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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Dude how can you not like giant robots! Are Sentinels not cool as hell for you?
    Go read Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye and it's continuation Transformers: Lost Light if you want to see some really GREAT giant robot stories.

    IF Mark Waid gets the job his impressive track record with DC and Marvel superheroes (not to mention his work on other characters and his creator owned work) I think Superman will be in good hands.

  2. #47
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Except that’s insanely convoluted and on par with “Time Trapper made a parallel pocket universe to explain why Superboy was able to hang out with the Legion post Byrne” and Donna Troy’s origins. Those kinds of convoluted explanations don’t work because they make stuff over complicated for the casuals. Trying to have your cake and eat it hasn’t worked for DC so far.

    The whole reason for the change was movie synergy. Movie synergy doesn’t work the moment you go “it’s just like that movie you saw but...” because the “but” is always something off putting to newcomers. That’s my opinion anyway, me, I’m just disappointed because I don’t think whatever new origin Diana gets is going to be better than what Rucka gave her.
    How is it synergy? In the movie, she started in World War One, in the comics, it's World War Two. That matches the golden age comics, not the movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I hasten to add that DC was hyping up something like this for DCYou, and all the happened was Johns JL ignored the status quo of Batman and Superman. I don’t think it will be as extreme as rumors make it out to be.

    Vast swaths of DC continuity are already pointless. Byrne’s stuff is out and has been for a while. They retconned WW’s origin again, meaning Rucka’s origin got retconned out. Nothing from Pre-FP Aquaman has carried over. The past 30 years continuity is already patchy at best.
    Shazam and Supergirl have no pre-Flashpoint history either.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Perry White naming Superman... yeah, the Arrowverse used that idea, the hero's name being coined by a news publication editor. It was Cat Grant who named Supergirl. Kara herself would've preferred Superwoman but couldn't protest because Cat didn't know her secret identity yet.
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  3. #48
    Mighty Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Perry White naming Superman... yeah, the Arrowverse used that idea, the hero's name being coined by a news publication editor. It was Cat Grant who named Supergirl. Kara herself would've preferred Superwoman but couldn't protest because Cat didn't know her secret identity yet.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Man, I'll say it. I don't care for the Superman 2000 pitch. I know a lot of guys enjoy it, but I remember not being sold last I read it and I don't know if time would have sweetened it. Hopefully the direction Waid goes in, should the rumors be true, isn't that.

    And no divorce. Please. Superman ending up with Lois Lane is the most forgone conclusion in superhero comics. If they're just going to return to the classic setup that's just more harm than good at this point. I'm fine with it in adaptions or other stories, but I just infinitely prefer them married.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Ultimate Justice League, barring John, just looks awful. Hard pass on that whole thing. Bendis' line? Hard pass on it too. Even his take on their marriage is a BIG "WTF!?".

    No, I don't particularly care for the Legion of Superheroes, let alone the United Planets. And tossing the secret identity out? Still hate it.

    No more of the Bendis "marriage" thing, but focusing more on Lois is a good start. Have Jon as a kid again (having 3 Supers all about the same age is more than redundant, its ridiculous). Secret ID is back (Mr. Mxy does a snap of the fingers, everything is fixed). Lois and Clark tag team on their job, with Jon sometimes tagging along, other times staying with Damian.

  7. #52
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    I think some of the things Bendis tried will be slowly rolled back (no secret identity, aged-up Jon, Jon inspiring the Legion). I hope they go back to having different creators on every Superman family book with coordination between the creators so all the books fit together.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Man, I'll say it. I don't care for the Superman 2000 pitch. I know a lot of guys enjoy it, but I remember not being sold last I read it and I don't know if time would have sweetened it. Hopefully the direction Waid goes in, should the rumors be true, isn't that.

    And no divorce. Please. Superman ending up with Lois Lane is the most forgone conclusion in superhero comics. If they're just going to return to the classic setup that's just more harm than good at this point. I'm fine with it in adaptions or other stories, but I just infinitely prefer them married.
    It's fun to speculate on an alternate world but having read through the pitch again somewhat recently, I think I enjoy the stuff that mined stuff from it for other stories (All-Star, Red Son, Birthright) than I would enjoyed it as an actual status quo

  9. #54
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Except that’s insanely convoluted and on par with “Time Trapper made a parallel pocket universe to explain why Superboy was able to hang out with the Legion post Byrne” and Donna Troy’s origins. Those kinds of convoluted explanations don’t work because they make stuff over complicated for the casuals. Trying to have your cake and eat it hasn’t worked for DC so far.

