How would you revamp Red Hood?

[Mundungus]

I want Jason to keep being the black sheep of the Bat-family. There always needs to be tension between Bruce and him, by extension everyone else. Though I kind of like the idea of Tim trying to reach out to him on occasion.

I also want him to drop the Red Hood identity and create a new one unique to him. On some level it made sense in his original appearance but it's weird that he continues to promote the identity of his own killer.

I would also streamline his resurrection story. Just keep it with Lazarus Pits and continue training with the League of Assasins before striking out on his own.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm in the "the entire DCU should have been rebooted" camp. So BATMAN would have been starting from scratch too. Dick would be Robin (or maybe was Robin for the 10 years but now is NIGHTWING) and we'd just be meeting Damien eventually. Along the road I'd say BATMAN tried to reach out to another kid, Jason Todd, but Jason proved unstable and Bruce and Dick kicked him out of the club house. I wouldn't even have him be "in on the secret", maybe he's only seen the BATCAVE and that's it. This would be before Bruce just had kids coming over to watch HBO with him late at night.

So we'd have "the bad seed" the kid who proved to be too violent for BATMAN AND ROBIN, and now he would be active on his own in Gotham as a vigilante trained by BATMAN but without Batman's code of ethics.

I'd have him start the OUTLAWS and start to mellow out a bit. He'd help BATMAN if he needed to I think, but I don't see them ever being friends.

[MykeHavoc]

I can't agree with him dropping the Red Hood moniker. It will always be a representation that he "took it back" from the Joker, literally and figuratively speaking, making it his own and owning the identity. Plus its identifiable and cool looking. Starting from scratch would only hurt the character, unlike say Grayson, whose name and past monikers had a much more widespread history and presence. I say keep the name and look. Its just a matter of finding an interesting direction to take him. If not a Red Hood/Red Robin series, than just drop the outlaws and have it focus on him solely. A change in writer is necessary. I'd personally love it if Winick came back. Few people have captured his personality the way Judd did. Someone had suggested doing something akin to the Hawkeye solo book. I agree. An absurdist noir romp could be real fun. Hell, I think Fraction is done at Marvel. Bring him over and have him jump on it. Anyway, all wishful thinking.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I can't agree with him dropping the Red Hood moniker. It will always be a representation that he "took it back" from the Joker, literally and figuratively speaking, making it his own and owning the identity. Plus its identifiable and cool looking. Starting from scratch would only hurt the character, unlike say Grayson, whose name and past monikers had a much more widespread history and presence. I say keep the name and look. Its just a matter of finding an interesting direction to take him. If not a Red Hood/Red Robin series, than just drop the outlaws and have it focus on him solely. A change in writer is necessary. I'd personally love it if Winick came back. Few people have captured his personality the way Judd did. Someone had suggested doing something akin to the Hawkeye solo book. I agree. An absurdist noir romp could be real fun. Hell, I think Fraction is done at Marvel. Bring him over and have him jump on it. Anyway, all wishful thinking.

A Hawkeye-kind of book is an interesting possibilty but again, not one that would be able to exist for long (Hawkeye's cancelled already). I disagree with the need of a new writer, Lobdell understand the characters as no one else (Pak has preven himself to write a great Jason but I don't know if he could pull off all the team) and Jason's Winnick is too one note and shallow for my tastes.

[MykeHavoc]

hawkeye is ending, not being canceled. Fraction is choosing to leave it as is. Plus it was having delays and such. Sales aren't an issue.

[MichaelAngel0]

A revamping of the Jason Todd character is just what the character needs. I also believe that that revamp should include removing himself from the Outlaws.

This upcoming venom addiction arc could be the easiest way to do that. Looking back on Jason's life before the Bat took him in (in the Nu52 reboot), fans will remember that crime had a huge hand in running his life into ground, and a big one was the selling of illegal drugs. Jason's mother was a drug addict, so much so that she would fall into coma like states for days at any given moment and it was up to a Jason to care for both him and her as a child; this for all intents and purposes never gave him the chance to have a childhood...or any sort of happiness in his life really. I feel that Jason should, honestly, have a far more deep hatred for crime than Bruce; to the point that he's obsessed with mitigated any criminal activity at any cost. The reason why he's so brutal, is because that's all he knew and saw growing up as basically street trash.

