Spider-Man 52 Discussion

[Lukmendes]

We need those pages because....yeah i got nothing,

I would have a bit less of a problem with this if the choreography at least looked good, but it's like most super-hero comic fights, we have both moments where it makes no sense, or it's confusing to follow and makes no sense, blergh.

unless than that was something that Gleason wanted to draw all.his life lol. I enjoy.the issue but man, i hope that there is more meat in the next.

What, so he wanted a comic with 4 splash pages, 3 of them being double splash? That's weird...

Then again, splash pages can be used to tell a story, Action Comics#1000 even had a story that was only told in splash pages, and it's my favorite one from it, but what it did to work was use each splash page to advance the story, here, the 3 double splash pages were just "Spidey and Kindred are fighting".

Also, that Julia just make wonder how would you react lol. Is good to see her doing something well for once, maybe the Order of the Web still has hope

I try to be fair when commenting on character's actions even when I mock them, so I'll give her credit where she deserves it, a broken clock is right twice a day and all :P.

Weird that Strange says her methods are infuriating, while yes, Julia is annoying whenever she does the "Something really bad will happen soon" kind of warnings, here she was clear, straight to the point, and even credited Strange by saying he would have the idea later, so how's she "infuriating"? Lol.

Evil MJ!!!!! I’m going to guess that this is the same dimension Peter was in on the way to the graveyard?

I cannot wait for this arc to finish. If Spencer sticks(pun intended) the landing this is going to be remembered as one of the greatest Spider-Man runs of all time. End Spoilers:

If you want to use spoilers, use [spoil ]spoilers here[/spoil ] without the spaces, that way you cover everything.

Either way, Evil MJ is from Peter's Astral Plane, which Peter points out about that other one in ASM#51, so yeah, it's the same place.

Not the first time MJ shows up in that, in ASM#46 vol 2, we have this moment:



If anyone ever wanted to know what MJ looks like with a moustache, there you go :P.

Also I guess we are going to ignore the fact that

spoilers:

That the Spider-sense didn't go off at the end. Maybe I missed the somehting that explains that Kindred can block it...If not then Im really not sure How hard is it to draw some little squiggly lines around Spider-mans head? Again, i'd even be willing to ignore that if also for the fact that Peter wasn't such a complete idiot at the end. This is Spider-man we are talking about..a veteran and experienced hero...and we are just going to completely turn our back to Kindred and pretend like everything is ok before he snaps your neck? Really?

end of spoilers

Spider-Sense is not reliable, I don't even think about all the times it doesn't work :P.

It is dumb he just turned his back towards Kindred though, you can say he was too happy and got distracted, but that's a newbie mistake anyways, Spider-Sense working or not... Would make more sense if Peter accepted whatever Kindred does instead of being surprised like that.

spoilers:

I mean it was pretty clear he could just turn the others back into monsters if Spidey didn't go through with the deal. It would've been dumb for Pete to try and renege on it after Kindred essentially just removed the city's immediate threat of his own volition.

end of spoilers

This was an awesome issue, I dont know why some people just refuse to be pleased by anything this series has put out. Excellent art, plenty of great action and so far a good story being told. Not sure what else you guys want, but I cant wait to see what happens next. Even picked up the LR for this arc which is a first for me.

I mean, I do enjoy Spencer's run, even with its flaws, and this story arc has been fun, but I'm not going to enjoy everything he puts out, specially an issue like this, it has the equivalent of a weekly shonen manga pacing, which super-hero comics should never, ever do.

I kinda get why people are disappointed with this issue and Spencer's run overall, bit for me - it's really great. I agree that Kindred mystery took too long, but we got some good stories like Hunted for example. Also remember, that because of Covid-19, the story got postponed.

It honestly took too long to be solved even before Corona shit happened, 50 issues to solve it is just meh.

Sure we had long mysteries with Green Goblin and Hobgoblin, but the wait for their identity to be revealed sucked ass too, Kindred repeating this mistake doesn't do him any favors.

