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  1. #1

    Default Luke Cage VS Ironfist

    They are having a spar and thus not aiming to kill.

    Inspired by MCU Cage VS MCU Danny. Danny was more skilled and hit hard enough to hurt cage, but I feel like Cage post power-up would win anyway.

    R1) Composite Cage and Ironfist (comic, cartoon, live action)

    R2) 616

    R3) MCU

  2. #2
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    616-wise, I still feel like Danny’s helicarrier feat would mess up Cage something good.

    Luke isn’t landing a hit on Danny anytime he’s awake, and I don’t think he's strong enough to thunderclap properly, so it’s going to be Danny landing AoEs and big hits until Luke falls over.

  3. #3
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Agreed with Beadle. Danny's hitting power with the Iron Fist should be sufficient to KO Luke, especially since he's going to be landing hit after hit after hit wherever he wants without Luke being able to stop him.

    MCU is a different story. I don't think Danny has the oomph to take Cage out, he seems to have a definitive limit on using the Iron Fist, and he's no bullet-timer (unless we're using end-of-series, I Have Iron Fist Pistols Danny, ugh). Cage will eventually get his mitts on Danny, and then it's over.
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  4. #4
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    For 616, actually, we can be more explicit and say that:

    Danny has feats for one-shotting Luke, after all of Luke's powercreep. He did it during the Devil of Hell's Kitchen arc, for one, hitting him so hard that he was worried that he might have killed Luke by accident.

    Danny has feats for one-shotting guys TOUGHER than Luke, like Giant-Man'd up Thing.

    And, as you state, oh great Duckster, Luke will never hit a non-sleeping Danny. Danny is also most definitely fast enough to trivially blitz Luke.

    So yeah, 616, Danny annihilates the guy.

    For MCU, well, there are two things that bear mentioning:

    1. If it's end-of-show Danny, it seems that he's mastered... something. But he's definitely a very high-end bullet-timer with his qi guns.

    2. If it's not, it depends on whether Danny is CIS-infected or not. Danny remembering all of his displayed abilities is way too fast for Luke to hit, and hits hard enough to hurt the guy (as we've seen). Buuuuuuuuut... Netflix Danny is near-Rhino level in CIS it seems.
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  5. #5
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    For 616, actually, we can be more explicit and say that:

    Danny has feats for one-shotting Luke, after all of Luke's powercreep. He did it during the Devil of Hell's Kitchen arc, for one, hitting him so hard that he was worried that he might have killed Luke by accident.

    Danny has feats for one-shotting guys TOUGHER than Luke, like Giant-Man'd up Thing.

    And, as you state, oh great Duckster, Luke will never hit a non-sleeping Danny. Danny is also most definitely fast enough to trivially blitz Luke.

    So yeah, 616, Danny annihilates the guy.

    For MCU, well, there are two things that bear mentioning:

    1. If it's end-of-show Danny, it seems that he's mastered... something. But he's definitely a very high-end bullet-timer with his qi guns.
    The question at that point becomes 'What can Danny do with the guns?'

    We don't know. We know they cut bullets out of the air, but that's all. Which...is honestly garbage compared to Luke's durability, so 'this' Danny isn't winning either. Based on his feats, he unloads a ton of bullets on Luke which do pretty much nothing. After that? He's lost the Iron Fist and isn't hurting Luke if he hits him all day.

    Basically we don't know if what he can do is confined to pistols.

    2. If it's not, it depends on whether Danny is CIS-infected or not. Danny remembering all of his displayed abilities is way too fast for Luke to hit, and hits hard enough to hurt the guy (as we've seen). Buuuuuuuuut... Netflix Danny is near-Rhino level in CIS it seems.
    He hurts Luke, and almost KO's himself. This is not a strategy he wants to repeat, as Danny is so messed up he's crawling on the floor, incapable of pulling his leg from the grip of a severely messed-up Matt, and can't do anything to stop Jessica from punching his head half-off. Luke is the guy who actually takes the hit, and he sits right back up, wincing. Luke is also a guy who gets run down by a speeding truck, and it does nothing.

    I'll back a wincing Luke against a crawling Danny any day of the week. ^_^
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 11-10-2020 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Edited due to me being wrong about a point! :D
    Why are we here?

