Trumpism - Politics and Society

[Tami]

While Joe Biden received over 76,000,000 votes, Trump still received over 71,000,000 votes.

Even once Trump is out of office, there are news reports such as

Trump Lost the Race. But Republicans Know It’s Still His Party.

After Trump: first shots fired in battle for Republican party's future

Republicans Are Standing By Trump, Even as the World Moves On

My questions are, what is Trumpism after Trump is out of Office? What is the future of the Republican party? What affects will it have on the US? What does it mean for the rest of us? For the world? What is the attraction so many people have for it?

Thoughts?

[DrNewGod]

While Joe Biden received over 76,000,000 votes, Trump still received over 71,000,000 votes.

Even once Trump is out of office, there are news reports such as

Trump Lost the Race. But Republicans Know It’s Still His Party.

After Trump: first shots fired in battle for Republican party's future

Republicans Are Standing By Trump, Even as the World Moves On

My questions are, what is Trumpism after Trump is out of Office? What is the future of the Republican party? What affects will it have on the US? What does it mean for the rest of us? For the world? What is the attraction so many people have for it?

Thoughts?

If we're lucky, it means the GOP fractures, and a centrist party forms. Trumpism, however, is here to stay for a good long stretch, no matter what happens to the man.

To greater or lesser degrees, people suck. Some more than others, and the reasons and manifestations vary, but that's what it is to be human.

Some percentage of people can't empathize with people they view as different. Some reject knowledge (in part) because they hate being told what to do by people they think look down on them. Some focus frustration with their own circumstances on others. Some need to feel superior, especially when they know they are not, and try to achieve it by punching down.

These were some of the traits common among the Trumpsters I personally know. There's more motivations among the crowd than that, they're no more a monolith than any other movement. But those are some of the things I saw Trump sink his claws into. People with that combination of traits are always with us.

They been political forces before. Tea Party. Birch Society. Dixiecrats. The Klan (yeah, it was as socially prominent as The Mason's at one point, and not just in the South). Most of those titles were pushed into disrepute, but the attitudes stayed.

Why I say Trumpism is here to stay is that those kind of people are notoriously obstinate, and this We Wuz Robbed fairy tail they're clinging to is just the kind of thing to make their heels dig in extra hard. What's more, those kind of people are particularly prone to confirmation bias. Trump and people like him are especially gifted at sensing and feeding that.

Unfortunately, Trumpsters have gotten embedded in the GOP infrastructure pretty tightly. They know they can't hold their backing if they look weak, so I doubt they can be dislodged without burning the party to ash. So, yeah, they're going to be here a while.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

While Joe Biden received over 76,000,000 votes, Trump still received over 71,000,000 votes.

76 million votes as of present...that number's gonna go up when the full tally comes in.

My questions are, what is Trumpism after Trump is out of Office?

A loser ideology.

What is the future of the Republican party?

The world's smallest violin.

What affects will it have on the US? What does it mean for the rest of us? For the world? What is the attraction so many people have for it?

Thoughts?

It's way to early to know for sure. At the end of this election, the GOP have gone 20 years with only one popular vote victory and more than 30 years since they won a majority.

At the end of this election, Dems will have done better in Red States than vice versa. Major GOP senators like Lindsey Graham ran a margin in his red state that no Blue Candidate of comparative stature will face. 5 million voters, each, in FL and TX voted Democrats, with no similar gains in blue states. The Dems just need to keep up the pressure, avoid the obvious mistakes they made, and in the next four-six years, the GOP bastions will fall.

So the GOP will be in a desperate mood, in a besieged mentality.

[The no face guy]

My questions are, what is Trumpism after Trump is out of Office? What is the future of the Republican party? What affects will it have on the US? What does it mean for the rest of us? For the world? What is the attraction so many people have for it?

It's hard to say until the raw data comes in a few months from the 2020 election but Republicans have a few different options now. Here is what we do know...

1) Trump increased the white vote by 1% over Romney in 2016, but he did so more significantly in some of the rust belt states, overall the strength of his base was the white working class. (Blue collar whites)
2) Bush was able to win 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004 to ensure him a second term.

What I don't know is how much of the white votes increase was a result of Trump's rhetoric on illegal & legal immigration, and how much of it was based on the promise of economic nationalism (Bringing back manufacturing job) I suspect the former for Florida & the latter for the rust belt, but I don't have polling data on this so I cannot comment.

I suspect the Republican Party will find a more tempered Republican Candidate who will try to combine Bushism & Trumpism for electoral votes, if that is possible, otherwise they will revert back to Bushism, because in the long run, trying to increase the white working class vote is a losing proposition, because demographically there numbers are going down, while non white groups are going up.

Trump was able to increase his share of the vote amongst African Americans to 12%, (The best since 1996) but it's still peanuts and doesn't translate into electoral seats.

