Amazing Spider-Man 53 Discussion

[Lukmendes]

When people talk about Ultimates, the only thing that comes to me is "Are you sure that this wasn't a parody?".

Is just such a bizarre story, that is hard for me to see it as some sort of modernization

I mean, everything about Hulk makes it sound like a parody, guy's a cannibal, even more ridiculously easy to piss off than Savage, talks a lot about sex, and to top it off, Betty is rather blatantly turned on when talking about seeing a video about Hulk eating that other guy, and even talks about getting conjugal visits because of it, yeah... Moments like this make it feel like a tryhard fanfiction that has those moments for the sake of being tryhard.

Funnily enough the infamous "You think this letter in my head stands for France?", isn't really a tryhard moment if you know the context, since in issue#13, Cap says that he said it in the heat of the moment, which is fair enough, one can say dumb **** when so full of adrenaline.

By the way, my absolute favorite moment from it:



(Ultimates#13)

It's such a ridiculous way to make Hulk help, even if smart considering he can't really be reasoned with, so dumb to make Hulk into someone who you need to do something like that for him to help, and to top it all of, the "HULK STRAIGHT!" line, holy ****, I was laughed for a bit at this lol.

The Ultimates actually began production before 9/11. But in the middle of it the attacks happened and that changed the mood of the comic completely. Which is why Mark Millar's claims later that he was being critical of US policy is baloney, because in the immediate aftermath of the attacks the global opinion was on America's side. Originally Millar and Bryan Hitch had intended The Ultimates to be a light-hearted thing closer in spirit to the classic stories. It was Bryan Hitch who was the one who pushed for that and Hitch is in a sense the more defining and influential creative force than Millar on The Ultimates.

Millar planning Ultimates to be light hearted sounds hard to believe, guy seems like Garth Ennis, in the sense he really loves to be a tryhard lol.

So much for "never forget"...we repeated it so often that people ended up forgetting. That and I think the Pandemic (which kills double the 9/11 deathtolls every week in USA) has kind of overshadowed it now.

Plus that was 19 fucking years ago, as tragic as it was, it happened long ago, and being so fixated about the past ain't healthy.

Mark Millar is fundamentally an opportunist and a hack. He's out to do and say the most provocative things to get attention and fame. So I think with Ultimates and his other comics, he was catering to a certrain strain of conservative or conservative-curious comics fan.

Would explain why there's so much cannibalism in Ultimate, hell, fucking Marvel Zombies debutted in Ultimate comics, that's how much cannibalism that guy liked to include lol.

[PCN24454]

Wait a second. Why did Harry have a problem with Black Cat again? Was he mad that Peter undid the spell that OMD did on someone?

[TheCape]

I mean, everything about Hulk makes it sound like a parody, guy's a cannibal, even more ridiculously easy to piss off than Savage, talks a lot about sex, and to top it off, Betty is rather blatantly turned on when talking about seeing a video about Hulk eating that other guy, and even talks about getting conjugal visits because of it, yeah... Moments like this make it feel like a tryhard fanfiction that has those moments for the sake of being tryhard.

Funnily enough the infamous "You think this letter in my head stands for France?", isn't really a tryhard moment if you know the context, since in issue#13, Cap says that he said it in the heat of the moment, which is fair enough, one can say dumb **** when so full of adrenaline.

By the way, my absolute favorite moment from it:



(Ultimates#13)

It's such a ridiculous way to make Hulk help, even if smart considering he can't really be reasoned with, so dumb to make Hulk into someone who you need to do something like that for him to help, and to top it all of, the "HULK STRAIGHT!" line, holy ****, I was laughed for a bit at this lol.



Millar planning Ultimates to be light hearted sounds hard to believe, guy seems like Garth Ennis, in the sense he really loves to be a tryhard lol.



Plus that was 19 fucking years ago, as tragic as it was, it happened long ago, and being so fixated about the past ain't healthy.



Would explain why there's so much cannibalism in Ultimate, hell, fucking Marvel Zombies debutted in Ultimate comics, that's how much cannibalism that guy liked to include lol.

Yeah, is the cannibal thing that takes me away from that story for how often it happen, was there anyone in that universe that wasn't a canibal, even Magneto was apparently, at least Kirkman zombie could make laught in a very depressing way but they could be funny.

Also that panel is gold lol.

[TheCape]

Wait a second. Why did Harry have a problem with Black Cat again? Was he mad that Peter undid the spell that OMD did on someone?