I think that deep seeded anger should be Jason's major driving force in everything he does/did; remembering his father coming back drunk every night, his mom being addicted to drugs, his father being arrested and leaving them, his mom "dying" via overdose, him having to steal to survive, the beatings he got, the gang affiliation, etc. He should be a lot more bitter, and cold, to the world and people like Bruce, Dick, Barbara, and Tim should really piss him off. He literally grew up on the dirty, crime-infested streets of Gotham, he'd never had a childhood, barely ever had a family, he always had it hard, and he'd never been truly understood by them. The other members of the Bat family had it good until a single tragedy shattered their world (other than Barbara, I think); his world began shattered.

I think him being addicted to the venom should bring all those memories and bottled up feelings back; to the point that he begins to doubt himself. That all he's been through so far has amounted to nothing, and that he's become what he was "always been destined" to become; that street trash kid, who grew up with trash for parents, eventually followed in their footstep and just became another statistic. He probably thought, "I'm not gonna end up like them. Not me.", but now he's caught questioning his abilities, his resolve and his path in life; he hates himself now. This results in him retiring, and quitting the team.

After, that I assume that Starfire and Arsenal join the either the Teen Titans (even tho, I'm pretty sure they're not teens...I think) or the Justice League United. They could even occasionally have guest roles later down the line as either friends or enemies.

I would then have Jason live as a bit of a recluse in Gotham City, but not doing any crime-fighting and using his skills to stay off the radars of the Bat family. He's changed his identity, dyed his hair red/orange (or brown; doesn't really matter) and even lives in a small in a small apartment in Park Row (where he feels he belongs, maybe...?). He really only goes out for the essentials, has a job as a clerk for Dr. Leslie Thompson and ignores the crime that happens all around him. Jason assumes that Bruce, and the others, can deal with it as they're better people than him anyways. Eventually, I'd have Scarlet introduced similar situation as he was when he was a kid. Fast forward, Jason ends up developing something of an older brother-like bond with her, but still keeps his distance for the most part; he's really just someone that listens, and relates, to her pain and the one person she can go to for a laugh (tho Jason is a recluse of sorts, he still retains his sarcastic charm). Eventually, Scarlet gets in serious trouble and, after a series of unfortunate events, is scarred physically (tho maybe not a bad as pre-Nu52) and is broken mentally by Pyg and Jason blames himself for this as well. However he's also places some of the blame on Batman: his not being the guardian of Gotham he says he is, when so many of the small people are left to fall through the cracks, and his unwillingness to end the people who constantly either take, or ruin, the lives of others like him and Scarlet.

He eventually finds Professor Pyg, beats him within an inch of his life, but allows Scarlet to finish him off. He would then vow to liberate Gotham, his city from the madness that infests it. Permanently; not control it, like he attempted before. However, he knows he's not ready for rogues of Gotham, or Batman, and decides to travel the world (or a new city, and also with Scarlet tagging along as well) stopping criminals as he comes across them, and training himself, until he reaches appoint when he can save Gotham and become its true guardian.

I see this version of Jason being very Max Payne like: he hates himself, doubts himself, and sees the world only in its worst light. He's got a bit of fatalism and a lot of skepticism in him, which come through via very cynical, sarcastic, and bitter comments about his actions and those of the people/world he sees around him. However, Scarlet serves as a symbol to remind him about why he's still fighting to save the world he views as beyond repair, and the engine that dives thru situations where he'd probably give up. Also, he kills his enemies, but only within reason; regardless, he's a frigid individual to all but a very small handful of people.

I feel like this take would be more Noir-like, with tragedy and black humor sprinkled about (Jason may be in a dark place, but he can still be funny when he's up to it).

[PyroSikTh]

um no, there's no point in regressing a character.

There is if he's drifted so far away from his original point. He's not unique or interesting any more, he's just another generic Robin.

[EdwardNigma]

Have him be a solo character out to take out criminals and Batman like he was in Under the Red Hood. The character has gone downhill dramatically since they took away that conflict between Jason and Bruce.

[Kid A]

Have him be a solo character out to take out criminals and Batman like he was in Under the Red Hood. The character has gone downhill dramatically since they took away that conflict between Jason and Bruce.