As for the ending, I just think that Peter was so disturbed by everything he saw, he had some kind of mental breakdown. Imagine seeing Your friends and loved ones, as skeletons, sitting at dinner table.

He was looking very happy for someone having a mental breakdown lol.

I do still wonder, if the ending was necessary. If they are going where I think they are going... The truth of what Peter did... can be only one thing. (Yeah, I'm getting my hopes up, and I'll sure be disappointed).

I guess we'll find out, soon, maybe in One More Issue :P.

Wasn’t that always just supposed to be a demonic version of MJ?

Nope, it's the daughter Peter and MJ could end up having, who would only be born if they stayed married:

https://i.imgur.com/fauY83m.jpg

(ASM#545)

So that was just Mephisto taunting them with their dumbass choice, she had no importance besides that.

Okay, between Amazing Spider-Man #52 and Amazing Spider-Man #52.LR, and after all sifting through how it seems to be getting more convoluted, I think I may have an idea what's really going on. Certainly a better working theory than my defunct Kindred being a woman. Anyway...

spoilers:

We've seen A LOT of the Astral Plane being involved in this arc. Basically, as shown way back in Amazing Spider-Man vol 2 #42, every sentient being has their own connection to the Astral Plane which we can access through dreams and our subconscious...like Inception. And, like Inception, we fill that space with memories of places and people...projections, if you will. When Peter made his deal with Mephisto, it didn't remove a portion of his soul but altered the past, thereby altering a portion of his memory, a very important one which made up his own personal corner of the Astral Plane. And by doing so, that corner of the Astral Plane has been gradually starting to decay, as though it were infested by a parasite...like those centipedes. Centipedes which always seem to accompany Kindred/Harry...and the Astral Plane version of Mary Jane. Thus, the Mary Jane we see in the final page of ASM #52.LR isn't the real Mary Jane--she's Peter's subconscious projection of her. Therefore, Kindred isn't the real Harry, but Peter's subconscious projection of Harry, one who symbolizes how Peter fails to save those he cares about. In other words, Last Remains=Inception. (BWONG!) Now keep in mind, a subconscious projection of Harry could easily be mistaken for being the real Harry. So Norman isn't lying when he says Kindred is Harry. He just doesn't know the full story. After all, as MJ points out, Harry is alive, with his family, and has put all his personal trauma with Norman behind him. Moreover, Norman didn't provide any actual evidence that Kindred is Harry. He just knows it's him. Like a father who knows their son. Oh, and some anecdotal evidence to support this? We've seen Kindred/Harry clinging to a wall like Spider-Man and pose like Spider-Man in previous issues. What do we see "Mary Jane" in the Astral Plane doing at the end of this issue? Watching Dr. Strange and the Order of the Spiders from a Spider-Man like crouch position.

end of spoilers

Nice theory, but it completely ignores that Kindred was dead, in hell, became a demon and returned, and Kindred being just some Astral Plane projection that somehow escaped, can affect real life directly and has those hellish powers is questionable, and we know that he has those demonic powers and was in hell since he pulled Sin Eater from it, and he knew more about Carter than Peter did from what the tie-in shows, plus, why the hell would Kindred be Harry? He was never that important as a person to Peter, definitely not more than Flash.

[federicodettofred]

This is all we get with Kindred, not the arcs of the book. And you defending this makes it that much worse.
Just admit that this was all for nothing and that this book is kind of spinning in its wheels right now. There's nothing here that's particularly new or exciting. Edge of your seat? Give me a freakin' break. Let me explain how this will go down:
- Peter gets his butt handed to him
- Villain monologues to Peter about his so-called lies and misinformation
- Villain tortures or hurts Peter and/or loved ones
- Peter feels guilty and hurt over his actions
- Peter overcomes said guilt through a pep talk somehow and then resumes his activities as Spider-Man
- Peter fights said villain and defeats him
- Rinse and repeat.