Not surprisingly, he performed poorly with Hispanic voters in comparison to the Bush's (Bush senior won 55% of the vote) (Bush Junior in the 40% range) your going to continually need that and upwards if you want to win elections with the largest growing demographic.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...h=234ad6924a09

[foxley]

Speaking as someone outside the US, I do not know enough about the inner workings of the US political parties to say anything meaningful about the impact. (And I find much of the US political system baffling. While I more-or-less understand the electoral college system, I am perplexed as to how any democracy could have decided on something so byzantine and broken as its way of determining its leader.)

But I suspect many of us outside the US are hoping to see a president who will cooperate with the US's allies rather than attack them; stop sucking up to dictators; recognize that the US is part of the world and cannot isolate itself from issues like climate change; etc.

[C_Miller]

The problem with Trumpism is that there is no proof as of right now that shows it can be successful without Trump. Trump got as many votes as he did because there is a subsection of this country that is is really excited about Donald Trump. Not Trumpism, but Donald Trump and the Cult of Personality surrounding him.

We can kind of see this taking shape in 2018. The typical logic is that Republicans always come out to vote while the Democrats have to kind of be forced out, especially in off years. Well, in 2018, there was a bit of a Blue Wave (not to the extent that the predictions made, but still bigger than what one would expect in a midterm year). So it looks like a lot of those new, previously disenfranchised Trump voters failed to come out when Trump wasn't on the ballot. It remains to be seen if this trend continues, but it certainly doesn't bode well for the Republican party.

I don't know who will be able to carry the torch. I supposed Donald could run again in 2024. He'd be about the same age as Biden is now, though due to his diet and clearly visible health issues, I'm not sure the next few years are going to be kind to him. None of his children have his natural charisma, though the Trump name could help I supposed. Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham are two of the least likable people in Congress. Nikki Haley is a possibility, but I think her political career really hurts her as she has floated between moderate and alt-right pretty inconsistently. I've heard Tucker Carlson's name floated, but he hasn't really shown any aspirations. He might actually be the best chance as he does not have a political record, but he does not have the history of success that was able to propel Trump with people who didn't know better.

[Bruce Wayne]

The problem with Trumpism is that there is no proof as of right now that shows it can be successful without Trump. Trump got as many votes as he did because there is a subsection of this country that is is really excited about Donald Trump. Not Trumpism, but Donald Trump and the Cult of Personality surrounding him.

I disagree. Trumpism is just white supremacy. It doesn't need Trump. The ideology worked fine in post-Reconstruction American from the Gilded Age up into the Civil Rights Movement where they played on racial anxieties following the legal dismantling of segregation. It can work the same way now. Instead of talking about "busing", they can play on the fear of BLM and illegal immigration ("build the wall").

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The problem with Trumpism is that there is no proof as of right now that shows it can be successful without Trump. Trump got as many votes as he did because there is a subsection of this country that is is really excited about Donald Trump. Not Trumpism, but Donald Trump and the Cult of Personality surrounding him.

We can kind of see this taking shape in 2018. The typical logic is that Republicans always come out to vote while the Democrats have to kind of be forced out, especially in off years. Well, in 2018, there was a bit of a Blue Wave (not to the extent that the predictions made, but still bigger than what one would expect in a midterm year). So it looks like a lot of those new, previously disenfranchised Trump voters failed to come out when Trump wasn't on the ballot. It remains to be seen if this trend continues, but it certainly doesn't bode well for the Republican party.

I don't know who will be able to carry the torch. I supposed Donald could run again in 2024. He'd be about the same age as Biden is now, though due to his diet and clearly visible health issues, I'm not sure the next few years are going to be kind to him. None of his children have his natural charisma, though the Trump name could help I supposed. Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham are two of the least likable people in Congress. Nikki Haley is a possibility, but I think her political career really hurts her as she has floated between moderate and alt-right pretty inconsistently. I've heard Tucker Carlson's name floated, but he hasn't really shown any aspirations. He might actually be the best chance as he does not have a political record, but he does not have the history of success that was able to propel Trump with people who didn't know better.

Good points.

I disagree. Trumpism is just white supremacy. It doesn't need Trump. The ideology worked fine in post-Reconstruction American from the Gilded Age up into the Civil Rights Movement where they played on racial anxieties following the legal dismantling of segregation. It can work the same way now. Instead of talking about "busing", they can play on the fear of BLM and illegal immigration ("build the wall").

Also good point.

At the same time, the 2000s can't be compared to the late 19th Cnetury.