He was mad with Peter for revealing the secret because it would drag her down with him into his problems again and consider her another of Peter's "victims".

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Also that panel is gold lol.

How a dude went from writing that to something actually great like MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN is beyond me?

MK:SM had great dialogue, action, poignant character moments.

The other thing that sinks Millar's work on Ultimate Marvel is the casual homophobia of the time. I get that it's the ironic kind but it does leap into no-homo territory.

[TheCape]

How a dude went from writing that to something actually great like MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN is beyond me?

MK:SM had great dialogue, action, poignant character moments.

The other thing that sinks Millar's work on Ultimate Marvel is the casual homophobia of the time. I get that it's the ironic kind but it does leap into no-homo territory.

He also writes a pretty decent Superman, honestly in my expirience he is better when you put him limits and don't give him too much liberty, otherwise you get stuff like the rednecks Hulks from Old Man Logan.

Also yeah, a lot of Millar stuff always gave me that vibe.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, is the cannibal thing that takes me away from that story for how often it happen, was there anyone in that universe that wasn't a canibal, even Magneto was apparently, at least Kirkman zombie could make laught in a very depressing way but they could be funny.

To be fair, it's only like 4 characters who were cannibals, if you don't count the entirety of Marvel Zombies, it's just Venom, Magneto, Hulk, and Blob, so technically it doesn't show up much, but it's so weird that it's such a recurring element lol.

At the very least, Venom is probably the one that makes the most sense, since Ultimate Venom is way more parasitic in nature.

Also that panel is gold lol.

I thought Hulk couldn't get more ridiculous than Bruce's reasoning for becoming Hulk again, he basically felt insecure, wanted to be strong again, became Hulk, and Hulk kept talking about how he wants to **** Betty and not allow anyone else to do so, but then this moment happens lol.

Also this happened:



(Ultimates#5)

I've yet to read Ultimates 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hulk ends up getting even weirder moments, he's easily my favorite character, for all the wrong reasons .

He also writes a pretty decent Superman, honestly in my expirience he is better when you put him limits and don't give him too much liberty, otherwise you get stuff like the rednecks Hulks from Old Man Logan.

Ah, so he's one of those writers, too much liberty and he starts to **** up, makes sense.

Redneck Hulks though, what the hell is up between Millar and incest? There's this, he also heavily implied the incest between Wanda and Pietro in Ultimates which all Loeb did was confirm (And for whatever reason talk about it like it's normal and that Cap's values are outdated, yeah), wonder what else he made... At least he didn't imply incest between Peter and aunt May when he wrote Marvel Knights, 'cause I don't doubt he'd do it if allowed lol.

[PCN24454]

How a dude went from writing that to something actually great like MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN is beyond me?

MK:SM had great dialogue, action, poignant character moments.

The other thing that sinks Millar's work on Ultimate Marvel is the casual homophobia of the time. I get that it's the ironic kind but it does leap into no-homo territory.

MK:SM was always hit or miss, so it makes sense that there'd be huge gaps in quality.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I thought Hulk couldn't get more ridiculous than Bruce's reasoning for becoming Hulk again, he basically felt insecure, wanted to be strong again, became Hulk, and Hulk kept talking about how he wants to **** Betty and not allow anyone else to do so, but then this moment happens lol.

Millar seems to hate Hulk for some reason. I mean Hulk used to be a cult hero in the '60s as a kind of anti-authoritarian rebel against the US Military Industrial Complex. Millar decided to make that character into a WMD pet serving the M-I Complex distracted by sex and violence. If you squint that could be seen as a kind of commentary on how genre fiction subliminally programs teenagers into becoming narcs, but Millar means it sincerely.

Ah, so he's one of those writers, too much liberty and he starts to **** up, makes sense.

A lot of writers are like that. Morrison, Millar, Dan Slott is another.

At least he didn't imply incest between Peter and aunt May when he wrote Marvel Knights, 'cause I don't doubt he'd do it if allowed lol.

Hmm...look up a comic called Trouble and see who's the writer of that. Better yet don't cause it's terrible.

[TheCape]

To be fair, it's only like 4 characters who were cannibals, if you don't count the entirety of Marvel Zombies, it's just Venom, Magneto, Hulk, and Blob, so technically it doesn't show up much, but it's so weird that it's such a recurring element lol.

At the very least, Venom is probably the one that makes the most sense, since Ultimate Venom is way more parasitic in nature.



