Would Superman Be More Popular If He (And His Rogues) Never Rose Above Mid-Tier?

[Menacer]

Ive often wished there were more powered down stories...

The fact he can move an entire planet or withstand an atomic bomb does create a sense of unfathomable power.


Ultimately Im a huge fan of Superman so him being insanelu powerful isn't really an issue...

Although it does bother me when he has super intelligence. Like he can build a computer, weapon or someones house..


Feel like being super smart should be lexs thing or batmans thing.

Superman shouldnt know advanced sciences...

[manwhohaseverything]

Ive often wished there were more powered down stories...

The fact he can move an entire planet or withstand an atomic bomb does create a sense of unfathomable power.


Ultimately Im a huge fan of Superman so him being insanelu powerful isn't really an issue...

Although it does bother me when he has super intelligence. Like he can build a computer, weapon or someones house..


Feel like being super smart should be lexs thing or batmans thing.

Superman shouldnt know advanced sciences...

He is superman. Nothing should be out of the purview of his competence, if not dominance. Merely a guy with powers cannot be called the man of tomorrow.There are gazillions of them in fiction.

[Laufeyson]

Ive often wished there were more powered down stories...

The fact he can move an entire planet or withstand an atomic bomb does create a sense of unfathomable power.


Ultimately Im a huge fan of Superman so him being insanelu powerful isn't really an issue...

Although it does bother me when he has super intelligence. Like he can build a computer, weapon or someones house..


Feel like being super smart should be lexs thing or batmans thing.

Superman shouldnt know advanced sciences...

To be honest to me those powers he hold made him different from everyone. Superman is smarter than everyone else with more knowledge of Aliens thanks to Fortress of Solitude and his brain. Stronger than any hero on Earth and fearless than anyone else. It made him different from the other and yet if you peel all of that he is a normal human, because he is born and raised in Earth. It's just his scale is off chart on doing that. I think he must be smarter than Batman, but being a good sport he is, he let Batman win.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah!I hate the "thanks to" approach with superman. Why can't superman be competent ,strong or good without "thanks to someone or something"?does he need handouts and cheats for everything?
Why is superman good?thanks to ma,pa,Lois...etc
Why is superman strong?thanks to sun steroids.
Why is does superman have technology and intelligence? Thanks to sky parents.
Geez!working class gladiator for truth and justice everyone.

Superman built fortress with his own hands.he became strong by actively challenging himself.he is good because of instinct and morality he developed through experiences

[phantom1592]

To be honest to me those powers he hold made him different from everyone. Superman is smarter than everyone else with more knowledge of Aliens thanks to Fortress of Solitude and his brain. Stronger than any hero on Earth and fearless than anyone else. It made him different from the other and yet if you peel all of that he is a normal human, because he is born and raised in Earth. It's just his scale is off chart on doing that. I think he must be smarter than Batman, but being a good sport he is, he let Batman win.

Agree here. I like my Superman to be SUPER!! the the top most SUPER that comics can get away with. A mid-tier Superman does nothing for me. I want him to be to able to wrestle an asteroid to save the planet... Not be challenged by generic gangsters.

[PCN24454]

Yeah!I hate the "thanks to" approach with superman. Why can't superman be competent ,strong or good without "thanks to someone or something"?does he need handouts and cheats for everything?
Why is superman good?thanks to ma,pa,Lois...etc
Why is superman strong?thanks to sun steroids.
Why is does superman have technology and intelligence? Thanks to sky parents.
Geez!working class gladiator for truth and justice everyone.

Superman built fortress with his own hands.he became strong by actively challenging himself.he is good because of instinct and morality he developed through experiences

I think you’re over exaggerating what we’re getting at. Superman isn’t one thing; he’s a person who grows and changes as he encounters things.

You aren’t a real person without “Thanks to”.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think you’re over exaggerating what we’re getting at. Superman isn’t one thing; he’s a person who grows and changes as he encounters things.

You aren’t a real person without “Thanks to”.

There is environmental, genetics, potential.. Etc the factors molding you and then there is environmental factors making you. Superman is second kind. No, i am not exaggerating. Superman's elseworlds disagree with you. He is weak. He doesn't have real strength . he has no pride nor honor. Superman is entirely based on determinism and some religious philosophy that say "how you get strong doesn't matter, Only how you use your strength" . I find it boring. I much prefer this.Well, i say nonsense. Both matter.Potential doesn't mean jack. If you don't do anything, you won't get anything or anywhere.


To this.

[Steel Inquisitor]

There is environmental, genetics, potential.. Etc the factors molding you and then there is environmental factors making you. Superman is second kind. No, i am not exaggerating. Superman's elseworlds disagree with you. He is weak. He doesn't have real strength . he has no pride nor honor. Superman is entirely based on determinism and some religious philosophy that say "how you get strong doesn't matter, Only how you use your strength" . I find it boring. I much prefer this.Well, i say nonsense. Both matter.Potential doesn't mean jack. If you don't do anything, you won't get anything or anywhere.