Nothing new, nothing gained, nothing learned. NOTHING.

Uhm... Why do you even read Amazing Spider-Man then? Of course Peter will overcome the odds and defeat Kindred. It's the core of his character, but the story isn't even finished. Man, this criticism really makes no sense.

[TheCape]

I would have a bit less of a problem with this if the choreography at least looked good, but it's like most super-hero comic fights, we have both moments where it makes no sense, or it's confusing to follow and makes no sense, blergh.



What, so he wanted a comic with 4 splash pages, 3 of them being double splash? That's weird...

Then again, splash pages can be used to tell a story, Action Comics#1000 even had a story that was only told in splash pages, and it's my favorite one from it, but what it did to work was use each splash page to advance the story, here, the 3 double splash pages were just "Spidey and Kindred are fighting".



I try to be fair when commenting on character's actions even when I mock them, so I'll give her credit where she deserves it, a broken clock is right twice a day and all :P.

Weird that Strange says her methods are infuriating, while yes, Julia is annoying whenever she does the "Something really bad will happen soon" kind of warnings, here she was clear, straight to the point, and even credited Strange by saying he would have the idea later, so how's she "infuriating"? Lol.



If you want to use spoilers, use [spoil ]spoilers here[/spoil ] without the spaces, that way you cover everything.

Either way, Evil MJ is from Peter's Astral Plane, which Peter points out about that other one in ASM#51, so yeah, it's the same place.

Not the first time MJ shows up in that, in ASM#46 vol 2, we have this moment:



If anyone ever wanted to know what MJ looks like with a moustache, there you go :P.



Spider-Sense is not reliable, I don't even think about all the times it doesn't work :P.

It is dumb he just turned his back towards Kindred though, you can say he was too happy and got distracted, but that's a newbie mistake anyways, Spider-Sense working or not... Would make more sense if Peter accepted whatever Kindred does instead of being surprised like that.



I mean, I do enjoy Spencer's run, even with its flaws, and this story arc has been fun, but I'm not going to enjoy everything he puts out, specially an issue like this, it has the equivalent of a weekly shonen manga pacing, which super-hero comics should never, ever do.



It honestly took too long to be solved even before Corona shit happened, 50 issues to solve it is just meh.

Sure we had long mysteries with Green Goblin and Hobgoblin, but the wait for their identity to be revealed sucked ass too, Kindred repeating this mistake doesn't do him any favors.



He was looking very happy for someone having a mental breakdown lol.



I guess we'll find out, soon, maybe in One More Issue :P.



Nope, it's the daughter Peter and MJ could end up having, who would only be born if they stayed married:

https://i.imgur.com/fauY83m.jpg

(ASM#545)

So that was just Mephisto taunting them with their dumbass choice, she had no importance besides that.



Nice theory, but it completely ignores that Kindred was dead, in hell, became a demon and returned, and Kindred being just some Astral Plane projection that somehow escaped, can affect real life directly and has those hellish powers is questionable, and we know that he has those demonic powers and was in hell since he pulled Sin Eater from it, and he knew more about Carter than Peter did from what the tie-in shows, plus, why the hell would Kindred be Harry? He was never that important as a person to Peter, definitely not more than Flash.

Sometimes artist want to express something, no matter how nonsensical it is lol. But most likely it was just padding.

As for Strange, i'm sure that he is just mad that someone else had to do the magic exposition talk, that's his job dammit and he is very serious about it .

[Forty20]

I would have a bit less of a problem with this if the choreography at least looked good, but it's like most super-hero comic fights, we have both moments where it makes no sense, or it's confusing to follow and makes no sense, blergh.



What, so he wanted a comic with 4 splash pages, 3 of them being double splash? That's weird...

Then again, splash pages can be used to tell a story, Action Comics#1000 even had a story that was only told in splash pages, and it's my favorite one from it, but what it did to work was use each splash page to advance the story, here, the 3 double splash pages were just "Spidey and Kindred are fighting".



