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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    If what people are alluding to is true and slott doesn't like people to play with his toy;s and everyone knew what he was doing it goes.

    Franklyn named omega with name in red
    Sinsiter rumor saying one mutant is not a mutant but everyone thinks they are (Who has played with genetics more than sisnister)
    Then you have FF-Xmen, all this time supposedly slott plan to change franklyn from being a mutant was already discussed as a retreat.

    So one can easily see how crumbs were dropped to see how Slott would react and if he did do it because he was worried about someone playing with his toy, he took the bait. We all know the x-offices is good at this stuff when they were once on the bottom of the rights pile. The story could have been done better or not at all but it feels like to me he was baited and took the bait.
    That's not uncommon in any shared universe, and why it's incredibly important for creators to work together and communicate with each other rather than play games with their rivals over characters who don't belong to them. And that goes for Hickman as much as Slott. Neither of which do anything without approval for their editors, even Hickman has a boss to answer to in Marvel.

    But let's say you're right, why isn't Hickman getting blamed for something when Slott supposedly made the bait? That suggests Slott wouldn't have done anything without Hickman doing that but with these conversations Hickman's not getting any blame when he's the one who put Franklin in that position. He was ok with the recent FF/X-men mini-series, for example.

    These two were at a creative summit and should be able to contact each other to hash out their plans and solve any disagreements between themselves, this theory alleges that they're not acting professionally and that Hickman succeeded in setting Slott up. Because? It can't be about hating the FF, he loves those characters and wrote them in their own title and Secret Wars. All this revelation, if it's true, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it is, just makes them both look bad - especially Hickman.

  2. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That's not uncommon in any shared universe, and why it's incredibly important for creators to work together and communicate with each other rather than play games with their rivals over characters who don't belong to them. And that goes for Hickman as much as Slott. Neither of which do anything without approval for their editors, even Hickman has a boss to answer to in Marvel.

    But let's say you're right, why isn't Hickman getting blamed for something when Slott supposedly made the bait? That suggests Slott wouldn't have done anything without Hickman doing that but with these conversations Hickman's not getting any blame when he's the one who put Franklin in that position. He was ok with the recent FF/X-men mini-series, for example.

    These two were at a creative summit and should be able to contact each other to hash out their plans and solve any disagreements between themselves, this theory alleges that they're not acting professionally and that Hickman succeeded in setting Slott up. Because? It can't be about hating the FF, he loves those characters and wrote them in their own title and Secret Wars. All this revelation, if it's true, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it is, just makes them both look bad - especially Hickman.
    Slott's retcon has Franklin making himself a mutant. Up until he used the last of his power in issue 670, everyone though he was a mutant, Including Chuck and the X-Men. Even if Hickman knew that Slott was pulling a switcheroo on Franklin's genetic nature, what would have happened had he not included Franklin on his intial X-Men graphic pages? The calls of "Where's Franklin?" go out. It seems a lot better to have Franklinlisted and then pull the switch than not including him and having spoilers.

    I may not like the development but I can't find fault in what was known when.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That's not uncommon in any shared universe, and why it's incredibly important for creators to work together and communicate with each other rather than play games with their rivals over characters who don't belong to them. And that goes for Hickman as much as Slott. Neither of which do anything without approval for their editors, even Hickman has a boss to answer to in Marvel.

    But let's say you're right, why isn't Hickman getting blamed for something when Slott supposedly made the bait? That suggests Slott wouldn't have done anything without Hickman doing that but with these conversations Hickman's not getting any blame when he's the one who put Franklin in that position. He was ok with the recent FF/X-men mini-series, for example.