    The whole reason for the change was movie synergy. Movie synergy doesn’t work the moment you go “it’s just like that movie you saw but...” because the “but” is always something off putting to newcomers. That’s my opinion anyway, me, I’m just disappointed because I don’t think whatever new origin Diana gets is going to be better than what Rucka gave her.
    Most things in comics are convoluted if you look into them deeply enough. What matters is how good the stories moving forward are. To most new readers, Diana's origin will be the one they saw in the movie, so that's what they're leaning into. Unfortunately, Rucka's origin hasn't blown up the sails of any of the people I've given it to, so I can't say that I'm surprised that DC is side-stepping Year One in favor of something that's more similar to the movie that most everyone liked.

    Likewise, a consistent continuity is only important to a small segment of fans. Most are perfectly happy with Steve Trevor being alive as long as some explanation is given. Besides, Steve Trevor being continually killed off and brought back from the dead in convoluted fashion is a WW tradition at this point

  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Man, I'll say it. I don't care for the Superman 2000 pitch. I know a lot of guys enjoy it, but I remember not being sold last I read it and I don't know if time would have sweetened it. Hopefully the direction Waid goes in, should the rumors be true, isn't that.

    And no divorce. Please. Superman ending up with Lois Lane is the most forgone conclusion in superhero comics. If they're just going to return to the classic setup that's just more harm than good at this point. I'm fine with it in adaptions or other stories, but I just infinitely prefer them married.
    Divorce just doesn't work. Its too depressing and concretely destroys the Lois and Clark dynamic. It'd take years to organically get the characters back to a good place and in the mean time there'd be too much bad feelings that would get old really fast. Superman's mythos shouldn't have to be all rainbows and sunshine all the time, but this would be a case of an organic direction to change something not being worth the effort for all it'd mess up in the meantime. If they wanted to get rid of the marriage, and I remain convinced they should, it'd have to be an erasure of it ever happening OMD style. OMD sucked mainly because the story was bad. The main point of it would have always been controversial, just as this would, but had the story been good and done with sense, it would have been somewhat easier to swallow. Something like that would have to be done to erase the marriage and hopefully that story would be good. I wholly disagree the classic setup would do more harm than good though. IMO its the family aspect that's doing more harm than good. Jon way more than the marriage ever could, admittedly, but the marriage has watered down the Lois/Clark dynamic for two decades now. It would help that aspect. I mean, if Waid can come in and make their relationship engaging and exciting again whilst married, great. I just haven't seen it.

    All that said I expect none of these things to happen for synchronization purposes with other media, and right now Superman's most immediate upcoming other adaptation is One Tree Smallville. In that regard I'm sadly anticipating a doubling down of the family crap, as opposed to easing up.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-23-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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  11. #56
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    It feels incredibly weird to say this (and others may have too) but I can't help getting Invincible and Dragon Ball vibes from Superman and Lois having Jon and everything. That being said, I want them to mine ideas from DC 1 Million which gave us a really great idea of Superman's potential lineage. Bringing in Solaris as a major threat is something I really want to see. I want to see Kathy Branden back as Beacon and have some follow up on Jon's friendship with her. Keeping the United Planets around and developing some major ongoing supporting characters out of that and out of the different Earth governments' reaction to all this would be great too. I think we can still get some great mileage out of the fallout of the secret identity reveal, especially if in universe it results in Superman feeling more accessible to the general public. I like the idea of him trying to continue acting as a reporter and being faced with challenges with that. There's something I like about Superman feeling more accessible while also having more cosmic adventures. If they can move towards showing Superman inspiring heroism in others more often in the stories as well as mentoring heroes I'd like that.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Go read Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye and it's continuation Transformers: Lost Light if you want to see some really GREAT giant robot stories.

    IF Mark Waid gets the job his impressive track record with DC and Marvel superheroes (not to mention his work on other characters and his creator owned work) I think Superman will be in good hands.
    I really want Waid to finally get his shot.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Man, I'll say it. I don't care for the Superman 2000 pitch. I know a lot of guys enjoy it, but I remember not being sold last I read it and I don't know if time would have sweetened it. Hopefully the direction Waid goes in, should the rumors be true, isn't that.

    And no divorce. Please. Superman ending up with Lois Lane is the most forgone conclusion in superhero comics. If they're just going to return to the classic setup that's just more harm than good at this point. I'm fine with it in adaptions or other stories, but I just infinitely prefer them married.
    I would be very interested in reading the final iteration of the pitch “Superman Now”. That apparently kept the marriage and was more Morrison driven, while the Superman 2000 pitch was driven by Waid & Millar apparently. That’s why I refer back to it as a good window into Waid’s approach, although he would clearly have changed as a creator since then and may take a different direction. I don’t expect he’d do anything to the marriage, or that DC would let him. Supes is with Lois in the DCEU, and is married with kids in the upcoming TV show. Brand synergy demands the marriage and kid stick around, no matter who gets the book, since synergy will apparently be an important part of DC in the future.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Idk if they will make Superman single again. Now with Jon

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Idk if they will make Superman single again. Now with Jon
    Mainline Superman? No. He’ll be married and a dad going forward. But they could do stories set outside of Earth 0 that star unmarried versions of Superman.

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