I try to be fair when commenting on character's actions even when I mock them, so I'll give her credit where she deserves it, a broken clock is right twice a day and all :P.

Weird that Strange says her methods are infuriating, while yes, Julia is annoying whenever she does the "Something really bad will happen soon" kind of warnings, here she was clear, straight to the point, and even credited Strange by saying he would have the idea later, so how's she "infuriating"? Lol.



If you want to use spoilers, use [spoil ]spoilers here[/spoil ] without the spaces, that way you cover everything.

Either way, Evil MJ is from Peter's Astral Plane, which Peter points out about that other one in ASM#51, so yeah, it's the same place.

Not the first time MJ shows up in that, in ASM#46 vol 2, we have this moment:



If anyone ever wanted to know what MJ looks like with a moustache, there you go :P.



Spider-Sense is not reliable, I don't even think about all the times it doesn't work :P.

It is dumb he just turned his back towards Kindred though, you can say he was too happy and got distracted, but that's a newbie mistake anyways, Spider-Sense working or not... Would make more sense if Peter accepted whatever Kindred does instead of being surprised like that.



I mean, I do enjoy Spencer's run, even with its flaws, and this story arc has been fun, but I'm not going to enjoy everything he puts out, specially an issue like this, it has the equivalent of a weekly shonen manga pacing, which super-hero comics should never, ever do.



It honestly took too long to be solved even before Corona shit happened, 50 issues to solve it is just meh.

Sure we had long mysteries with Green Goblin and Hobgoblin, but the wait for their identity to be revealed sucked ass too, Kindred repeating this mistake doesn't do him any favors.



He was looking very happy for someone having a mental breakdown lol.



I guess we'll find out, soon, maybe in One More Issue :P.



Nope, it's the daughter Peter and MJ could end up having, who would only be born if they stayed married:

https://i.imgur.com/fauY83m.jpg

(ASM#545)

So that was just Mephisto taunting them with their dumbass choice, she had no importance besides that.



Nice theory, but it completely ignores that Kindred was dead, in hell, became a demon and returned, and Kindred being just some Astral Plane projection that somehow escaped, can affect real life directly and has those hellish powers is questionable, and we know that he has those demonic powers and was in hell since he pulled Sin Eater from it, and he knew more about Carter than Peter did from what the tie-in shows, plus, why the hell would Kindred be Harry? He was never that important as a person to Peter, definitely not more than Flash.

Thanks for explaining the spoiler thing man, pretty new here and I’m still figuring stuff out as I go. I will agree that some of the staging especially in the astral plane wasn’t terribly clear. Gleason is great at horror and character but can be a little shaky on action. At first I was completely on board when Norman revealed Harry as Kindred, but now I could see him being perhaps a conglomerate of different people. Maybe part Pre OMD Harry/ pre OMD Peter and MJ?

[RD155]

Thanks for explaining the spoiler thing man, pretty new here and I’m still figuring stuff out as I go. I will agree that some of the staging especially in the astral plane wasn’t terribly clear. Gleason is great at horror and character but can be a little shaky on action. At first I was completely on board when Norman revealed Harry as Kindred, but now I could see him being perhaps a conglomerate of different people. Maybe part Pre OMD Harry/ pre OMD Peter and MJ?

That thought had crossed my mind as I was reading this issue so you are not alone with that theory. I think the safer option would be to assume that its just Harry for now but you never know.

As far as your thoughts on Gleason. I agree completely. I absolutely love his work on the title, but some of the action aspects were a bit shaky. It's a common issue in comics thought where the transitions at times between panels don't even seem to matter anymore. The sequences were just a bit messy at times.

[xpyred]

Uhm... Why do you even read Amazing Spider-Man then? Of course Peter will overcome the odds and defeat Kindred. It's the core of his character, but the story isn't even finished. Man, this criticism really makes no sense.