    These two were at a creative summit and should be able to contact each other to hash out their plans and solve any disagreements between themselves, this theory alleges that they're not acting professionally and that Hickman succeeded in setting Slott up. Because? It can't be about hating the FF, he loves those characters and wrote them in their own title and Secret Wars. All this revelation, if it's true, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it is, just makes them both look bad - especially Hickman.

    i don't think either looks bad its the nature of the beast sometimes. I wouldn't do it but this feels like imo a case of welp lets see who can out write the other if thats the way we are going. no different than two lawyers battling out a case. At the end of the day not every story someone wants to tell is going to support a story another one wants to tell even if in a shared universe and especially if running concurrently. And your right people do have editors i'm just looking at the info objectively and that makes the most sense to me because

    1. how can you do a whole book specifically about Reed rewriting Franklin's genetics to make him not visible to cerebro and somehow Xavier was already planted in Franklin mind waiting for him to give him the information he isn't a mutant in a way that supercedes even what Cerebro should be capable of and makes the two smartest characters in the marvel universe imo look inedpt next to a machine.

    2. Slott said everyone knew what he was going to do at a retreat. Okay so they knew he was going to say Franklin changed his own genetic structure to make it look like he was a mutant all these years. Well surprise surprise as stated above the FF/Xmen mini went into this in detail as above with Reed getting flack for it, it specifically addressed everything that Slott had Xavier say on that one page but it happened first and was the reverse. So reed can change genetics but he could not see it.

    I could go on but i'm bored with the topic now to be honest. lol. But basically it could be a huge coincidence but Slott if this is what he was doing could have looked at what was just done a few months ago if he did not, or an editor could have told him, and he could have done better.

    Honestly Franklin fits perfectly into just disappearing from X-men given everything hickman laid out and it won't affect the story as planned but i think the way this was done will have Repercussions for the FF for quite a while.
    Last edited by jwatson; 11-21-2020 at 07:22 AM.
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  4. #139
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Am I about to buy another issue of FF? Slott seems to be onto something. As for Lyja, wasn't she an agent working for the Skrull Empire back then? I'm pretty sure Black Widow did her fair share of that kind of thing back when she was working for the Red Room. Why do you think the Widows are always attractive?

    Yeah, I said it.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 11-21-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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  5. #140
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Franklin powers ended and the mutant gene he gave himself went away.

    But, he did make the Marvel universe right? The only way this works is if Slott plan is to make that a major plotline, or it's just stupid.

  6. #141
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Xavier lies
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  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Franklin powers ended and the mutant gene he gave himself went away.

    But, he did make the Marvel universe right?
    Not alone.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Am I about to buy another issue of FF? Slott seems to be onto something. As for Lyja, wasn't she an agent working for the Skrull Empire back then? I'm pretty sure Black Widow did her fair share of that kind of thing back when she was working for the Red Room. Why do you think the Widows are always attractive?

    Yeah, I said it.
    There's a difference between seducing someone into bed and posing as their lover to commit rape by deception. There is zero indication that Black Widow ever did the former.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    i don't think either looks bad its the nature of the beast sometimes. I wouldn't do it but this feels like imo a case of welp lets see who can out write the other if thats the way we are going. no different than two lawyers battling out a case. At the end of the day not every story someone wants to tell is going to support a story another one wants to tell even if in a shared universe and especially if running concurrently. And your right people do have editors i'm just looking at the info objectively and that makes the most sense to me because

    1. how can you do a whole book specifically about Reed rewriting Franklin's genetics to make him not visible to cerebro and somehow Xavier was already planted in Franklin mind waiting for him to give him the information he isn't a mutant in a way that supercedes even what Cerebro should be capable of and makes the two smartest characters in the marvel universe imo look inedpt next to a machine.

    2. Slott said everyone knew what he was going to do at a retreat. Okay so they knew he was going to say Franklin changed his own genetic structure to make it look like he was a mutant all these years. Well surprise surprise as stated above the FF/Xmen mini went into this in detail as above with Reed getting flack for it, it specifically addressed everything that Slott had Xavier say on that one page but it happened first and was the reverse. So reed can change genetics but he could not see it.

    I could go on but i'm bored with the topic now to be honest. lol. But basically it could be a huge coincidence but Slott if this is what he was doing could have looked at what was just done a few months ago if he did not, or an editor could have told him, and he could have done better.

