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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I dont understand how Shatterstar is not on the list. The man kicks ass every time he is around. That angers me!

    And here is a question. Would someone who can read minds be in the top ten. Like wouldnt it be hard to fight Jean hand to hand because she can see what you are about to do and counter it?
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  2. #32
    Storm Goddess Wind Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I dont understand how Shatterstar is not on the list. The man kicks ass every time he is around. That angers me!

    And here is a question. Would someone who can read minds be in the top ten. Like wouldnt it be hard to fight Jean hand to hand because she can see what you are about to do and counter it?
    Ever since I saw Jean copy Misty & Colleen's martial arts moves in UXMFC I've always wanted to see her download the moves from the more proficient fighters and use them on the regular. It makes sense that a telepath should be able to see moves to be ready for them. I don't know if they have the combat reflexes to react to all of the moves to counter them.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Why would Prodigy be on this list? Because he's so smart he can learn any fighting move? Isn't there a difference btw knowing the rules to fighting to actually fighting?

    More info on why Prodigy should be on here please.

    And Kwannon (impulsive and harsh) should be the better fighter while Betsy (proper and controlled) should be the better telepath.
    Prodigy before he loss his powers download all of Wolverine fighting abilities and beat him in a sparring session. A short while after he got the mental block removed so that he can access all his saved information aka Wolverine fighting ability. Basically the person most people consider number 1 he beat in a sparring session and he was around everyone on the list so arguably he has most of their fighting styles saved.

    In a world where they care about smaller characters he would be one of the best fighters if not the best fighters. The limitation on his power was he couldn't hold information forever but he understood that limitation and was trying to learning the things he learned on his own merit and he has genius level intellect to help that cause. Based on in book feats he doesn't belong on this list but understanding what he can do he belongs on this list.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-25-2020 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Prodigy before he loss his powers download all of Wolverine fighting abilities and beat him in a sparring session. A short while after he got the mental block removed so that he can access all his saved information aka Wolverine fighting ability. Basically the person most people consider number 1 he beat in a sparring session and he was around everyone on the list so arguably he has most of their fighting styles saved.

    In a world where they care about smaller characters he would be one of the best fighters if not the best fighters. The limitation on his power was he couldn't hold information forever but he understood that limitation and was trying to learning the things he learned on his own merit and he has genius level intellect to help that cause. Based on in book feats he doesn't belong on this list but understanding what he can do he belongs on this list.
    Fighting skills or any physical prowess is not like "saving data" or duplicating knowledge. Wolverine didn't became a top dog just by knowing them. Prodigy doesn't belong to this list.
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  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vishop View Post
    Fighting skills or any physical prowess is not like "saving data" or duplicating knowledge. Wolverine didn't became a top dog just by knowing them. Prodigy doesn't belong to this list.
    He has shown that he can actively apply the knowledge that is how he beat Wolverine sparring.

    Read New X-men 10 "Too Much Information" so you can grasp what kind of monster Prodigy can be if writers stop holding him back.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-25-2020 at 11:24 PM.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    He has shown that he can actively apply the knowledge that is how he beat Wolverine sparring.

    Read New X-men 10 "Too Much Information" so you can grasp what kind of monster Prodigy can be if writers stop holding him back.
    Those are his powers to use that knowledge against opponents, not his skills, that he practiced days and nights to became a fighter. Wolverine pretty much had a more than a century to not just learn them. He had to work hard to become a known fighter.
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  7. #37
    C&D was my gateway From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Its nice to see Nightcrawler and Storm or even Cyclops (strategist yes but you don't usually see him mentioned under h to h) making the list. Most of the others were expected but no less valuable of course.

  8. #38
    C&D was my gateway From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Rider View Post
    I struggled a bit with putting it together, since usually Betsy and Cable are among the top for me, but here are my top 15 H2H fighters for the X-Men (just based on showings of skill and who they've fought on panel):

    1. Wolverine
    2. Gorgon
    3. Gambit
    4. X-23
    5. Kwannon
    6. Storm
    7. Cyclops
    8. Kitty
    9. Nightcrawler
    10. Bishop
    11. Domino
    12. Mystique
    13. Warpath
    14. Rogue
    15. Magik

    Honorable mentions Emma, Banshee, Forge, Havok, Sage and Jubilee. All of them have shown impressive H2H skills on panel.
    There should be a separate list for people like Bishop, Cable. Dom etc. And maybe even brawlers.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vishop View Post
    Those are his powers to use that knowledge against opponents, not his skills, that he practiced days and nights to became a fighter. Wolverine pretty much had a more than a century to not just learn them. He had to work hard to become a known fighter.
    And yet Wolverine gets beaten down all the time and only wins by cheer plot driven inability to stay dead, because sadly writers have fallen into this "by the numbers" style of writing his fights, which has also started to befall his offsprings. Almost every Wolverine fight is the same and it's actualy a wonder when writers throw him a bone and show him not needing his healing factor to win against a half-way competent or powerfull enemy.