Makes no sense? That's a tough assumption. I've been collecting Spider-Man comics since Harry Osborn died in Spectacular Spider-Man 200. I sat through the 2 years of the 90's Clone Saga and the whole mysterious benefactor story that took over the last quarter of that time period. I sat through the awfully planned renumbering of the late 90's before JMS came along. As the 2000's began, the prices began rising but my love for the character meant no amount of money was a problem. Then OMD happened and I stopped looking at the character and the books through rose colored glasses. Now 2.99 seemed like too much for stories that were catering more to standards of Quesada and less to the fans. Now I am shelling out 3.99 not once, but two to four times a month. The pacing could be better. The mystery could have a bit more meat to it.

[RD155]

Makes no sense? That's a tough assumption. I've been collecting Spider-Man comics since Harry Osborn died in Spectacular Spider-Man 200. I sat through the 2 years of the 90's Clone Saga and the whole mysterious benefactor story that took over the last quarter of that time period. I sat through the awfully planned renumbering of the late 90's before JMS came along. As the 2000's began, the prices began rising but my love for the character meant no amount of money was a problem. Then OMD happened and I stopped looking at the character and the books through rose colored glasses. Now 2.99 seemed like too much for stories that were catering more to standards of Quesada and less to the fans. Now I am shelling out 3.99 not once, but two to four times a month. The pacing could be better. The mystery could have a bit more meat to eat.

That was probably my main issue with this particularly issue. It just felt like padding. There wasn't enough "meat" to it. You could skip this issue and essentially continue the story just fine with the exception of the last page. Granted I'm holding out high hopes for the next issue. I'm expecting big things but maybe thats my problem. I just went into this with such high hopes that its possible the issue was probably not going to meet them regardless. Spencer has had some pacing issues through out this run. It's a serious issue he has. This "mystery" has just gone on too long and all this teasing from Kindred has gone from intense and suspenseful to just annoying at this point.

All that being said, I'm really looking forward to next issue if what I'm assuming to be true happens with OMD finally be tackled head on.

Lol Pretty excited to see the "preview" pages for the next issue.

[Vortex85]

That was probably my main issue with this particularly issue. It just felt like padding. There wasn't enough "meat" to it. You could skip this issue and essentially continue the story just fine with the exception of the last page. Granted I'm holding out high hopes for the next issue. I'm expecting big things but maybe thats my problem. I just went into this with such high hopes that its possible the issue was probably not going to meet them regardless. Spencer has had some pacing issues through out this run. It's a serious issue he has. This "mystery" has just gone on too long and all this teasing from Kindred has gone from intense and suspenseful to just annoying at this point.

All that being said, I'm really looking forward to next issue if what I'm assuming to be true happens with OMD finally be tackled head on.

Lol Pretty excited to see the "preview" pages for the next issue.

Yeah but if you skipped this issue you would complain about a serious lack of a battle with Kindred for an arc with so much build up. This was an action issue for sure.

[Forty20]

That thought had crossed my mind as I was reading this issue so you are not alone with that theory. I think the safer option would be to assume that its just Harry for now but you never know.

As far as your thoughts on Gleason. I agree completely. I absolutely love his work on the title, but some of the action aspects were a bit shaky. It's a common issue in comics thought where the transitions at times between panels don't even seem to matter anymore. The sequences were just a bit messy at times.

I’m honestly still team Harry for the moment. It just felt a bit odd to reveal a characters identity verbally and not physically. (That Gwen reference though, maybe that’s kind of an in joke to the fans?) Spencer’s probably saving the unmasking for #53 or #55. If it’s Pre OMD Harry, Harry + someone else?.....I’ll really be happy whatever path this takes.
Overall I think Gleason is a great fit for Spencer, especially on this arc. Super sad when Ottley left but I’ve liked all the artists we’ve been getting recently.

[RD155]

Yeah but if you skipped this issue you would complain about a serious lack of a battle with Kindred for an arc with so much build up. This was an action issue for sure.

