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  1. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yin&Yang View Post
    carlie cooper wasn't she like a big love interest, haven't seen her lately.
    I wouldn't mind if she began dating Randy Robertson. Could make for some good awkward comedy.

  2. #137
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    I mean, to be fair, the character was only ever meant to be a one-off but then Slott was requested to extend the story after the orders for that one issue exceeded expectations.
    While Slott may have meant for the character to be a one-off (derailed by Marvel immediately repowering Alpha in a subsequent mini nobody asked for) according to Slott in an interview the story was apparently made shorter by Marvel, so they could run some other stories they already paid for.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ol4_T-gnqY4&t=609s
    Last edited by Vegeta; 11-24-2020 at 10:27 AM.
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  3. #138
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    The "Get Kraven" mini?, never read that one but everyone tells me that is abysmal.
    Ron Zimmerman.

    'Nuff said.

  4. #139
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This whole debate and listing of "supporting characters falling by the wayside" kind of reveals how complaints on the order that "JMS neglected the supporting cast" or that JMS just focused on Peter/MJ/Aunt May are silly and stupid.

    At heart some supporting characters will always be more equal and more important than others.
    Because apparently other writers making similar mistakes means that we can't criticize JMS for doing it too?

    Every era has supporting civilians added and so on, and then removed elsewhere and moved and cycled in and out.
    JMS had barely any civilian additions though, there were students, teachers and whatnot from the school Peter was working on, but they didn't get much screen time, think the one who had it the most was that Jennifer girl, and she was around more so to show Spidey was helping out his students, once her case's solved, she stops showing up, and that's kinda how the school supporting cast goes.

    On the non-civilian side we had Ezekiel and that Lamont cop at least, both interesting, but too bad Lamont didn't show up much too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I wouldn't mind if she began dating Randy Robertson. Could make for some good awkward comedy.
    He's currently dating Beetle, though it'd be funny for him to date a known super villain, then right after, a cop lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    While Slott may have meant for the character to be a one-off (derailed by Marvel immediately repowering Alpha in a subsequent mini nobody asked for) according to Slott in an interview the story was apparently made shorter by Marvel, so they could run some other stories they already paid for.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ol4_T-gnqY4&t=609s
    "It sucked in that how it was told, it sucked because it was a comic that came out in 3 months, and that's not the way the story was built."

    From the way Slott talks there, it sounds like Marvel decided to divide a story made to be in one long issue, that was never meant to be divided, doesn't sound like anything was cut, only divided when it shouldn't.

  5. #140
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    JMS had barely any civilian additions though, there were students, teachers and whatnot from the school Peter was working on, but they didn't get much screen time, think the one who had it the most was that Jennifer girl, and she was around more so to show Spidey was helping out his students, once her case's solved, she stops showing up, and that's kinda how the school supporting cast goes.

    On the non-civilian side we had Ezekiel and that Lamont cop at least, both interesting, but too bad Lamont didn't show up much too...
    Lamont showed up in To Have and To Hold, I believe.

    I feel like it was less of an issue with JMS because, again, there were other satellite titles that ended up doing more with the rest of the supporting cast.

  6. #141
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like it was less of an issue with JMS because, again, there were other satellite titles that ended up doing more with the rest of the supporting cast.
    And let me pre-emptively respond to a riposte to this that I see coming.

    There will be people saying major stuff with Supporting Characters need to happen in the pages of ASM, but again that doesn't make sense.

    People assume that if satellite titles didn't exist, important story arcs like Gerry Conway's Tombstone Saga, The Owl/Octopus War and the major beats of the Peter/Black Cat romance, the Death of Jean deWolff, The Child Within/Best of Enemies...people assume that these stories inevitably would have happened in the pages of ASM and not the satellites.

    But there's no evidence for that. I think satellite titles need to exist to expand this.

    In fact a major problem with this ASM-Supremacy attitude we see since BND is in fact the fact that in the pages of ASM because writers need to shepherd and spotlight the supporting cast you see more plot and character stuff happen with supporting players rather than the main characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Because apparently other writers making similar mistakes means that we can't criticize JMS for doing it too?
    The way people attack JMS for that tends to be disproportionate because everyone assumes that was the worst example. When in fact it's the norm for supporting players to fall by the wayside.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 11-24-2020 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #142
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Lamont showed up in To Have and To Hold, I believe.
    He did, that was the last time he showed up too.

    To make it funnier, and sadder, those were his last words:



    (Sensational Annual#1 vol 2)

    "Go save your wife and never talk to me again. Go."

    Then Peter never did talk to him again.

    I feel like it was less of an issue with JMS because, again, there were other satellite titles that ended up doing more with the rest of the supporting cast.
    His run shouldn't have to rely on satellite titles to use the civilian supporting cast more, while he did use the time to develop MJ and aunt May well, that doesn't make the point that he barely bothered with anyone else besides those two to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The way people attack JMS for that tends to be disproportionate because everyone assumes that was the worst example. When in fact it's the norm for supporting players to fall by the wayside.
    Well, fans being ignorant or hypocrites is nothing new, how many people talked about Carlie like she's the devil while Gwen was talked like she was a saint again? Despite them sharing almost every flaw, with Gwen being actually worse than Carlie in some of those flaws? Yeah...