[Overhazard]

Trumpers are really angry, even when trump won they were angry. Even though trump is on the way out, they're still going to be angry. Their anger is directed at the wrong people. It's directed at women, minorities, and lgbt people instead of well, the system. It's easier to imagine a tangible threat than an intangible one. The ones who feel that something is being taken from them. When women make a gain in society, men don't lose anything. When POC make a gain, white people don't lose anything, and when LGBT people make a gain, straight cis people don't lose anything. It feels like something is lost though, because they're so angry, they don't stop to think why they're so angry, they're just in their feelings, ironic coming from those telling us that feelings aren't important.

This line of thinking comes from the hyper competitive, capitalist society we live in. It's turned equality into a zero sum game. It doesn't have to be this way.

[C_Miller]

I disagree. Trumpism is just white supremacy. It doesn't need Trump. The ideology worked fine in post-Reconstruction American from the Gilded Age up into the Civil Rights Movement where they played on racial anxieties following the legal dismantling of segregation. It can work the same way now. Instead of talking about "busing", they can play on the fear of BLM and illegal immigration ("build the wall").

I think White Supremacy is a part of it, but I think White Supremacist policies are at the heart of the Republican Party. They don't need Trump to be successful, but I think Trump gives the Republican Party an edge with his Cult of Personality. I think it's premature to say that 70 Million people came out and voted for Donald Trump for White Supremacy. He taps into a set of voters who were not voters prior to 2016 and it was the same deal here.

Ultimately, it's really hard to say what the long term effects are going to be. 2022 is going to be a really telling election.

[Foxy]

Trumpers are really angry, even when trump won they were angry. Even though trump is on the way out, they're still going to be angry. Their anger is directed at the wrong people. It's directed at women, minorities, and lgbt people instead of well, the system. It's easier to imagine a tangible threat than an intangible one. The ones who feel that something is being taken from them. When women make a gain in society, men don't lose anything. When POC make a gain, white people don't lose anything, and when LGBT people make a gain, straight cis people don't lose anything. It feels like something is lost though, because they're so angry, they don't stop to think why they're so angry, they're just in their feelings, ironic coming from those telling us that feelings aren't important.

This line of thinking comes from the hyper competitive, capitalist society we live in. It's turned equality into a zero sum game. It doesn't have to be this way.

That is a very accurate description, thank you! This also applies to a lot of populist parties here in Europe who seek to divide and play off of people's fears (however unfounded they may be). Here it's usually the immigrants / minorities that are used as scapegoats so that people have someone to blame and look down on. Personally I hope that trumpism disappears with the man but many in the GOP are supporting him even now. So I hope that Biden will be able to make good on his promise to bring Americans back together and to make it possible for politicians from both sides to work together again because all they do now is block each others' proposals.

Another aspect of the capitalist society you mention, and which plays into trumpism (but also the GOP's views more in general) is the irrational fear of what Americans call "socialism". A lot of people in the US have somehow been led to believe that European countries that have a tax-funded social security and healthcare system are communist. People have been so brainwashed by these irrational claims that they rather vote for a system that benefits only the rich. They hear of this new tax proposal that introduces higher taxes and immediately are against it. Completely oblivious to the fact that it only applies to people who earn more than 400k / year and would never affect the majority of voters... Probably because they think that one day the American Dream will come true for them and then they don't want to be the ones paying taxes...

Ultimately this results in votes for people who clearly do not have their electorate's best interests at heart - basically like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[chamber-music]

The U.S already has social democratic programs like Social Security. Also things like healthcare coverage networks mean most Americans actually have less choice in regards to their healthcare options than a lot of other countries with socialized healthcare.

The US is one of only three countries in the world not to offer statutory paid maternity leave. Even third world countries have paid maternity leave.

It is crazy how so many politicians and media in the United States have convinced millions of Americans that normal things across the world are bad for them.

It is wild to see so many people in favor of the kind of ideology that birthed the robber barons and kept so many people's ancestors in the 19th century as the serfs of their day with few workers rights. Social/upward mobility has been in decline in the United States with more Americans being less likely to be better off than their parents.

Trump is and has always been a grifter. What Donald Trump cares about most is enriching himself, feeding his own ego and getting revenge on those he sees as his enemies. Trump will continue to use his supporters to fulfill each of those three things as long as he feels like it or is stopped from doing so.

I don't think Trump is even loyal to the 'Trump ideology'. His political views have pretty much shifted to whatever he feels best served him at the time over the course of his life time. Trump's political party affiliation has changed numerous times. He registered as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987, switched to the Reform Party in 1999, the Democratic Party in 2001, and back to the Republican Party in 2009.I think Trump is a bigot but much of his white supremacy platform was actually architected by the likes of Bannon and Miller. Those two guys are the ones who really want America to be a whites dominated ethnostate.