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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  6. #6
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    The question at that point becomes 'What can Danny do with the guns?'

    We don't know. We know they cut bullets out of the air, but that's all. Which...is honestly garbage compared to Luke's durability, so 'this' Danny isn't winning either. Based on his feats, he unloads a ton of bullets on Luke which do pretty much nothing. After that? He's lost the Iron Fist and isn't hurting Luke if he hits him all day.

    Basically we don't know if what he can do is confined to pistols.



    He hurts Luke, and almost KO's himself. This is not a strategy he wants to repeat, as Danny is so messed up he's crawling on the floor, incapable of pulling his leg from the grip of a severely messed-up Matt, and can't do anything to stop Jessica from punching his head half-off. Luke is the guy who actually takes the hit, and he sits right back up, wincing. Luke is also a guy who gets run down by a speeding truck, and it does nothing.

    I'll back a wincing Luke against a crawling Danny any day of the week. ^_^
    I'm talking about the non-ganged-up-on Danny who damn near KO'd Luke completely earlier.

    But even that was stupid: Danny, acting not-really-all-that-zen, decided to go all Batman on the guy (fists first, talk later), and Luke ignores his strikes and tosses him across the room like I chuck out a newspaper. Danny gets back up and tries the same thing again, again doing nothing. He repeats this like 6 or 7 times before FINALLY Iron Fisting Luke, which drops Luke hard. The police show, so they don't continue. The CIS though, is the real deal. I get going up to a guy and trying to punch him normally. But once that doesn't work once, twice, three times a lady, why not, you know, actually hit him hard. What is this, Dragon Ball?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  7. #7
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I'm talking about the non-ganged-up-on Danny who damn near KO'd Luke completely earlier.

    But even that was stupid: Danny, acting not-really-all-that-zen, decided to go all Batman on the guy (fists first, talk later), and Luke ignores his strikes and tosses him across the room like I chuck out a newspaper. Danny gets back up and tries the same thing again, again doing nothing. He repeats this like 6 or 7 times before FINALLY Iron Fisting Luke, which drops Luke hard. The police show, so they don't continue. The CIS though, is the real deal. I get going up to a guy and trying to punch him normally. But once that doesn't work once, twice, three times a lady, why not, you know, actually hit him hard. What is this, Dragon Ball?
    The CIS is dumb, of course. Maybe Danny was worried he'd kill Luke, or something. Anyway...looking at the feats.

    So we have one hit where Luke is more-or-less fine after, and another hit where Luke...

    *checks*

    Dude, that doesn't drop Luke hard. It's a super-powerful strike that accomplishes LESS than what the 'booong' hit did. He punches Luke in the face. Luke goes flying, because the Iron Fist Hits Hard™. Luke hits the wall and falls from that impact (he's sideways, in the air, of course he falls down).

    Luke then immediately starts to get up.

    Does he perfectly pop back up to his feet? No. But there is only a brief wobble when he's on all fours, and then he's just continuing to get back up again. Then everyone stops to look at the cops. Luke finishes getting up. Danny kind of 'oh ****'s and runs. And Luke walks off himself.

    It's a perfect punch in the jaw, where the other hit was to the center of Luke's chest, and it still accomplishes no more than making Luke wobble a little when he's getting back up from where the impact flung him. At least the other punch has Luke wincing and not immediately getting up.

    Between that and the truck feat, and Danny not really showing the capacity to throw Iron Fist after Iron Fist (as I recall, could be wrong, but mostly they were one-shot fight-enders kind of thing), I really don't think he's putting Luke down.
    Why are we here?

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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    The CIS is dumb, of course. Maybe Danny was worried he'd kill Luke, or something. Anyway...looking at the feats.

    So we have one hit where Luke is more-or-less fine after, and another hit where Luke...

    *checks*

    Dude, that doesn't drop Luke hard. It's a super-powerful strike that accomplishes LESS than what the 'booong' hit did. He punches Luke in the face. Luke goes flying, because the Iron Fist Hits Hard™. Luke hits the wall and falls from that impact (he's sideways, in the air, of course he falls down).

    Luke then immediately starts to get up.

    Does he perfectly pop back up to his feet? No. But there is only a brief wobble when he's on all fours, and then he's just continuing to get back up again. Then everyone stops to look at the cops. Luke finishes getting up. Danny kind of 'oh ****'s and runs. And Luke walks off himself.