This issue could have been condensed or mixed with the LR issue. This wasn’t even a well scripted action sequence. It was decent. Gleason just had some messy moments. Overall I do love his artwork but I’ve noticed a trend with some of his action moments where he struggles a bit. The last issue had no action and to me was one of the best Spider-Man issues in a while. This was supposed to be an “action issue” as you put it...but it was messy and pretty simple. Hopefully their next encounter which might be done by Bagley in assuming is more coherent and better put together.

Again, this wasn’t a bad issue. It was alright...I just wish there was more story. You can have an “action” issue with the story still pressing forward and developing. That wasn’t the case here.

[Frontier]

(I assume we're just talking about the .LR issue here, too?)

You can definitely tell we're trying to forget the Queenpin era ever happened when Black Cat shows up and Miles and Silk don't even bat an eye or really address it. Jessica exclaiming her name was kind of funny if only because they don't have any connection beyond the fact that Felicia was originally envisioned as a Spider-Woman villain.

[Cindy's Addiction]

Yeah, about that whole Queenpin era kinda made me scratching my head thinking "So we're just gonna pretend that her conflict with Miles and that time Silk works with Black Cat while undercovered never happens?" I'm not quite sure if Spencer hasn't read any issues of Miles and Silk's series. Seems that 52.LR has sustained a little mishap there.

[Batman Begins 2005]

(I assume we're just talking about the .LR issue here, too?)

You can definitely tell we're trying to forget the Queenpin era ever happened when Black Cat shows up and Miles and Silk don't even bat an eye or really address it. Jessica exclaiming her name was kind of funny if only because they don't have any connection beyond the fact that Felicia was originally envisioned as a Spider-Woman villain.

Thank God for that and Nick Spencer fixing Black Cat. Heist is still one of Nick Spencer's best stories on the book, TASM (2018) #8-10.

[Frontier]

Yeah, about that whole Queenpin era kinda made me scratching my head thinking "So we're just gonna pretend that her conflict with Miles and that time Silk works with Black Cat while undercovered never happens?" I'm not quite sure if Spencer hasn't read any issues of Miles and Silk's series. Seems that 52.LR has sustained a little mishap there.

I mean, her solo literally said we're trying to forget that happened .

[Lukmendes]

(I assume we're just talking about the .LR issue here, too?)

You can definitely tell we're trying to forget the Queenpin era ever happened when Black Cat shows up and Miles and Silk don't even bat an eye or really address it. Jessica exclaiming her name was kind of funny if only because they don't have any connection beyond the fact that Felicia was originally envisioned as a Spider-Woman villain.

I can see why Jessica would say her name, Felicia has a public identity, but it's weird Jessica goes by a first name basis.

And honestly, I still find it surprising that Felicia being planned to be a Jessica villain was never used as a development gag to make them meet, or even fight each other, and the Queenpin era could make an excuse for that... Hell, were they ever in the same panel, or even the same comic, before #52.LR?

Yeah, about that whole Queenpin era kinda made me scratching my head thinking "So we're just gonna pretend that her conflict with Miles and that time Silk works with Black Cat while undercovered never happens?" I'm not quite sure if Spencer hasn't read any issues of Miles and Silk's series. Seems that 52.LR has sustained a little mishap there.

We just don't talk about Queenpin, ever .

Spencer is at least aware of the reasoning originally used for Felicia to go evil, with Otto beating her up and all, but that's obviously retconned, but yeah, whether or not he's aware that Felicia was being a pain in Cindy's and Miles' asses is dubious (And considering how Marvel doesn't care about continuity, very high chances he doesn't know), not that we should waste panels talking about it, it'd slow down the story, and worse, it'd remind us of Queenpin.

I mean, her solo literally said we're trying to forget that happened .

I'm surprised the solo talked about it at all, when was that? Always fun to mock the whole Queenpin nonsense lol.

Edit: Oh and here's a fun fact, did you guys know it had been like, six months since the last time I remembered that Queenpin was a thing? Screw y'all for reminding me .