Gossip: DC Comics, Abandoning Comic Shops and Comic Cons?

[charliehustle415]

Big companies aren't going to let characters who can sell billion dollar movies languish in the comic store ghetto supported by a few hundred thousand middle age fans.

...

The problem is that for decades DC and Marvel really have only been playing lip service to the idea of opening up new markets, but now AT&T has made it clear that THAT is the future of DC Comics, and they're right in doing so.

...

When we live in a world where Dog-Man outsells Batman or Spider-Man, something has gone horribly wrong with the way that comics companies have been running their businesses.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

This has always been the problem especially because comic book stores and comic book fans have a stereotype that the mainstream will never let go.

[silverlantern]

A random thought I had is that during the time period DC has been an AT&T subsidiary, the two biggest comics they've ever produced have been released, Action and Detective #1000.

If the powers that be see the absolute upper limit for an individual comic with decades of history behind them can only move 400-500,000 copies per month when streaming services subscriptions, tv viewership, and box office grosses are measured in the tens of millions...maybe they're going to take drastic measures to grow their market.

I still think the future they're gonna pursue is digital first/ DC Universe Infinite service as far as serialization goes, with Black Label prestige stories as their main focus for the Direct Market. Less we forget Three Jokers has sold 300,000 + copies and is poised to be DC's biggest selling miniseries in a long time, and it's really not set in continuity like your monthly issue of Batman is.

[Frontier]

Rumors of DC abandoning the Direct Market in favor of Bookstores, Book Fairs, Amazon, and digital have been circulating for awhile now -- ever since AT&T bought Time Warner -- and really even before that (but not as believably).

People are saying AT&T doesn't know what they're doing, but you know what? I think they DO know what they're doing because they're not looking at the Direct Market through rose-colored nostalgia glasses the way comics fans are.

Ever since The Dark Knight made a billion dollars at the box office, and then the MCU happened, the future of comics was out of our hands.

We'd been wanting comics to be appreciated by the general public and hoping for the day when being a comic reader wasn't something to be embarrassed by, and now that it's happened, we're realizing that getting noticed by the big corporations and the general public has only hastened the demise of the comic shop market.

Big companies aren't going to let characters who can sell billion dollar movies languish in the comic store ghetto supported by a few hundred thousand middle age fans.

The reality is that nothing DC and Marvel have done since the market crash of the mid-1990s has really turned the fortunes around for DC and Marvel. They just boosted sales by coming up with new gimmicks to get their shrinking fanbases to buy multiple copies of the latest "hot" comic -- most of which end up being worth not much more than cover price.

In a way, AT&T cares about the DC characters MORE than the fans do because AT&T/Warners are trying to come up with strategies to make their characters more prominent to the general public. They're not wasting time caring about what fans thought of "Heroes in Crisis" and creating a business strategy around that. And they shouldn't. What did HiC sell? 70k per issue? A multi-billion dollar media conglomerate can't care about 70,000 people.

The problem is that for decades DC and Marvel really have only been playing lip service to the idea of opening up new markets, but now AT&T has made it clear that THAT is the future of DC Comics, and they're right in doing so.

When we live in a world where Dog-Man outsells Batman or Spider-Man, something has gone horribly wrong with the way that comics companies have been running their businesses.

I'm glad AT&T is putting a stop to that. I'd love to hear someday that a Batman OGN aimed at the preteen market sold half a million copies in just a couple of weeks the way Dog-Man does.

I get that we may be losing some niche titles, but I think that OGNs in the bookstore might actually be able to support some niche titles that have an interesting mythology behind them. A Hawkman-Hawkwoman OGN series that explores the reincarnation aspect over the centuries could support an OGN once a year, I think. Other characters like Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld has multiplatform potential written all over it -- OGNs, animated films, and video games all exploring her unique fantasy world. Magical princesses have always been strong sellers with the preteen girl market, and maybe AT&T will actually see the potential of some of these underexploited characters.

I'm going to be optimistic in saying that, yes, I believe AT&T will exit the comic shop market to a very significant degree within the next five years, but I think it will be more than balanced with new and bigger markets opening everywhere else.

I'd be perfectly happy with a Batman OGN aimed at preteens doing well, but I'd also in general just like to see good Batman stories and stories with the Bafamily...which I'm not sure I'll get as much of if DC limits their capacity to just OGN's. And that's true for other properties.

But that's probably just the traditionalist in me talking.