Or you can just go reread UtH

[exile001]

Or you can just go reread UtH

Then why would we need him? I prefer the take in UtH as it gave him a unique place in the Batman universe. Bringing him back from the dead was a vehicle to create a new Jason Todd and give him a place in the DCU.

If he's basically another Robin (in a cooler suit), what would be his purpose?

I don't want him fighting Batman every issue, but I'm not too keen on the status quo that's been settled on.

[Dzetoun]

Then why would we need him? I prefer the take in UtH as it gave him a unique place in the Batman universe. Bringing him back from the dead was a vehicle to create a new Jason Todd and give him a place in the DCU.

If he's basically another Robin (in a cooler suit), what would be his purpose?

I don't want him fighting Batman every issue, but I'm not too keen on the status quo that's been settled on.

The problem was that Jason of UTRH didn't have a viable place in the DCU. They were never going to offer up meaningful (i.e. profitable) villains for him to kill, and having him kill non-entities would get real old, real fast. Having him try to kill major villains and fail, that is constantly repeat UTRH, was a non-starter for obvious reasons. As for constantly fighting with Bruce, they did that and it got divisive and tiresome. So the options were:

1) Kill him again;
2) Make him an out and out villain;
3) Move him closer to the Bat Family, even if that meant losing some of the unique aspects of the character.

Doing one made no sense after going to all the trouble to resurrect him, besides he quickly developed a fan base and started bringing in money. They played around with the second option, but too many people found him too sympathetic, a fact that I think caught them by surprise. So the third option was really the only move they had.

[Godlike13]

Well moving him closer to the Bat Family, and the RHatO title in general has gotten old pretty fast. So they're gonna need to come up with some new options.

Also Jason wouldn't be the first lead character in a comic that kills, or tries to kill, his opponents. It can be done, and often is. Though more so at Marvel then DC.

[MichaelAngel0]

The problem was that Jason of UTRH didn't have a viable place in the DCU. They were never going to offer up meaningful (i.e. profitable) villains for him to kill, and having him kill non-entities would get real old, real fast. Having him try to kill major villains and fail, that is constantly repeat UTRH, was a non-starter for obvious reasons. As for constantly fighting with Bruce, they did that and it got divisive and tiresome. So the options were:

1) Kill him again;
2) Make him an out and out villain;
3) Move him closer to the Bat Family, even if that meant losing some of the unique aspects of the character.

Doing one made no sense after going to all the trouble to resurrect him, besides he quickly developed a fan base and started bringing in money. They played around with the second option, but too many people found him too sympathetic, a fact that I think caught them by surprise. So the third option was really the only move they had.

I think it's entirely possible to have Jason be a killer, that kills non-major league villains; you just gotta have a writer that can make the threat compelling and sell you on the villain. If it can be done with the current Black Widow and Punisher books, it can be done with a more interesting character like Jason Todd.

Debut Nu52 versions of David Cain (and Cassandra Cain), or Anarky, or KGBeast, or, Prometheus (write him to be what Jason Todd could've become if not saved by Dr. Thompson and Bruce) , or Blight (a new member of the Pwers family, but in the present), bring back the Red Hood Gang in another city, like Star City (it could involve and newly introduced Mia, and could use elements of Jason and Mia's pre-Nu52 versions to build a relationship there), etc.

There's stuff that can be done, and there's a way to separate him from Bat family and the Outlaws in order to get it to happen. Did you read my wall of text above? If so, what did you think of it?

[Godlike13]

I got another idea. Though to me i think there are too many Nightwing-esks character running around as it is, so i would not be for this. Still i could see this appealing to those who like a more heroic Jason. Have him drop the Red Hood persona, and try exploring him as Wingman again.

So ya, these are my 3 ideas.
1. Go Travis Kidd with him, but with a more punk rock look than rockabilly
2. Have him join the Suicide Squad.
3. Explore him as Wingman.

[Dzetoun]

There's stuff that can be done, and there's a way to separate him from Bat family and the Outlaws in order to get it to happen. Did you read my wall of text above? If so, what did you think of it?[/FONT]

I found it very interesting, but to fully respond I'd have to give a wall myself and I don't have the time at the moment. If you would like, I'll PM you later so as to avoid taking up space on the board. My brief response is that it is very well thought out and could serve as the basis for many good stories, but it strikes me as a Vertigo title more than a DCU title.