Another round of layoffs at DC

[Nite-Wing]

DC is going through what people thought would happen to Marvel when Disney bought them.
The sky really is falling for DC
Pretty soon comics will be released like GN's and weeklies will be only digital

Priority money making characters getting even more focus and C and D list characters getting lost in the shuffle
WOW

[Dark Falz]

That's unfortunate, but at the same time, it's like...if that is actually what the company needs to do to get itself on track, then okay. I personally think they produce WAY too many comics at DC and there isn't enough demand for that kind of volume. What's more is that the company is typically producing bad-mediocre stories with "typical" artwork. By typical, I mean it's competent, if same-y, run of the mill, and usually not outstanding in any way, at least not to my eye. In the long run, I think it would do the company good to focus less on volume and more on quality, but in the short run it probably won't, because it seems to have an audience that will largely buy regardless of quality. The thing about that is, however, you won't grow the audience that way, because outsiders looking in are not going to hop on board unless the content is very, very compelling. So, it seems they're in a perilous position. They can't go anywhere unless they grow their audience, but employing measures to do so is literally risky business.

[skyvolt2000]

DC will never recover from this. Comics aren't exactly making money. Down the line, DC will likely cease publishing and become a licensing company licensing its properties for cartoons/video games/movies.

The comics are making money. The comic division is NOT limited to that scared floppy that so many want to worship. It's the floppies, trades, licensing, toys and other stuff.

They're making money, just not with the audience DC has.

THIS.

They want the audience who bought Raven, Beast Boy & Aqualad's OGNs.
They want the folks who buy Ms Marvel, Miles, Lumberjanes, My Hero Academica, One Piece and so on.

They want the folks DC has previously chased off.

However when you let go of the person who is trying to do that-you are shooting yourself in the foot.

publish maybe 8 titles and use only the most popular artists and the books will make money. 2 or 3 Editors will be enough and like Archie the company will be around forever making comics.

Dc can't survive like that.

Archie is barely holding on because they too have alienated fans. They were not too happy with the Riverdale movement in comics.

[Konja7]

THIS.

They want the audience who bought Raven, Beast Boy & Aqualad's OGNs.
They want the folks who buy Ms Marvel, Miles, Lumberjanes, My Hero Academica, One Piece and so on.

They want the folks DC has previously chased off.

However when you let go of the person who is trying to do that-you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't think they want that audience so much if they let go the person who is treating to attract that audience.

In itself, we don't know how much most YA comics are selling. I think we know Raven (and Beast Boy?) is selling pretty good, but we don't exactly know about the others, right?

[kjn]

Diana Princess of the Amazons also sold really well. And raw sales is only one part, it's also really important if a title manages to find new readers. Last, the creative quality from the Ink et c lines has been very high.

[Tzigone]

That's unfortunate, but at the same time, it's like...if that is actually what the company needs to do to get itself on track, then okay. I personally think they produce WAY too many comics at DC and there isn't enough demand for that kind of volume. What's more is that the company is typically producing bad-mediocre stories with "typical" artwork. By typical, I mean it's competent, if same-y, run of the mill, and usually not outstanding in any way, at least not to my eye. In the long run, I think it would do the company good to focus less on volume and more on quality, but in the short run it probably won't, because it seems to have an audience that will largely buy regardless of quality. The thing about that is, however, you won't grow the audience that way, because outsiders looking in are not going to hop on board unless the content is very, very compelling. So, it seems they're in a perilous position. They can't go anywhere unless they grow their audience, but employing measures to do so is literally risky business.

I can't say I think they need fantastic art every story. Too many big splash pages and too few words all to often, IMO. And stories far too expanded, often with little actually happening in an issue and a single story taking months to finish. Good art is nice, but if they want to expand their readership and be mainstream again (which I don't know is possible), they need more pick-up-an-issue-and-read-a-complete-story for accessibility purposes. That can be a single-story per issue like the old days or OGNs for longer stories. We have TPBs now, but that's only for some titles/storylines, and they're sometimes quite unenjoyable when reading-real-time. The Wal-Mart books were good too, for being somewhere people can just see and pick up instead of having to go out of their way (or have a credit card with digital material) to get. I do think getting kids again would be a a good long-term move, and amazing art really isn't the grabber for most of them (or so it seems when I look at what they read today or the comics they read in the old days). Nor, frankly, is it for me. I'm much more interested in stories.

I don't like all the edginess and goriness and terrible things happening to heroes (or heroes doing terrible things) for shock value, but I cannot deny that sells. But probably not as much to kids, at least those under 11 or so. Still, can't deny it's a money-maker in regards to the audience they actually have.

[Dark Falz]

I can't say I think they need fantastic art every story. Too many big splash pages and too few words all to often, IMO. And stories far too expanded, often with little actually happening in an issue and a single story taking months to finish. Good art is nice, but if they want to expand their readership and be mainstream again (which I don't know is possible), they need more pick-up-an-issue-and-read-a-complete-story for accessibility purposes.

Possibly, but at the same time, there are people who read manga and that stuff often has story arcs that go on and on and on. The difference, I believe, is that manga is oftentimes more coherent because it's frequently the vision of a single person, so they aren't stepping on their own toes, disregarding continuity, muddling their own continuity, relaunching all the time, and so on. In short, the stories aren't confusing to start or follow. They're also packaged in easy to follow volumes. American superhero comics can't even get that part right.