[The no face guy]

While I think it's great that they are getting smart & innovative with their marketing ideas in promoting digital sales...I don't think they should be abandoning comic shops, and specifically not comic conventions. (You have to keep your old fanbase happy while trying to expand a new one)

Marvel just experimented with some of their mid weight titles (Dr Strange, Ghostrider) on putting out digital comics only, and they didn't sell well enough, so they cancelled them, as they discovered the bulk of comic fans still want the paper product....which might be a good thing considering how easy it is to bootleg and upload digital comics for free.

I simply don't trust Warner Brothers, they love using DC comics to make them millions of dollars in movies and tv shows, but it seems like there content to axe the comic industry that brought them to the game.

Apparently DC comics was confined to a little kiosk at the last big comic convention, as everything was geared to the tv, movies, and video games, and if DC leaves, WB wants to keep the licensing rights for movies....if I was the head of DC I'd say get stuffed and find a better media company that actually cares about the comics.

[Menacer]

Maybe I dont understand the numbers.

People read books to escape screens...

Screenshot_20201112-205153_Chrome.jpg

[charliehustle415]

Maybe I dont understand the numbers.

People read books to escape screens...

Screenshot_20201112-205153_Chrome.jpg

I think the issue here is that it does not account for Covid-19.

These graphs mean nothing in front of a global pandemic - this is like showing a graph that people love watching movies and theaters instead of Netflix in 2019.

Also what is the source of this I would love to see where and how they got these numbers.

[Serpico Jones]

AT&T should just sell all of DC to Netflix or Amazon. It’s clear they view the comics as a waste and they also don’t appear to have much of a clue on the movies side either. AT&T is hemorrhaging money, they should be able to pull in at least a billion if they sold DC.

[Menacer]

I think the issue here is that it does not account for Covid-19.

These graphs mean nothing in front of a global pandemic - this is like showing a graph that people love watching movies and theaters instead of Netflix in 2019.

Also what is the source of this I would love to see where and how they got these numbers.

https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomi...ustrywide.html

Thats the source.


Yah I cant really comment on how the pandemic has effected book sales.

Im in canada, Victoria bc. We were shutdown for maybe 2 months...


By may things were open, by june -- beyond wearing a mask, or spacing seating out more, or limited numbers in a store at a time, --everything was normal.

Ive visited the comic shop and my used book store every Sunday since may ... for months... the stores are always packed...

Have no idea what it is like anywhere else...


The biggest hit to victoria has been the tourist industry...

Everything else seems fine...

And even if someone cant get a book at a store... people just buy from amazon... no?

[charliehustle415]

https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomi...ustrywide.html

Thats the source.


Yah I cant really comment on how the pandemic has effected book sales.

Im in canada, Victoria bc. We were shutdown for maybe 2 months and since... by may things were open, by june beyond wearing a mask, or spacing seating out more, or limited numbers in a store at a time, everything was normal.

Ive visited the comic shop and my used book store every Sunday since may ... for months... the stores are always packed...

Have no idea what it is like anywhere else...


The biggest hit to victoria has been the tourist industry...

Everything else seems fine...

And even if someone cant get a book at a store... people just buy from amazon... no?

Thanks!

Yeah Canada is dealing with the pandemic much better than over here in the States.

But movie chains have been closing, local mom and pops stores have been closing left and right, and established businesses are moving away from their "normal" business models.

I mean they tried forcing it like the movie Tenet (a WB/ATT movie) being released in movie theaters and it flopped super hard because even Nolan cannot get butts in seats during a pandemic (when the theaters were open).

So ATT knows whats up and I am guessing is looking for different avenues.

Physical books will always exist but single issue floppies may not, think about the pricing 3 issues can pay for a month of Netflix, and also the inconvenience of going to a physical store.

[Menacer]

Thanks!

Yeah Canada is dealing with the pandemic much better than over here in the States.

But movie chains have been closing, local mom and pops stores have been closing left and right, and established businesses are moving away from their "normal" business models.

I mean they tried forcing it like the movie Tenet (a WB/ATT movie) being released in movie theaters and it flopped super hard because even Nolan cannot get butts in seats during a pandemic (when the theaters were open).

So ATT knows whats up and I am guessing is looking for different avenues.

Physical books will always exist but single issue floppies may not, think about the pricing 3 issues can pay for a month of Netflix, and also the inconvenience of going to a physical store.

Yah I dont collect floppies... only trades...

So my head was more that if someone can purchase a digital book online, why can't they purchase a physical trade book online.

Ultimately the trades account for way more sales then floppies...

So digital floppies for hardcore make sense. Frankly who wants boxes and boxes of floppies sitting around, plus paper back are easy to resell, floppies are impossible to unload on a regular reader...

Trades physically may actually do better in a situation where people are stuck at home.... after all amazon sales were way up... but maybe thats wishful thinking

[charliehustle415]

Yah I dont collect floppies... only trades...

