Amazing Spider-Man 53 Discussion

[Vortex85]

I feel like the padding in this arc isn't so bad in isolation without considering how long it took to get here. I think a lot of this arc will read better to future readers in hindsight and will appreciate this issue in particular for the experience it gives. I think it's so frustrating now because we are all anxious for answers and want to get to the point already. But when you already know the point, it may make the journey more fun to see how it played out to get there.

[WebSlingWonder]

I feel like the padding in this arc isn't so bad in isolation without considering how long it took to get here. I think a lot of this arc will read better to future readers in hindsight and will appreciate this issue in particular for the experience it gives. I think it's so frustrating now because we are all anxious for answers and want to get to the point already. But when you already know the point, it may make the journey more fun to see how it played out to get there.

I get that, but we can't keep treating this run like it's perfect, which is what a lot of people have been doing (myself included, I'll admit). It's high time to point out that there are a lot of things that need to be fixed with Spencer's writing of ASM, and these past two issues highlight that fact in spades.

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah...not exactly thrilled by this issue. And I definitely agree with the following:

1. This should've been the issue in which Kindred revealed himself as Harry Osborn, not Amazing Spider-Man #50. Sure, Peter doesn't know who Kindred is, because we already know who Kindred is going in, the last "Gotcha" page loses all it's punch.
2. The padding and decompression is getting ridiculous. I mean, when more plot developments are happening in the tie-in issues, something is wrong.
3. The definite subtext here is that Harry has been manipulating events to keep Peter and MJ apart since the start of Brand New Day. If it was deliberate then it kind of contradicts a few key story lines from "Brand New Day." Though I'm sure some will go, "Would that really be so bad?"
4. Carlie wasn't "in on it," but she definitely seems like she was an unknowing pawn in Harry/Kindred's schemes. Which, come to think of it, would be par for course. After all, she trusted Lily Hollister (Menace), Vin Gonzales (who tried framing Spider-Man as a serial killer), her father (a corrupt forensic examiner for the mob) and Captain Yuri Watanbee (the murderous vigilante Wraith) didn't she?

If Spencer is going to rehash BND and reference other bad issues then simply do away with OMD/BND and call it a day. If Spencer likes that comic it is his right to do so, but it does not mean I do. They talk about looking at Spider-Man differently after Last Remains. If OMD or worse a variation of BND is there, then I will be looking at it differently: Like I did after Silk.

[Vortex85]

I get that, but we can't keep treating this run like it's perfect, which is what a lot of people have been doing (myself included, I'll admit). It's high time to point out that there are a lot of things that need to be fixed with Spencer's writing of ASM, and these past two issues highlight that fact in spades.

It's not perfect at all, I thought his second year of the title was subpar compared to his first year. I wish those stories were more exciting but a podcast with Jonah, Chance, and Gog were stuff I don't really care about.

However, I really enjoyed the experience of this issue in particular. Everyone has their own opinion. I agree the Kindred plot is feeling tired and was dragged on too long. I hope we get a nice break and get to move on to new things and I can definitely fault Spencer for putting so much focus on this character for so long that people are tired of it and are feeling frustrated. I know I do, but I also can't help but love this issue for what it did and gave me.

[RD155]

I get that, but we can't keep treating this run like it's perfect, which is what a lot of people have been doing (myself included, I'll admit). It's high time to point out that there are a lot of things that need to be fixed with Spencer's writing of ASM, and these past two issues highlight that fact in spades.

You’re not alone on that one. I’m guilty of overhyping Spencer’s run and ignoring some of the faults as well. Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy his run as a whole but I got carried away in the past praising it. The reason being that I loved his handling of the relationship of Peter/MJ and that’s usually one of the main selling points of the title for me personally. I also enjoyed his handling of Felicia as well. I think I allowed the amazing work he was doing with MJ, their relationship and so on cloud my judgement on the other issues the title was having....

Good run no doubt but...there are some definite problems that are becoming very evident week by week now during Last Remains.

[Lukmendes]

*Harry in Hell trying to convince Mephisto to buy Pete's marriage*

"Look I've got this awesome plan to make my best friend waste his time for 300+ issues hear me out"

247 issues to go then .

3. The definite subtext here is that Harry has been manipulating events to keep Peter and MJ apart since the start of Brand New Day. If it was deliberate then it kind of contradicts a few key story lines from "Brand New Day." Though I'm sure some will go, "Would that really be so bad?"

Retcons like that will blatantly contradict ****, obvious example is MJ knowing Peter is Spidey for years, which then we learn she knew before she even met Peter, so basically, nothing new for comics lol.

4. Carlie wasn't "in on it," but she definitely seems like she was an unknowing pawn in Harry/Kindred's schemes. Which, come to think of it, would be par for course. After all, she trusted Lily Hollister (Menace), Vin Gonzales (who tried framing Spider-Man as a serial killer), her father (a corrupt forensic examiner for the mob) and Captain Yuri Watanbee (the murderous vigilante Wraith) didn't she?