I think their biggest problem is that their content is confusing, and often not good, certainly not good enough to be worth the trouble of deciphering it. The comics have also gotten to the point where they meme a lot of their own issues within the fiction with things like their various Crisis events.

[Konja7]

Possibly, but at the same time, there are people who read manga and that stuff often has story arcs that go on and on and on. The difference, I believe, is that manga is oftentimes more coherent because it's frequently the vision of a single person, so they aren't stepping on their own toes, disregarding continuity, muddling their own continuity, relaunching all the time, and so on. In short, the stories aren't confusing to start or follow. They're also packaged in easy to follow volumes. American superhero comics can't even get that part right.

I think their biggest problem is that their content is confusing, and often not good, certainly not good enough to be worth the trouble of deciphering it. The comics have also gotten to the point where they meme a lot of their own issues within the fiction with things like their various Crisis events.

True. You usually need to follow only one series to understand manga and you could start in issue 1.

Also, manga allows characters to develop*, because the stories could have an ending. In superhero comics, characters usually need to return to the status quo.


*To be clear, I don't mean characters becoming older. That is still pretty uncommon in manga (even less if this means the character becoming older than 30). However, they are allowed to overcome their issues and grow emotionally.

[Tzigone]

True. You usually need to follow only one series to understand manga and you could start in issue 1.

I can certainly agree that the shared universe has ended up causing issues (despite also adding coolness). I haven't read manga - do they have the same thing where in one issue/book (one unit of sale as they are typically sold) you can start with a fight and end with the hero still in that same fight, with nothing having happened? Or spend an entire issue looking for a clue and then cliff-hang at the end without the clue found? Or spend multiple issues with a character in a dream and no forward momentum of the story (seriously, King!) I [i]like[/] arcs. What I don't like is that one issue often doesn't have a clear beginning, middle, and end, and you take so long to get a complete story (as opposed to several individual stories making up an arc, which I think is good). Well, and I don't like the bad continuity. While I can't say I'd be into no continuity at all, and no arcs, bad continuity is much worse than none. Really good continuity is a thing a beauty, but rarely seen over a long time-period, especially with multiple cooks in the kitchen.

[silverlantern]

It's really unfortunate to see the extent of these cuts especially as the pandemic is ongoing. My heart goes out to all of those impacted and their families.

That being said, the sad reality is some form of major restructuring was always on the horizon when AT&T bought out WarnerMedia. Comics as a monthly business can never produce consistent sales, and there are only so many titles each year that can sustain a certain audience. Moreover, the stuff that's selling really well for DC are stuff we've known ahs sold well for years: the monthly Batman title, events, and anniversary issues. Everything else really can't support its own cost after too long if sales keep deceasing month after month.

Going forward I'm expecting more investment into the YA line, a monthly line up of maybe 10-12 titles (Batman, Superman, Action, etc...we're already mostly there with only 14 ongoing scheduled for December) more focus on the Digital First line and whatever originals that the DC Universe Infinite is going to start producing. I think the end goal is really using the DCUI service as their biggest market as everything is going direct-to-consumer, and the physical books being relegated to a few characters and prestige Black Label titles.

[Konja7]

I can certainly agree that the shared universe has ended up causing issues (despite also adding coolness). I haven't read manga - do they have the same thing where in one issue/book (one unit of sale as they are typically sold) you can start with a fight and end with the hero still in that same fight, with nothing having happened? Or spend an entire issue looking for a clue and then cliff-hang at the end without the clue found? Or spend multiple issues with a character in a dream and no forward momentum of the story (seriously, King!) I [i]like[/] arcs. What I don't like is that one issue often doesn't have a clear beginning, middle, and end, and you take so long to get a complete story (as opposed to several individual stories making up an arc, which I think is good). Well, and I don't like the bad continuity. While I can't say I'd be into no continuity at all, and no arcs, bad continuity is much worse than none. Really good continuity is a thing a beauty, but rarely seen over a long time-period, especially with multiple cooks in the kitchen.

I think there are some battle manga with situation like that (although I think that would be more common in a weekly manga).

Manga is pretty varied (and quality will depend on the author), so it is difficult to say that something could not happen.

[Vordan]

The thing is DC’s sales are actually up. They’ve been selling a lot better during the pandemic according to Lee, and lots of other comics creators have said Covid has been a boon for trade. This isn’t really about sales, least not DC’s, it’s because AT&T was so stupid they took on over 100 billion in debt and are now being forced by stockholders to gut themselves to try to get that debt down.

[Robotman]

I read an article last week about how we could see a wave of long time DC creators heading to Marvel and indie publishers. I’m sure the continued layoffs were already being talked about. Such a bummer.

AT&T will never sell DC Comics because while the comics themselves don’t sell much anymore, the properties are still far too valuable. Plus comics books are basically cheap story boards and concept generators for tv and film (where the real money is).

[seismic-2]

Going forward I'm expecting more investment into the YA line

One of the people getting a pink slip is Michele Wells, VP and Executive Editor of DC Children's/Young Adult. It's hard to reconcile "more investment" with "fire the person with the biggest salary, to save money".

[silverlantern]

One of the people getting a pink slip is Michele Wells, VP and Executive Editor of DC Children's/Young Adult. It's hard to reconcile "more investment" with "fire the person with the biggest salary, to save money".

Yeah I had read that she was let go after I made my original post. Now I really can't guess what' going on there.