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  1. #106
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    i’m fine with Kid Cable - having a teenager in Krakoa with the spectre of Old Cable hovering over him has a lot more interesting story potential than Old Cable.

    what would Old Cable do on Krakoa? His future/time-travel shtick is co-opted by the role Moira is playing in Hickman’s X-men.
    Having Apocalypse present in power would be a no go for him (hav having Kid Cable interact with Apocalypse is more believable).
    It would be funny to see how Old Cable handles his Dad being a swinger, though.
    Where they went wrong with Old Cable was making it all about his future/time-travel schtick in the first place. Back in the 90s, in his heyday, that was just part of his backstory. Like Weapon X to Wolverine. Meaning it had implications for him as a character, as it is part of his backstory and where his advanced technology comes from. And stories involving it certainly popped up from time to time. But it wasn’t his singular role in the books. He was another badass wild card player like Wolverine and Gambit, except he wasn’t a loner or follower like them, rather he was a leader too. Leading X-Force. But he also had his mysteries and motivations for things that he wasn’t forthcoming about. So a man of mystery, a leader, a soldier, etc., doing the same thing as most Marvel heroes do: Trying to build a better future, fight bad guys, etc.

    Somewhere along the way, in the 00s, everything involving Cable became about time travel adventures. It took him out of the present day MCU and stuck him out in the timestream, where it was easy to ignore him. He wasn’t an A-player, or even a B-player. Rather he became a fringe player who only had time travel adventures and hung out with Deadpool for laughs.

    Go back and read the Jeph Loeb/Steve Skroce or Ian Churchill Cable issues. Or the Casey/Ladronn issues. He was bumping into the Avengers, fighting the Hulk, visiting Wakanda, encountering both new villains and existing ones from across the broader Marvel U. He was a player. A part of the landscape.

    In my view that’s where they went wrong. And there is plenty for him to do in the new Dawn of X landscape in defense of Krakoa and taking it to her enemies. See the highly underrated Si Spurrier X-Force run for Cable doing what Percy’s X-Force is doing now, years before they were doing it. Acting as the mutant CIA, gathering intelligence, doing wet works stuff, etc. He would fit right in on that team with Beast, Jean, Domino, Logan, Colossus, Forge, etc.

    Restore this guy to greatness...

    DB21F710-C84D-4A57-84CE-268E21C088AC.jpg
    Last edited by Jackraow21; 11-20-2020 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    Seriously loving the fact that we're pretending literally any teenager ever wouldn't do what Kid Cable did if they had access to a parental/familial unit who's half as crazy/powerful as the Summers pack, lol. Oh well.
    What did he do?
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  3. #108
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    What did he do?
    He had a shot at killing his opponent in a 1-on-1 fight, but wasted a second out of concern for Doug's feelings towards his spouse (FFS, why?) and ended up getting his ass kicked. The kid was upset and psychically called out to Scott and Jean after losing his match. The tournament score was 18-6 at that point. He told them he screwed up, whined and cried for a bit and told his parents they'd have to prepare for war.

    If you're into Gary Stu Psycho/Sociopathic Old Cable, this won't be for you. If you can deal with a teenager having an emotional breakdown due to the weight of his perceived mutantkind-dooming failure, then it's a totally fine scene.

  4. #109
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    He had a shot at killing his opponent in a 1-on-1 fight, but wasted a second out of concern for Doug's feelings towards his spouse (FFS, why?) and ended up getting his ass kicked. The kid was upset and psychically called out to Scott and Jean after losing his match. The tournament score was 18-6 at that point. He told them he screwed up, whined and cried for a bit and told his parents they'd have to prepare for war.

    If you're into Gary Stu Psycho/Sociopathic Old Cable, this won't be for you. If you can deal with a teenager having an emotional breakdown due to the weight of his perceived mutantkind-dooming failure, then it's a totally fine scene.
    Nailed it. I’m very into Gary Stu Psycho/Sociopathic Old Cable, so watching this kid version act like a huge p@$$y was just awful. A mockery of the OG version.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    What was up with that anyway? I mean was it just a tease or something?
    Cebulski said it was important, so who knows if it will play on the future

  6. #111
    Amazing Member Gladiator's Avatar
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    Someone already asked, but what happened to Gorgon’s healing factor? He took more damage fighting Wolverine and shrugged it off.

  7. #112
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    Someone already asked, but what happened to Gorgon’s healing factor? He took more damage fighting Wolverine and shrugged it off.
    retcon maybe? Do we even know if they are really going to stay dead and not have Saturnyne suddenly have them resurrected as a means to show off more of her powers? Like having her go look what i did, i resurrected your mutants with no flaws whatsoever.

    I mean are there any future issues that show them alive?

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Nailed it. I’m very into Gary Stu Psycho/Sociopathic Old Cable, so watching this kid version act like a huge p@$$y was just awful. A mockery of the OG version.
    Pu$$y is a bit of a strong word for it lol. I personally think it's more interesting seeing Cable getting to grow up with parents and a family than just seeing old man Cable being gruff and rough. I think this works well for cable and the Summers family. Seeing Cable care for things before he had been hardened is a great in my opinion.

  9. #114
    Amazing Member Gladiator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    retcon maybe? Do we even know if they are really going to stay dead and not have Saturnyne suddenly have them resurrected as a means to show off more of her powers? Like having her go look what i did, i resurrected your mutants with no flaws whatsoever.

    I mean are there any future issues that show them alive?
    I’m positive they’ll be back somehow. Either Sat or the White Sword. The only one I’m worried about is Apoc. If he beats Genesis then the helmet goes to him.