That would be weird, did Harry suddenly stop using her then? 'Cause Carlie returned under Spencer and she was actually supportive of Peter and MJ being together, even told her about that "Lookup" support group, if the intention is for Carlie to be used by Harry to keep them apart, then Spencer himself is contradicting it by making her be more helpful than anything else.

I feel like the padding in this arc isn't so bad in isolation without considering how long it took to get here. I think a lot of this arc will read better to future readers in hindsight and will appreciate this issue in particular for the experience it gives. I think it's so frustrating now because we are all anxious for answers and want to get to the point already. But when you already know the point, it may make the journey more fun to see how it played out to get there.

I don't see myself looking back at this issue and #52 with fondness when all they did was waste time with padding, a good issue doesn't need another issue to look better, and this one just doesn't have much going on.

Also, didn't a solicit say this issue would have a brutal fight? 'Cause that's another disgusting lie to the pile.

[WebSlingWonder]

It's not perfect at all, I thought his second year of the title was subpar compared to his first year. I wish those stories were more exciting but a podcast with Jonah, Chance, and Gog were stuff I don't really care about.

However, I really enjoyed the experience of this issue in particular. Everyone has their own opinion. I agree the Kindred plot is feeling tired and was dragged on too long. I hope we get a nice break and get to move on to new things and I can definitely fault Spencer for putting so much focus on this character for so long that people are tired of it and are feeling frustrated. I know I do, but I also can't help but love this issue for what it did and gave me.

But is the experience worth all this? This didn't feel like an experience to me; it felt like I got ripped off, honestly. I paid $3.67 on Comixology for the book, and got 23 pages of a, basically, re-drawn version of a 13-year old sequence with some new context. I understand the cool elements with the creepy doorman and the change in words, but if this was part of a full graphic novel that would be one thing - it's part of a biweekly superhero comic book. I expect something of note to happen. And Peter barely speaks throughout the issue, either being sleep/dead or lucid dreaming with "what? But you're alive! MJ!" the whole time. We don't even get to see his reaction beyond crying (for some reason?).

I feel like "Kindred" was much, much different when Spencer first started this run, and that the "Kindred" we're getting now is a reworked and edited version of the original character, because none of this makes any sort of sense.

1. How did Harry become Kindred to begin with? Especially since we now know that the face is just a mask?
2. Why would Harry get all this character development across 13 YEARS only for it to be washed away to make him a villain again?
3. Why would Harry hate/despise Norman again when he defeated him in "Go Down Swinging"?
4. If this is the same Harry from BND, then why would he mess with Peter? What is the purpose? Keeping him from MJ?

This story would have been infinitely better if Kindred was Pre-OMD Peter, and infinitely more tightly plotted if we didn't have it stretched out to 60+ issues and 2 years (pandemic be damned).
Not only that, but we've wasted precious time with "2099", "True Companions", "Who Run The World?", "A Trivial Pursuit", "Breaking News", and more that have only slowed the series down, not enhanced it.
Decompression and experience is fine, if in a vacuum. But somebody should've told Spencer that he doesn't have that luxury: he's writing the flagship book for Marvel, and guess what? Nobody's talking about it. The most press that the book had was for issue #850, and the hype wasn't for Kindred but for Green Goblin. What does that say? It says that save for us hardcore readers, this storyline is not getting the press Marvel either wants or needs for their flagship book. The slower than snail story and the art problems make me think that something is seriously wrong with the behind the scenes of this book, and it's becoming more and more evident with each issue.

Overall, I try not to take this stuff seriously, but this is the only comic series I read month to month, and it's disheartening to see it treated like this.

[Lukmendes]

3. Why would Harry hate/despise Norman again when he defeated him in "Go Down Swinging"?

Why Norman being defeated stop Harry from hating Norman? Being abused by him for Harry's entire damn life isn't gonna magically be healed by just seeing Norman be punched in the face, specially considering Norman brainwashed Harry's own damn son, so that's a new trauma for the pile and more reasons to keep hating the fucker.

This story would have been infinitely better if Kindred was Pre-OMD Peter, and infinitely more tightly plotted if we didn't have it stretched out to 60+ issues and 2 years (pandemic be damned).

As bad as it is for Kindred and BND Harry to be the same character, it would be so much worse if it was pre-OMD Peter, same Clone Saga nonsense by having a "Who's the real Peter" situation, hell, it'd be even worse, 'cause all Clone Saga did was make Peter make questionable decisions to protect his family, Kindred kills people for shits and giggles, it'd be a slap in the face for pre-OMD Peter to see him look this evil.

Not only that, but we've wasted precious time with "2099", "True Companions", "Who Run The World?", "A Trivial Pursuit", "Breaking News", and more that have only slowed the series down, not enhanced it.
Decompression and experience is fine, if in a vacuum. But somebody should've told Spencer that he doesn't have that luxury: he's writing the flagship book for Marvel, and guess what? Nobody's talking about it. The most press that the book had was for issue #850, and the hype wasn't for Kindred but for Green Goblin. What does that say? It says that save for us hardcore readers, this storyline is not getting the press Marvel either wants or needs for their flagship book. The slower than snail story and the art problems make me think that something is seriously wrong with the behind the scenes of this book, and it's becoming more and more evident with each issue.