    Honestly Franklin fits perfectly into just disappearing from X-men given everything hickman laid out and it won't affect the story as planned but i think the way this was done will have Repercussions for the FF for quite a while.
    We know Slott wanted to do this, but this response has zero explanation why Hickman would want him to do to troll him. If everyone was ok with this at the retreat then the simplest answer is that Hickman was ok with that, not that Hickman laid a trap for him. We don't know what Hickman's complete plans are, it could be a coincidence but we don't know until Hickman says it was. Being objective requires looking at a situation from multiple angles and not presenting Hickman as being because he's Hickman, including with a theory that lands what Slott did at his doorstep. Industry spats between creators, especially high profile ones, don't go unnoticed and we'd know if Hickman and Slott got into it over Franklin.

    This could be a fake out by Griever, as well.

  10. #145
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There's a difference between seducing someone into bed and posing as their lover to commit rape by deception. There is zero indication that Black Widow ever did the former.
    It's well known that The Black Widow was a Russian Spy but I'm sure she never slept with anyone under false pretenses. You must not be a big fan of Mystique either.
    Last edited by Ravin' Ray; 11-22-2020 at 04:35 AM. Reason: Removed quoted posts that were deleted.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    It's well known that The Black Widow was a Russian Spy but I'm sure she never slept with anyone under false pretenses.
    If you can point to any story of Natasha doing anything like what Lyja and Lyrra did I'll gladly concede the point.

    You must not be a big fan of Mystique either.
    Who said I was?
    Last edited by Ravin' Ray; 11-22-2020 at 04:35 AM. Reason: Removed quoted posts that were deleted.

  12. #147
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Keep it about the issue and not about each other, folks. Thank you.
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  13. #148

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    Franklin's power loss is a recurring trope in the FF series. His mutant status hadn't been that big of a deal previously. However, Hickman started his run and the listing with Franklin being a specific, special case was obvious. Even though I don't like the development, I can't find fault with hows and whens. Here is a list of observations which support the logic of what happened:

    Franklin was feeling bummed and went all emo-teen after he going from universal creator to relatively normal teen while his sister still had her super-genius and hung with Dad. Iceman and the hanging on Krakoa built up another support branch for Franklin which got taken away adding to his angst. I get it. Obviously Franklin is up for some heavy stuff coming up emotionally and possibly superheroey.

    Franklin was a mutant who could create universes and just hit puberty. He may well be one of the highest public profile mutants on earth due to his family. Why wouldn't Chuck be watching him? If Hickman knew about the developments for Franklin, then we can possibly assume Slott's in on the developments for Chuck and X-island. Removing Franklin from the mutant list may be a favor to save him from an anti-mutant threat while he's powerless. Or some other comic-booky plot twist event.

    Superman wasn't really dead. Steve Rogers was always going to return to being Cap. And Franklin Richards is going to get his powers back. I like the idea of Franklin rebelling a bit and using Krakoa as a hangout. The family may expect (and want) him to stay at Ben's club with the Yancy Street kids, but do our kids always do what we'd like? Even well behaved kids grow up with interests and friends different than their parents.

    Like with Byrne's negative costume change, I may not like what's been done, but I admire the way in which it was done.

  14. #149
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    With Franklin depowered, this would be a perfect opportunity for Mephisto to exact revenge on him, if he is currently in a position to do so.
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  15. #150
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    If what people are alluding to is true and slott doesn't like people to play with his toy;s and everyone knew what he was doing it goes.

    Franklyn named omega with name in red
    Sinsiter rumor saying one mutant is not a mutant but everyone thinks they are (Who has played with genetics more than sisnister)
    Then you have FF-Xmen, all this time supposedly slott plan to change franklyn from being a mutant was already discussed as a retreat.

    So one can easily see how crumbs were dropped to see how Slott would react and if he did do it because he was worried about someone playing with his toy, he took the bait. We all know the x-offices is good at this stuff when they were once on the bottom of the rights pile. The story could have been done better or not at all but it feels like to me he was baited and took the bait.
    Just a tiny correction: Hickman didn't write a sinister secret about a fake mutant, that was a plotline estabilished by Tom Taylor way back in Hunt for Wolverine that was never picked up again

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