[DrNewGod]

That is a very accurate description, thank you! This also applies to a lot of populist parties here in Europe who seek to divide and play off of people's fears (however unfounded they may be). Here it's usually the immigrants / minorities that are used as scapegoats so that people have someone to blame and look down on. Personally I hope that trumpism disappears with the man but many in the GOP are supporting him even now. So I hope that Biden will be able to make good on his promise to bring Americans back together and to make it possible for politicians from both sides to work together again because all they do now is block each others' proposals.

Another aspect of the capitalist society you mention, and which plays into trumpism (but also the GOP's views more in general) is the irrational fear of what Americans call "socialism". A lot of people in the US have somehow been led to believe that European countries that have a tax-funded social security and healthcare system are communist. People have been so brainwashed by these irrational claims that they rather vote for a system that benefits only the rich. They hear of this new tax proposal that introduces higher taxes and immediately are against it. Completely oblivious to the fact that it only applies to people who earn more than 400k / year and would never affect the majority of voters... Probably because they think that one day the American Dream will come true for them and then they don't want to be the ones paying taxes...

Ultimately this results in votes for people who clearly do not have their electorate's best interests at heart - basically like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Some of this harkens back Marx condemnation of religion. It made it easy for the Robber Barons to enlist the church and label anything that wasn't laissez faire capitalism as evil. Nevermind The Christos teachings were inherently socialist, the message sunk in deep that socialism is an assault on peoples' hope of heaven.

[Powerboy]

I'm not politically educated enough to say a lot but I'll give my thoughts and, if I turn out to be wrong, I'll claim everybody agrees with me and declare myself the winner [that last part was a joke].

It's a hard call because white supremacy and all the other bigotries Trump played on will always be around in some way. But, they needed a cult leader like Trump to focus them. He also had to be someone who could pass himself off as an outsider and who could lie without hesitation, making up anything and everything without blinking. I think even most Republicans at the top were shocked that you could literally just make stuff up, not even any basis in reality, and have millions eat it up. But it also takes a very special personality to do that, a charismatic person who is also a raving narcissist and he has to come along at exactly the right time and place in history.

What if it wasn't right after the first black president with all the suppressed racism that unleashed? What if his opponent wasn't a woman, carrying it's own set of bigotries, and a woman particularly disliked?

Sure, he did well against Biden, a white male. But that was in the aftermath of the other factors that put him in power to begin with.

To be sure, the next four years, assuming Trump's age and health issues allow him to live that long, will involve a significant number of Trump supporters who believe he wuz robbed. Health allowing, we could see another Trump run in 2024 but I doubt it. I suspect it will be more the legacy. But you'd need a candidate with whatever it was that so many people see as charisma in Trump. He would also have to be such a pathological liar that he can make up anything without hesitation.

This ain't going away anytime soon but I question if it can be sustained without the cult leader running. Not to say we won't see MAGA caps but it's a shadow of itself without Trump.

I don't know how true this is but I have heard that, prior to the insanity of Trump, the Republican party was planning to take a softer stance on immigration and wade more into racial rights. This was because they know white people will not single-handedly be more than 50% of the population within a few decades and they were going to take steps to deal with that as reality. Then, along comes Trump and fires up the old school base who are equivalent to the characters in "Gone with the Wind" lamenting the end of the culture they knew where they were the top of the food chain. Some of them must feel a little like the smarter politicians in the Confederacy. "It was a crazy four years, "President" Davis, but it's over." Maybe that's a valid comparison, that the Confederacy lasted more or less four years just like the Trump presidency. But, alas, we cannot excise the Trump presidency and say it doesn't count.

I do think that, to avoid the Trump Movement sustaining itself, the Republicans have to look to the future and deal with it. But, they have clearly proven they are not willing to lose votes in the present by dealing with future reality. Even when Trump has clearly lost, most of them are playing along with this fantasy not to placate him but to not lose Republican votes. And the Republicans still have to be the Republicans, which means tax cuts for the wealthy and all the other stuff Republican voters can't see and shoot themselves in the foot with by voting Republican.

Soooo, I think the Trump movement will weaken the more we move into the future without Trump as president or, eventually, even alive. But the factors that allowed it to rise to begin with- racism, ethnic bigotry, sexism including women who are themselves indoctrinated into sexism, religious bigotry, science denial and the glorification of ignorance and on and on and on- will always be factors in some form.

[Tami]

I wonder if some of Trump's most ardent followers were social lurkers, people who were anti-establishment, anti-government so much so that they never voted before. I don't have any data on how many first-time voters voted for Trump either in 2016 or in 2020, and of those numbers how many voted fro him in hopes that he would destroy the government, destroy the country, create chaos.

Maybe I should say, I wonder how many of his followers are like that.

And of those, I wonder if they will remain feeling emboldened and stay active and publicly visible or if they will eventually slip back into the shadows, waiting for another like Trump.