Overall, I try not to take this stuff seriously, but this is the only comic series I read month to month, and it's disheartening to see it treated like this.

Yeah, ASM so far is in a "fun enough" category, story isn't bad, but so far the most hyped up thing about it lately is "SPENCER MIGHT TALK ABOUT OMD HERE!", which while it's certainly working if the amount of people hyped for #53 a few days ago was any hint, finally talking about OMD, and being an actual interesting story, aren't the same thing, at fuckin' all.

Wonder if something's up with Marvel this month, Immortal Hulk#40 was kinda whatever too, and X-Men#14 was a complete fucking joke lol.

[WebSlingWonder]

Why Norman being defeated stop Harry from hating Norman? Being abused by him for Harry's entire damn life isn't gonna magically be healed by just seeing Norman be punched in the face, specially considering Norman brainwashed Harry's own damn son, so that's a new trauma for the pile and more reasons to keep hating the fucker.



As bad as it is for Kindred and BND Harry to be the same character, it would be so much worse if it was pre-OMD Peter, same Clone Saga nonsense by having a "Who's the real Peter" situation, hell, it'd be even worse, 'cause all Clone Saga did was make Peter make questionable decisions to protect his family, Kindred kills people for shits and giggles, it'd be a slap in the face for pre-OMD Peter to see him look this evil.



Yeah, ASM so far is in a "fun enough" category, story isn't bad, but so far the most hyped up thing about it lately is "SPENCER MIGHT TALK ABOUT OMD HERE!", which while it's certainly working if the amount of people hyped for #53 a few days ago was any hint, finally talking about OMD, and being an actual interesting story, aren't the same thing, at fuckin' all.

Wonder if something's up with Marvel this month, Immortal Hulk#40 was kinda whatever too, and X-Men#14 was a complete fucking joke lol.

Marvel has been a different beast lately, and not in a good way. Two separate X-Men issues re-used artwork with new boxes and this issue redrew an old story. That's highly unacceptable, really. It's like they don't care anymore, or the creative teams are just not giving a **** about what they write/draw, neither of which are good.

Honestly, between Marvel's shenanigans and DC's gloominess, I don't have high hopes for the Big Two in superhero comics. It's why I've been reading older stories like The Sandman, Daytripper, Fables, and others - series that have beginnings, middles, and ends.

[Vortex85]

But is the experience worth all this? This didn't feel like an experience to me; it felt like I got ripped off, honestly. I paid $3.67 on Comixology for the book, and got 23 pages of a, basically, re-drawn version of a 13-year old sequence with some new context. I understand the cool elements with the creepy doorman and the change in words, but if this was part of a full graphic novel that would be one thing - it's part of a biweekly superhero comic book. I expect something of note to happen. And Peter barely speaks throughout the issue, either being sleep/dead or lucid dreaming with "what? But you're alive! MJ!" the whole time. We don't even get to see his reaction beyond crying (for some reason?).

For me it was. I have stories with more "things" happening and more plot development that I enjoy much less. Again, personal taste / preference. I'd be getting ASM anyway and I've been enjoying it. I'm constantly looking forward to each issue which is more than I can say for a lot of years of this book in the past.

[WebSlingWonder]

For me it was. I have stories with more "things" happening and more plot development that I enjoy much less. Again, personal taste / preference. I'd be getting ASM anyway and I've been enjoying it. I'm constantly looking forward to each issue which is more than I can say for a lot of years of this book in the past.

Well, that's good for you, but you're in the minority with this one, unfortunately.

[Vortex85]

Well, that's good for you, but you're in the minority with this one, unfortunately.

That's ok because I don't care if I'm in the majority on liking an issue of a comic or not.

[WebSlingWonder]

That's ok because I don't care if I'm in the majority on liking an issue of a comic or not.

No, but being blind to an issue's faults doesn't feel particularly fruitful either.

[your_name_here]

Count me in on the “minority”, too. Its wonderfully atmospheric.

As much as others are complaining about this story, they’re still equally anticipating the next issue. I’ve not had that for such a long time on Spider-Man.

[Vortex85]

Count me in on the “minority”, too. Its wonderfully atmospheric.

As much as others are complaining about this story, they’re still equally anticipating the next issue. I’ve not had that for such a long time on Spider-Man.

Yeah, despite it being short read it was done masterfully and I've spent more time with it than the majority of other issues that I just read once and never revisited. I've gone back to these pages over and over to look at them and dwell in them.

Currently I'm fixated on the line "Speak of the devil and he appears." I remember that line thinking it was another one done in poor taste so seeing that called out in the way it was really hits home with me. This book was just so cinematic I really love it the more I return to it.