight is removed from story" we see a bunch of heroes get to perform better than main setting.

Comic books have a internal logic but anyway I am done because that internal logic only works when you want it applied to your favorite character.

As a Superman fan, I've defended the idea of taking him alway from the JL several times.

His worst portrayals often happen in the Justice League books and when he cameos in other characters books. Is in a Batman and Superman book that is written that Supergirl is stronger than him, is a Justice League book where just being around magic makes him weaker, etc.

And it goes beyond that, Superman is there taking a spot that does nothing to him, but it would help a character like Martian Manhunter or Captain Atom. They probably will take his place as the first ones to be taken down to show how the bad guy is powerful, but it would still be a place where they could have developtment that they wouldn't otherwise, since they rarely got a solo book.