I thought Hulk couldn't get more ridiculous than Bruce's reasoning for becoming Hulk again, he basically felt insecure, wanted to be strong again, became Hulk, and Hulk kept talking about how he wants to **** Betty and not allow anyone else to do so, but then this moment happens lol.

Also this happened:



(Ultimates#5)

I've yet to read Ultimates 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hulk ends up getting even weirder moments, he's easily my favorite character, for all the wrong reasons .



Ah, so he's one of those writers, too much liberty and he starts to **** up, makes sense.

Redneck Hulks though, what the hell is up between Millar and incest? There's this, he also heavily implied the incest between Wanda and Pietro in Ultimates which all Loeb did was confirm (And for whatever reason talk about it like it's normal and that Cap's values are outdated, yeah), wonder what else he made... At least he didn't imply incest between Peter and aunt May when he wrote Marvel Knights, 'cause I don't doubt he'd do it if allowed lol.

Yeah and Venom did like to talk about eating brains so is not an idea that came out of nowhere (even if Eddie was serious about it).

I also knew about that scene, thought i think that Hulk doesn't appear much in Ultimates 2.

Oh man, you should read Jack's recomendation, i did promised you something to make you forget MJ-Carnage right

[Lukmendes]

How a dude went from writing that to something actually great like MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN is beyond me?

MK:SM had great dialogue, action, poignant character moments.

My favorite moment from it:



(MK:SM#6)

Millar seems to hate Hulk for some reason. I mean Hulk used to be a cult hero in the '60s as a kind of anti-authoritarian rebel against the US Military Industrial Complex. Millar decided to make that character into a WMD pet serving the M-I Complex distracted by sex and violence. If you squint that could be seen as a kind of commentary on how genre fiction subliminally programs teenagers into becoming narcs, but Millar means it sincerely.

Ironic to pick a character who was against the military and put him into a story that's pretty much pro-military, which he claims it's against it...

A lot of writers are like that. Morrison, Millar, Dan Slott is another.

Thing about Millar is that it sounds like he's pretty consistent about fucking up if he they let him do too much, at the very least Morrison can do pretty good ****, or trainwrecks, but there's a chance something good can come out of it.

Slott, was about to ask how he fucks up if they let him do too much, then I remembered Superior, and what he did with Felicia, and Silk... It's like a domino effect lol.

Hmm...look up a comic called Trouble and see who's the writer of that. Better yet don't cause it's terrible.

I'm aware of Trouble and that Millar wrote it, and as ridiculous as it is for aunt May and uncle Ben to have been swingers, and that May is actually Peter's mother, as far as I'm aware, no incest, or at least nobody talked about Ben and Richard fucking each other.

Just realized, uncle Ben and aunt May being swingers in Trouble makes MJ's comment from ASM#45 even funnier:

Yeah and Venom did like to talk about eating brains so is not an idea that came out of nowhere (even if Eddie was serious about it).

There's that too, and considering that Ultimate likes to flanderize a character's worst traits for 616, Ultimate Venom was surprisingly not that bad about it, hell, I'm pretty sure Gargan as Venom was worse.

I also knew about that scene, thought i think that Hulk doesn't appear much in Ultimates 2.

Aww, that sucks, why remove the best thing about it?

Oh man, you should read Jack's recomendation, i did promised you something to make you forget MJ-Carnage right

Y'know, when someone wants to forget something, it helps to not be reminded of it not even a week later :P.

I'm reading Trouble now though, similar to Ultimate Hulk, it sounds like one of those things that's so bad it becomes good.

One thing that immediately made me raise an eyebrow is that aunt May is a redhead there, wonder if Millar was planning a sequel where it'd be revealed that she's also MJ's mother, and maybe end it with the first time Peter and MJ' meet at the end of ASM#42 :P

[TheCape]

My favorite moment from it:



(MK:SM#6)



Ironic to pick a character who was against the military and put him into a story that's pretty much pro-military, which he claims it's against it...



Thing about Millar is that it sounds like he's pretty consistent about fucking up if he they let him do too much, at the very least Morrison can do pretty good ****, or trainwrecks, but there's a chance something good can come out of it.

Slott, was about to ask how he fucks up if they let him do too much, then I remembered Superior, and what he did with Felicia, and Silk... It's like a domino effect lol.



I'm aware of Trouble and that Millar wrote it, and as ridiculous as it is for aunt May and uncle Ben to have been swingers, and that May is actually Peter's mother, as far as I'm aware, no incest, or at least nobody talked about Ben and Richard fucking each other.