    It's a perfect punch in the jaw, where the other hit was to the center of Luke's chest, and it still accomplishes no more than making Luke wobble a little when he's getting back up from where the impact flung him. At least the other punch has Luke wincing and not immediately getting up.

    Between that and the truck feat, and Danny not really showing the capacity to throw Iron Fist after Iron Fist (as I recall, could be wrong, but mostly they were one-shot fight-enders kind of thing), I really don't think he's putting Luke down.
    Yeah, sure, that all sounds quite fair to me, and I agree that MCU Danny will lose to Luke.

    I think that Danny could hurt Luke, and again, a Danny who shows everything he ever shows all at once could probably-maybe-kinda take Luke. However, Danny never remotely shows the competence to do that. He shows some truly ridiculous speed at one point in his series, complete with explanation, then forgets all about it from that point on, going back to fighting without his enemies operating in slow motion. He keeps the fist up for an extended period at one or two points, then utterly fails to even summon it a bunch of other times. The elders of K'un L'un should have probably done a psych eval on Danny before wasting all that training on the guy.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    I have this odd notion that thunderclapping requires superhuman-sized hands, at least in the Marvel Universe. We've seen Hulk and Thing thunderclap, but never Thor or Hercules or Wonder Man.

    Power Man and Iron Fist did fight once, back when they first met in Power Man #48. Cage wasn't as strong back then and Danny wasn't quite as quick and had a more limited range of chi tricks. The whole fight is posted here:

    https://panels-of-interest.tumblr.com/post/141611629920

  10. #10
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    I have this odd notion that thunderclapping requires superhuman-sized hands, at least in the Marvel Universe. We've seen Hulk and Thing thunderclap, but never Thor or Hercules or Wonder Man.
    Surprisingly, Cage has thunderclapped. Given he's considerably less-strong than Hulk or the Thing, it's no surprise it didn't have the same effect, but it still blew a normal human across a room.

    luke_s_thunderclap_by_keyblademagicdan_dbp1flk-fullview.jpg
    Why are we here?

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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  11. #11
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Danny has feats for one-shotting guys TOUGHER than Luke, like Giant-Man'd up Thing.
    I’m just gonna flat out call bullshit on this one. Not that it happened, but it’s legitimacy as a feat. That sounds like it’s nestled firmly amid the bushes in the SMvFL park.

    The Pym Particles turn Hank as Giant Man from Just Some Guy to a Class 80 dude capable of exchanging blows with the real heavy hitters of the Marvel Universe.

    They turned Erik Josten from Class 10-20 guy into Class 100 guy who puts Hercules into a coma (as much as people might want to contend that it was a bunch of guys doing the beatdown, only Goliath and Tiger Shark have the heft to put any sort of hurt on Herc. A power-sharing Wrecker, the rest of the Wrecking Crew and even Peak Mr Hyde might as well have just made the coffee as far as their ability to hurt Zeus’ baby boy).

    So you apply those particles to a guy who starts off as the Class 80 poster-child? Danny is not hurting that guy.

  12. #12
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Danny KO'ed Ben Grimm all gianted up?

    .....

    I'm thin on Danny just KOing Ben normally. I mean, there's a gag that happens at a party where he punches Ben and sends him rocketing away, but other than that...even downing the Helicarrier is kind of a hit that Ben will feel, but won't KO him.

    Giant-Sized Ben would find it amusing.
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    "Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate

  13. #13
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Exactly. I wouldn’t give Danny good odds of hurting Ben OR Giant Man Hank, let alone someone that’s basically Ben magnified by the same ratio Hank is magnified by when he giants up.

    Just a big ole lolnope.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Put it this way, not even Hulk can one-shot a regular-size Ben Grimm. Iron Fist isn't one-shotting any version of the Thing.

  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    It wasn't Pym particles that embiggened him, so those rules don't exactly apply.

    But in any case, my point was not to validate the feat wholesale, merely to show that Danny punches really damn hard, more than hard enough to drop Luke, given that he's literally done that and has also dropped some other folks on that tier as well. I agree that one-shotting the Thing is a bridge too far for Danny, though not by all THAT much, given that Danny drops Luke in all his modern explicitly powered-up state.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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