So my head was more that if someone can purchase a digital book online, why can't they purchase a physical trade book online.

Ultimately the trades account for way more sales then floppies...

So digital floppies for hardcore make sense. Frankly who wants boxes and boxes of floppies sitting around, plus paper back are easy to resell, floppies are impossible to unload on a regular reader...

Trades physically may actually do better in a situation where people are stuck at home.... after all amazon sales were way up... but maybe thats wishful thinking

And this is the issue at hand because Trades are so much cheaper on Amazon and once floppies are gone the only thing that Comic Shops have are Funko Pops.

So if the rumors are true it is game over for Comic Shops, because if stores like GameStop are barely making it - forget about local Comic Shops

[Menacer]

And this is the issue at hand because Trades are so much cheaper on Amazon and once floppies are gone the only thing that Comic Shops have are Funko Pops.

So if the rumors are true it is game over for Comic Shops, because if stores like GameStop are barely making it - forget about local Comic Shops

I mean we don't use steam engines anymore or blockbuster...

Its just normal part of progress, some business models just dont translate into the future...

The majority of my dinners are all hellofresh delivered to my door, healthy, portion smart, delicious meals easy to make... not that I dont use a grocery story, but these new models will greatly effect grocery stores...

[Badou]

The big reason why trade sales are above floppies is because the trade/Graphic Novel sales include things aimed at kids like Dog Man from publishers like Scholastic or Raina Telgemeier's works that can sell hundreds of thousands or even over a million copies for one volume in a year. So it isn't just traditional DC/Marvel trades or OGNs. There are reports about how traditional superhero trades from a Marvel and DC have actually been decreasing in sales even while the whole GN market is growing. So that is a bit worrying for these traditional comic publishers.

So the big issue a DC faces with trying to move away from floppies is that is still were the majority of their revenue comes from. I think by a pretty large amount too. Digital sales haven't really been growing in the way I think some have hoped or thought years ago, and trade sales themselves can't make up for the loss in sales from floppies. The market just isn't there to buy a large amount of trades for all these series DC releases. Maybe a lot of readers would move over to trades if floppies were removed, but right now only a handful of trades from DC can even crack 10k sales in a year with most selling a few thousand probably, and if you remove floppies I don't know if readers are going to start buying tens of thousands or over a hundred thousand copies of volumes of all these different kind of series to make up for that loss in revenue. Since right now DC can charge $3 or $4 per issue on series that can move tens of thousands of copies of per month while also putting ads in them.

Also without floppies DC loses out on the speculators and variant cover market since that doesn't really exist in digital. So things like special anniversary issues probably aren't going to move hundreds of thousands of copies in digital because there is no real carrying value in buying it digitally. Since digital series are purely driven by reader interest in the story's content unlike floppies where there is value in the physical issue. I mean I do think that digital and trade sales are the future, but I just don't know how DC gets to that point without the traditional superhero comic market collapsing in on itself. It feels like they are kind of just stuck where they are.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Well, there may always be a way for the collectors' market to continue.

Clothing manufacturers sometimes make limited edition sneakers or jackets that sell to speculators and collectors for lots of money.

The point is that you can't abandon the mass market and JUST produce for the niche market -- especially if you are part of a multibillion dollar conglomerate with huge overhead.

Waners can still sell specialty DC Comics via mail, on Amazon, or at their theme parks and any Warner Studios stores that still exist, but the focus for these characters should always have been the mass market and keeping their IP highly visible.

I think that as comics storytelling started to grow up, the powers that be at DC and Marvel preferred the Direct Market because there was less public scrutiny there. It allowed DC to take risks in storytelling that they wouldn't be able to on the newsstand. It allowed DC to be under the radar as far as their Warner corporate overlords were concerned, and that's the way Kahn and Levitz wanted it.

The positive effect is that we got a lot of great comics and the Vertigo line that we wouldn't otherwise have gotten, but the negative effect is that the market kept shrinking and shrinking, and once the movies started to hit big, the corporate overlords weren't willing to keep ignoring their valuable IP. This would have happened even without the AT&T merger as Warners was looking to DC for new movie ideas when their Harry Potter franchise was over.

I think we as comics fans just need to get over this undying devotion to the LCS market that's on its last legs and just be happy that AT&T still wants to be in publishing. They're putting a lot of resources and money into expanding the bookstore market, and this will be an overall good thing for our comics characters.

[DragonPiece]

Personally I don't mind this as I haven't been to a comic shop in 2 years, but realistically, why would DC do this if they are still making monthly comics? Have sales for digital comics grown enough this year to where this would make sense for them?