Just realized, uncle Ben and aunt May being swingers in Trouble makes MJ's comment from ASM#45 even funnier:





There's that too, and considering that Ultimate likes to flanderize a character's worst traits for 616, Ultimate Venom was surprisingly not that bad about it, hell, I'm pretty sure Gargan as Venom was worse.



Aww, that sucks, why remove the best thing about it?



Y'know, when someone wants to forget something, it helps to not be reminded of it not even a week later :P.

I'm reading Trouble now though, similar to Ultimate Hulk, it sounds like one of those things that's so bad it becomes good.

One thing that immediately made me raise an eyebrow is that aunt May is a redhead there, wonder if Millar was planning a sequel where it'd be revealed that she's also MJ's mother, and maybe end it with the first time Peter and MJ' meet at the end of ASM#42 :P

Don't lose hope man, i haven't read Ultimates 2 so i could be wrong, is just what i heard.

As for Ultimate Venom, yeah he wasn't that bad about it probably because Bendis commented about how much he hated Venom for his Lethal Protector phase in the 90s, still he seemed to be happy to put Gargan in that position, i think that he ate people regurlary in Dark Avengers (plus his awfull mini), my biggest problem with Ultimate Venom apart from being one hight school girl away from being a hentai monster, is how bland he was, LP Venom was trash but at least he has a personality. Plus that whole "failed cure for cancer" was just odd, like aliens were to unrealistic for the modern and 100% real Ultimate universe, i know that it probablu has to do with that whole genetic war that was totally gonna come but it still felt ramdom.

[FFJamie94]

Ultimates 2 is leaps and bounds better than the first volume.
I don't mind the Ultimates, they can be edgelord at times and Captain America is a racist homophobe. But I enjoy it mostly because I like to see stories where the protagonists are the worst People.
My problem with Millar is that he works best when in limitations of a Universe that isn't his own.
MKSM, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, I enjoyed all of these by him. He'll, I recently read 1985 and thought that was at least half decent. But Nemesis and Wanted, I really didn't like those.
Nemesis was ultimately pointless and Wanted had the potential to tell a great story. There was a set-up to do something amazing in regards to the alternative universes and Heroes from those teaming up to take down the villains of this universe. But we didn't get that.

[NC_Yankee]

I mean, everything about Hulk makes it sound like a parody, guy's a cannibal, even more ridiculously easy to piss off than Savage, talks a lot about sex, and to top it off, Betty is rather blatantly turned on when talking about seeing a video about Hulk eating that other guy, and even talks about getting conjugal visits because of it, yeah... Moments like this make it feel like a tryhard fanfiction that has those moments for the sake of being tryhard.

Funnily enough the infamous "You think this letter in my head stands for France?", isn't really a tryhard moment if you know the context, since in issue#13, Cap says that he said it in the heat of the moment, which is fair enough, one can say dumb **** when so full of adrenaline.

By the way, my absolute favorite moment from it:



(Ultimates#13)

It's such a ridiculous way to make Hulk help, even if smart considering he can't really be reasoned with, so dumb to make Hulk into someone who you need to do something like that for him to help, and to top it all of, the "HULK STRAIGHT!" line, holy ****, I was laughed for a bit at this lol.



Millar planning Ultimates to be light hearted sounds hard to believe, guy seems like Garth Ennis, in the sense he really loves to be a tryhard lol.



Plus that was 19 fucking years ago, as tragic as it was, it happened long ago, and being so fixated about the past ain't healthy.



Would explain why there's so much cannibalism in Ultimate, hell, fucking Marvel Zombies debutted in Ultimate comics, that's how much cannibalism that guy liked to include lol.

I cannot disagree more. I lived in New York during 9/11 and you cannot forget it, even almost 20 years later. FDR said about Pearl Harbor “December 7th 1941, a day which will live in infamy.” He was exactly right, and it is the same about 9/11.

[FFJamie94]

I cannot disagree more. I lived in New York during 9/11 and you cannot forget it, even almost 20 years later. FDR said about Pearl Harbor “December 7th 1941, a day which will live in infamy.” He was exactly right, and it is the same about 9/11.

I think it's more of a case of if you were in New York at the time or live in New York, then it's understand why that memory would still be there.

But if you live on the other side of the Country, there's no reason why 9/11 should still effect you like it did 19 years ago. For New York, it happened yesterday, for everyone else, it's a distant memory that we shouldn't forget, but not act as if it's still a recent thing.

But maybe that's just me, I mean I live in a City which got bomber 4 years later over two days and within a year, it was practically shrugged off. Different cultures create different minds.