    The X of Swords Handbook states Gorgon has a healing factor. Maybe the battle just maxed him out.
    Last edited by Gladiator; 11-21-2020 at 03:13 PM.

  10. #115
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    I've been hearing how people here don't like Kid Cable....

    It's just bad writing on the part of this issue's writer. Kid Cable is supposed to be tougher than Old Cable because he managed to kill Old Cable whereas others couldn't.

    Different writers write the same character differently. Maybe in the future, the tough kid Cable will be back.

    If people like the old Cable so much, then why not have a retcon like the Betsy/Kwannon pair?

    Betsy, Kid Cable are the originals.
    Kwannon, Old Cable are the mixed-up.

    Remember, Old Cable was never meant to be Scott's kid in the first place just like Betsy was never meant to be Kwannon in the first place.

    Betsy was supposed to revert back to her British self after the Mandarin storyline but everybody liked Kwannon so much that she stayed. So now we have two characters Kwannon and Betsy.

    So why not have Kid Cable and Old Cable as two different characters whose memories got mixed-up?

    If Old Cable was retconned to not be Scott's son as originally intended, then would he be less popular?
    Last edited by ericng; 11-21-2020 at 07:32 PM.

  11. #116
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    Most of the fights in X of Swords have been bad writing except for Storm, Wolverine and Gorgon's fight. Even then, these three fights could have been better.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericng View Post
    I've been hearing how people here don't like Kid Cable....

    It's just bad writing on the part of this issue's writer. Kid Cable is supposed to be tougher than Old Cable because he managed to kill Old Cable whereas others couldn't.

    Different writers write the same character differently. Maybe in the future, the tough kid Cable will be back.
    I agree with you it's on the writers, but I also think the circumstances that this young Cable has been given has fundamentally changed his outlook and personality. He's a teen who has been given his family back. That's what has changed between Extermination/X-Force and Cable. Two parents who raised him in an awful future are now with him alive in what is written to be a "mutant paradise". His sister, who he owes his existence to and revers, is alive and with him. He has family, and that has changed him. Will this be undone so that we still get grizzled Cable in the future? Who knows, but another writer could do it.

    If people like the old Cable so much, then why not have a retcon like the Betsy/Kwannon pair?
    I don't know if you are joking or not. I hope you are. The retcon that is Betsy/Kwannon is one of the most jarring, poorly executed, and most anger-inducing one amongst fans of both characters. No one should use that as a template.

    Betsy, Kid Cable are the originals.
    Kwannon, Old Cable are the mixed-up.
    You can't compare the two situations. One set is a time-displaced version of an existing fan favorite. The other set is a poor explanation for a decision Marvel made to fetishize a female character into a ninja sex-pot and the poorly executed creation of an unintended other body.

    Remember, Old Cable was never meant to be Scott's kid in the first place
    YES, 100% correct!

    just like Betsy was never meant to be Kwannon in the first place.
    Well yes because BETSY NEVER WAS KWANNON. Kwannon never existed until the 90's, and then this most recent poorly fleshed out character. It would be more accurate to say Kwannon was never supposed to exist, and Betsy never replaced Kwannon.

    Betsy was supposed to revert back to her British self after the Mandarin storyline but everybody liked Kwannon so much that she stayed. So now we have two characters Kwannon and Betsy.
    Yeah, this isn't what happened at all. I don't know where you came across this summary but it's faulty. Long story short, yes Betsy was supposed to revert back, but because readers and editors fell in love with the new sex-pot ninja Betsy they kept her in her "new Asian" body. Kwannon never existed til almost 6 years later when by accident the editor/writer created her in Betsy's body. Kwannon was created and an EXTREMELY limited backstory given as she was about to be cannon fodder. This whole new tale of Betsy and Kwannon can be further explained in their respective threads. But suffice to say, Kwannon was never a thing when the decision was made to keep Betsy Asian.

    So why not have Kid Cable and Old Cable as two different characters whose memories got mixed-up?
    Because that makes no sense to start, and requires a huge retcon to the entirety of X-Force, Extermination, Cable, New Mutants, Deadpool, Cable and Deadpool, Uncanny X-Men, etc vs the current explained situation. Given it's a timeline issue, they could easily pluck OG Cable out of the timestream and both exist. Blam.

    If Old Cable was retconned to not be Scott's son as originally intended, then would he be less popular?
    No, he was already EXTREMELY popular before they retconned him into being Nathan Christopher Charles Summers. It tied him more into the X-family but he doesn't owe his popularity to his lineage.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    No, he was already EXTREMELY popular before they retconned him into being Nathan Christopher Charles Summers. It tied him more into the X-family but he doesn't owe his popularity to his lineage.
    If that's the case, then Marvel should keep both two characters and keep old Cable out of Scott's family.

    I personally would prefer kid Cable to old Cable, after all, Nathan was born and did exist even before the old Cable was invented in New Mutants #87.

    If Marvel can retcon Franklin to be a non-mutant, they can retcon old Cable back to his original origin.

  14. #119
    Incredible Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    An angsty teen acting like an angsty teen makes them a wimp? Lmao, even teens who have been hardened by extreme trauma will still cry to their mom and dad when things go wrong.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  15. #120
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    This teen was raised in a dystopian future nightmare society to be their savior against Apocalypse. You’d think he’d be a little tougher than your average angsty teen, and always was shown to be until now. Just more OOC writing. Like a lot of what we’ve seen during Dawn of X.

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