Wouldn't it make more sense if Damian were Selina's son instead of Talia's?

[Eto]

No, it wouldn't make sense considering his upbringing in his early childhood.

[Confuzzled]

No. The interesting conflict between Selina/Damian is that he is not her son and she's his father's one true love despite not being his mother.

[Astralabius]

No. The interesting conflict between Selina/Damian is that he is not her son and she's his father's one true love despite not being his mother.

Talia used to be his true love, it's really not set in stone as it is with Lois and Clark.

[Confuzzled]

Talia used to be his true love

She hasn't since at least the one-two punch of BTAS and Batman Returns in the early 90's. Dini then retconned it in the comics too and had Bruce declare Selina his OTL in Heart of Hush.

[Rac7d*]

A character with their own book being pregnant for 9 months? I can’t see it.

[Astralabius]

She hasn't since at least the one-two punch of BTAS and Batman Returns in the early 90's. Dini then retconned it in the comics too and had Bruce declare Selina his OTL in Heart of Hush.

Missing the point of my post. All I was saying was that DC can always decide to change it again, so it's not a very good thing to base their dynamic on.
Then Selina is just one of many again. I would prefer it that way, modern Selina is very boring because DC doesn't really allow her to do her own thing without thinking about what it means for Batman.

[Arctic Cyclist]

She hasn't since at least the one-two punch of BTAS and Batman Returns in the early 90's. Dini then retconned it in the comics too and had Bruce declare Selina his OTL in Heart of Hush.

You....you didn't read Heart of Hush, did you? Because that's not what Dini did at all. Thomas Elliot declares Selina Bruce's OTL, just like Hugo Strange does. Bruce and Selina acknowledge that although they love each other and it can be sweet they aren't each other's one and only, nor do they have long term potential. It's pretty clear at the end that both people accept that.

Dini in Gotham City Sirens has Selina and Talia acknowledging that they are equals in Bruce's heart, or had been before Talia hot a one way ticket to Crazy evil town because she's not white.

Even Hush had Bruce bringing up that a) he and Talia had had sex more than once, b) he's not sure how to classify hid feelings especially since she's the one who while telling him he could call also is the one who refuses to talk to him.

It's only post Morrison, and really, only King era that Selina is ever presented as Bruce's OTL. Heck, in canon Bruce has been engaged three times since Damian was introduced. That's three different women in four years who he's declared his OTL.

[John Venus]

Whose bright idea was it to Lazarus this thread?

Anyway, no, this only happened in Alfred's fan fiction. Damian's whole concept that he is son of Batman and the daughter of a ninja cult leader. His arrogance, training and up bringing were all shaped by Talia and the League and Bruce's job is to steer this mini-psychopath towards a more heroic path. That doesn't work with Selina Kyle and they already have a child and her name is Helena Wayne.

She hasn't since at least the one-two punch of BTAS and Batman Returns in the early 90's. Dini then retconned it in the comics too and had Bruce declare Selina his OTL in Heart of Hush.

Is it really a retcon if writers had been building up to it since the 90's and the early 00's? They spent the 90's playing bat and mouse with each other, she learned his secret ID Hush and they were already sleeping with each other/friends with benefits during Brubaker and Cooke's Catwoman run and Bats was playing sugar-daddy to Selina's post-OYL offspring. Dini only made it official and Morrison had them as partners in the beginning of his Batman Inc book.

[lilyrose]

Yeah, I mean...the early 90's was thirty YEARS ago now. If it's been Batman/Catwoman in the comics on and off for last three decades and more serious and ongoing for the last five years, I think that's pretty solid footing at this point. More than the Bruce/Talia thing.

She's always going to be the choice of the general public for Bruce's true love in part because of their consistently being tied together for so long. And in other media and pop culture long before that.

I mean, fine, it's not Lois & Clark levels of togetherness, but that is only really because people need (or think they need) to see Batman as a loner most of the time, not because there's someone else that he should be tied to. If it wasn't for wanting to preserve the loner aspect he and Catwoman would definitely be the Lois Lane/Superman level of permanent by now.

[TheBatman]

She hasn't since at least the one-two punch of BTAS and Batman Returns in the early 90's. Dini then retconned it in the comics too and had Bruce declare Selina his OTL in Heart of Hush.

I definitely wouldn't say BTAS helped cement Selina as his OTL. Both Selina and Talia were pretty much overshadowed by Andrea in the of the romance department,IMO.

[CPSparkles]

Yeah, I mean...the early 90's was thirty YEARS ago now. If it's been Batman/Catwoman in the comics on and off for last three decades and more serious and ongoing for the last five years, I think that's pretty solid footing at this point. More than the Bruce/Talia thing.

She's always going to be the choice of the general public for Bruce's true love in part because of their consistently being tied together for so long. And in other media and pop culture long before that.

I mean, fine, it's not Lois & Clark levels of togetherness, but that is only really because people need (or think they need) to see Batman as a loner most of the time, not because there's someone else that he should be tied to. If it wasn't for wanting to preserve the loner aspect he and Catwoman would definitely be the Lois Lane/Superman level of permanent by now.

Morrison really is the best thing to happen to Batcat since the movies. The hit Job he did in Talia made her almost untouchable as a love interest for Bruce leaving cat as the only option for a love interest who has spice. You know a girl with bad tendencies who's a main stay in the dcu rather than a vicki vale sort.

Bruce isn't a loner.

[SiegePerilous02]

Talia used to be his true love, it's really not set in stone as it is with Lois and Clark.

I don't think Talia was ever declared his one true love, not in any way that went beyond lip service anyway. Because even while she was at her peak, Selina was also carrying her own solo and was the more popular character in general, as well as there being other love interest floating in and out.

Batman and Catwoman's sexual tension already beat her on a bigger stage (television) before she was even created.

I definitely wouldn't say BTAS helped cement Selina as his OTL. Both Selina and Talia were pretty much overshadowed by Andrea in the of the romance department,IMO.

Andrea was only in the one movie, the ship was torpedoed at the end of it and she was promptly never spoken of again in the DCAU, at least until briefly in Epilogue.

I'd say the DCAU put Selina and Talia more or less on equal terms. Talia had an episode in Beyond dedicated to what became of her, though it ended horrifically. Epilogue implied that he and Selina hooked up for a while and she was the last person to give up on him before Terry, so while it was off screen she fared better than Talia. All of this is kind of moot though, because Bruce/Babs overshadows everything.

Returns totally torpedoed Talia's chances though, because it in turn lead to DK Rises and Gotham, and they are clearly poised to do something with it across multiple movies in The Batman. All of which has its roots in the 60s show. Just like filmmaker's always seem eager to put their stamp on the Batman/Joker rivalry, they also seem eager to do their own take on Batman/Catwoman

I mean, fine, it's not Lois & Clark levels of togetherness, but that is only really because people need (or think they need) to see Batman as a loner most of the time, not because there's someone else that he should be tied to. If it wasn't for wanting to preserve the loner aspect he and Catwoman would definitely be the Lois Lane/Superman level of permanent by now.

Also speaks volumes that Nolan's Batman was actually allowed to end his narrative and he was more stable than a lot of other versions of modern Batman. So he ran off into the sunset with Selina and there's no story reason why that shouldn't happen.

We've also had tendencies in animation for Thomas and Martha Wayne to be voiced by Bat/Cat actors. In BTAS, Thomas and Martha were voiced by Conroy and Barbeau in Perchance to Dream. Brave and the Bold had West and Newmar voice them. This creates a link that tells the audience who Bruce's wife, if he were ever to be married, should be.