    As for Prodigy, it's a somewhat common usage of "memory downloading" powers that a character who can do that will right away be able to fight on the level of the person from which they got the memories, regardless of their own physical condition or the logical requirement of training the body to use a certain fighting style.

    The exceptions to these are usualy played for drama or laughs and the fact that it's used as a suprise for viewers/readers is an indicator for how commonly it's ignored.

    Btw. Wasn't there a whole New X-Men Academy issue which was entirely about how overpowered Prodigy is with his powers that he would easily become ruler of Earth?

  10. #40
    Spectacular Member Solitaryhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I dont understand how Shatterstar is not on the list. The man kicks ass every time he is around. That angers me!

    And here is a question. Would someone who can read minds be in the top ten. Like wouldnt it be hard to fight Jean hand to hand because she can see what you are about to do and counter it?
    Absolutely!
    Shatterstar has gone toe-to-toe with Wolverine and Deadpool twice and is still breathing. That should count for something.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    And yet Wolverine gets beaten down all the time and only wins by cheer plot driven inability to stay dead, because sadly writers have fallen into this "by the numbers" style of writing his fights, which has also started to befall his offsprings. Almost every Wolverine fight is the same and it's actualy a wonder when writers throw him a bone and show him not needing his healing factor to win against a half-way competent or powerfull enemy.
    I think that is a whole other different topic to be discussed which would be derailing this thread. But yes in a way you are right, he is more of a brawler.

    As for Prodigy, it's a somewhat common usage of "memory downloading" powers that a character who can do that will right away be able to fight on the level of the person from which they got the memories, regardless of their own physical condition or the logical requirement of training the body to use a certain fighting style.
    You are right. He doesn't need any sort of training of the body to learn fighting skills physically. He depends on his mutants powers to use a certain fighting style. That is why I am saying he doesn't belong to this list.
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  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    His mutant power is literally duplicating the skills and knowledge of anyone he comes in close proximity with. And after the No More Mutants fallout where he lost his powers, the Cuckoos removed his mental block so that he could maintain everything that he had absorbed.
    That still shouldn't make him physically capable of actually doing it. Just because he can tap into the skills and knowledge doesn't mean he can absorb the physical conditioning, strength, reflexes, and flexibility for it.

    Think of it like the time Taskmaster tried to dupe Slapstick: He ended up breaking his back because even though he could absorb Slappy's SKILLS, he couldn't snatch the Toon Physics powers that actually ALLOWS Slappy to make use of them. It should frankly be the same for David: Sure, if he and X-23 were to get in a fight he could absorb her martial arts training, but there's a good chance he'd blow out a joint or tear a ligament if he tried to fight like her simply because of the PHYSICAL requirements (it takes a LOT of flexibility to pull off some of the techniques we've seen Laura use).
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

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  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitaryhawk View Post
    Absolutely!
    Shatterstar has gone toe-to-toe with Wolverine and Deadpool twice and is still breathing. That should count for something.
    In the 2 encounters between Wolverine and Shatterstar that I know of, Wolverine made quick work of him. I only know of one fight between Deadpool and Shatterstar, which happened in the early 90s back when Deadpool was a more serious character and Wade also made quick work of him and Shatterstar couldn't even land a hit.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vishop View Post

    You are right. He doesn't need any sort of training of the body to learn fighting skills physically. He depends on his mutants powers to use a certain fighting style. That is why I am saying he doesn't belong to this list.
    And then you were told he "permanently" has the got the abilities of a bunch of X-men when the Cuckoos opened his mental block, his base is now he has the hand to hand of Kitty, Wolverine, and some others. He belongs on the list because of that. Where he is placed on the list is on top of that is if a person tries to fight now he has powers back and duplicate their abilities.

    If we are talking about the skills you got from another person shouldn't count then Psylocke who got her skills initially from Kwannon shouldn't be on list as well, Prodigy's prowess at fighting is from the same sort of process. The only difference is the most creative thing that Marvel writers could do apparently do is sitting the person with skills of Wolverine and Kitty behind a desk or making him the tech guy. Anyway moving on I did my part of showing why he should be mentioned.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 11-26-2020 at 09:32 PM.

  15. #45

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    Kitty got the bulk of her martial arts skills from being possessed by Ogan, so she shouldn't count either then.

    Prodigy may be a poor man's Synch, but even so he's the best of his generation. I loved that story about him taking over the world. Really showed his potential. Too bad he's been underutilized since.
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