I disagree with all of this. Environmental factors, like both Superman's parents and how he's connected to Krypton, and the relationships he developed in Smallville and Metropolis and elsewhere are incredibly defining for him. Superman has free will, he's not controlled by fate - that's what I didn't like on Smallville, they pushed that far too hard and it's the only interpretation that does anything with that theme. Just because you disagree with how he acts isn't proof he has no pride, strength, or honor. He has bucketloads of that, how he goes about this separates from Lex who becomes toxic to everyone around him because he's extreme and selfishly arrogant. He's not ashamed of his heritage, his parents, his friends or his profession, he may pretend to be shy as Clark but even that's fallen out of favor since Clark became a popular journalist. It has nothing to do with determinism. He didn't become the world's greatest hero on his first day he worked for that. All he wants to do is help people, not be a glory hound.

Superman Elseworlds don't mean anything since they're Elseworlds, not canon. They're not even adaptions based on canon.

To this.

The context for that scene is that Joe-El trains him for years in how to control his powers, and this is continued in other adaptions like Smallville but there Jor-El is just one piece of how he became Superman. Not unlike Bruce Wayne who spent years training from various masters before becoming Batman. In the Donner movies he doesn't even stop Zod and co. with his powers, he outwits them with his own guile. Lex wins originally in the first movie.

[NaVi]

Superman does not fight for himself, he does not have his powers for him, he does not strive to improve nor does he even strive to know the strength (the little that remains of his world) and to know how to use his technology, Superman is an example of 0 effort, of being lazy and depending on mom and dad. many hate superman because they believe that it depends entirely on his powers, that without them he would be nothing, the truth is that they are right

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman does not fight for himself, he does not have his powers for him, he does not strive to improve nor does he even strive to know the strength (the little that remains of his world) and to know how to use his technology, Superman is an example of 0 effort, of being lazy and depending on mom and dad. many hate superman because they believe that it depends entirely on his powers, that without them he would be nothing, the truth is that they are right

Precisely, goldenage superman is a workout machine.

Always love it when clark is pushing himself to be better.These things matter to general people.

[NaVi]

Precisely, goldenage superman is a workout machine.

Always love it when clark is pushing himself to be better.These things matter to general people.

the worst thing is that you can have both versions of superman in the same character, you can have the god and the champion, if you try a little and you are interested, why be a man with personality, with a competitive instinct and who strives to be better, it doesn't make you a monster. But as I said in another comment, for DC Superman is not a hero, he is an icon that is there to inspire others and that finally falls behind, it is the fourth hokage of DC.

[Jim Kelly]

See, I would never use the term "mid tier." To me that suggests second-banana heroes. In the 1940s, characters like Aquaman and the Atom were second banana heroes. That had nothing to do with their powers--but they would always be the back-up feature in any book they appeared. A character like Aquaman would become a first banana later. Superman and Batman were always first bananas--they appeared on the covers. Characters like Deadman, the Legion of Super-Heroes and the New Gods have fluctuated between being first bananas or second bananas. It's a combination of how much the publisher values the characters and how much the readers are interested in them. Second banana characters tend to attract a loyal following, yet if a fan-favourite creator handles said heroes, then that might be enough to push them into the first banana category.

[PCN24454]

See, I would never use the term "mid tier." To me that suggests second-banana heroes. In the 1940s, characters like Aquaman and the Atom were second banana heroes. That had nothing to do with their powers--but they would always be the back-up feature in any book they appeared. A character like Aquaman would become a first banana later. Superman and Batman were always first bananas--they appeared on the covers. Characters like Deadman, the Legion of Super-Heroes and the New Gods have fluctuated between being first bananas or second bananas. It's a combination of how much the publisher values the characters and how much the readers are interested in them. Second banana characters tend to attract a loyal following, yet if a fan-favourite creator handles said heroes, then that might be enough to push them into the first banana category.

I never thought much of this thread before, but your comment highlighted just how stupid it is.

Superman is a first-tier character whose only fault is that he's "not as popular as Batman". How much of a boost does he need?

[upmiddowntown]

Maybe a fresh batch of Rogues would help. Some stronger than him, some smarter and some willing to do things that Supes could never imagine

[Vordan]

Maybe a fresh batch of Rogues would help. Some stronger than him, some smarter and some willing to do things that Supes could never imagine

No it wouldn’t. Every writer tries to make a bunch of OCs and few stick. They keep making villains who are Doomsday knockoffs for him to punch and they all suck. Rogal, Ullek, Equus, all boring bland dudes. What someone needs to do is go “I want to write the definitive Parasite or Metallo story” and then revamp either of those two. Despite being two of his longest standing Rogues neither have gotten any focus in decades.