  8. #143
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    He did, that was the last time he showed up too.

    To make it funnier, and sadder, those were his last words:



    (Sensational Annual#1 vol 2)

    "Go save your wife and never talk to me again. Go."

    Then Peter never did talk with him again.



    His run shouldn't have to rely on satellite titles to use the civilian supporting cast more, while he did use the time to develop MJ and aunt May well, that doesn't make the point that he barely bothered with anyone else besides those two to be wrong.



    Well, fans being ignorant of hypocrites is nothing new, how many people talked about Carlie like she's the devil while Gwen was talked like she was a saint again? Despite them sharing almost every flaw, with Carlie being actually worse in some of those flaws? Yeah...
    Lamont was fun, althougth i can't say i miss him, still very considerate of Peter in keeping his word lol.

    As for Carlie, i kind of quit on her once Felicia told Peter that he should go for her like...really?, does that sound like something that Felcia would do?. Plus the trying to tatoo a goblin on her to spite Peter, granted she was drunk but it was still weird.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  9. #144
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Lamont was fun, althougth i can't say i miss him, still very considerate of Peter in keeping his word lol.

    As for Carlie, i kind of quit on her once Felicia told Peter that he should go for her like...really?, does that sound like something that Felcia would do?. Plus the trying to tatoo a goblin on her to spite Peter, granted she was drunk but it was still weird.
    Felicia...really wasn't well written back then.

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Well, fans being ignorant or hypocrites is nothing new, how many people talked about Carlie like she's the devil while Gwen was talked like she was a saint again? Despite them sharing almost every flaw, with Gwen being actually worse than Carlie in some of those flaws? Yeah...
    True that.

    Good point about Lamont. To be honest, I'd be happy if he never shows up again, not until after Peter and MJ get married again. That gives a poignancy to his "Go and see your wife" comment.

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Lamont was fun, althougth i can't say i miss him, still very considerate of Peter in keeping his word lol.

    As for Carlie, i kind of quit on her once Felicia told Peter that he should go for her like...really?, does that sound like something that Felcia would do?.
    It's even worse when you remember that Felicia doesn't even know Carlie, it'd be already bad enough if Felicia cheered on someone else being with Peter, the closest thing to that she ever did was accepting that Peter is with MJ, but that was only after Felicia recognized her own flaws and that she missed her chance with Peter because of them, plus becoming kinda friendly with MJ.

    And then Slott decides to make Felicia cheer for Peter to be with this chick Felicia never met, like woah, wouldn't be surprised if Slott made fuckin' Kingpin be actually supportive of Peter being with Carlie too, 'cause Slott certainly was not caring about logic when doing that ass kissing.

    Plus the trying to tatoo a goblin on her to spite Peter, granted she was drunk but it was still weird.
    Hey, at least she didn't go for it, even when drunk lol.

    Which is actually funny since the tattoo would be convenient during Superior, since Norman changed the Octobots to not detect anything that has a Goblin mark .

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Felicia...really wasn't well written back then.
    This and her being Spidey's fuck buddy who doesn't care about finding out who's behind the mask, completely missing the point of her characterization from the 80's... Yeah, Felicia wasn't being written well, and those two are nothing compared to the atrocity that was Queenpin, 'cause even though those specific actions contradict her usual personality, outside of those, she was being the usual fun, flirty thief, Queenpin removed even that lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    True that.

    Good point about Lamont. To be honest, I'd be happy if he never shows up again, not until after Peter and MJ get married again. That gives a poignancy to his "Go and see your wife" comment.
    Lamont returning under these conditions would be odd, not only the timeline had the dumb change where the marriage didn't happen, he also doesn't know Peter is Spidey, he can always deduce it though, but the lack of marriage would still be there.

    But hey, if he can come back and be the easy going, snarky cop again, I'd fine with it lol.

  12. #147
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Thinking about non-Peter characters, Bendis kind of dropped Captain Quaid after Miles got ported to 616. I forget if he ever established he made the jump.

  13. #148
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    Well there was a few that I liked that may or may not have been "major".

    Screwball: Thought she was introduced as kind of a major character that got some more readers interested in parkour. Then she came back again as a major villain for Arana, but that got dropped as well.

    Ana Karvinoff: Also was the new bees knees Kravenesque knockoff. She made a great showing to be and showed some promise. Character kind of fell off after her family returned and even more so once turned into an inhuman. Still wish she were utilized in that X-23 book before.

    Paperdoll: One of Slott's villains of the month that I actually liked. Powers were unique...I was ready for those oragami shurikens. I thought Slott would bring her back for Superior, but no. She remains to be only shown in the kill Mary Jane stand alone arc. UGH.

    Hummingbird from Kaine fame. Such a waste.

    The Horizon staff. I mean besides Sajani (I think that was her name), Max and crew just haven't shown up anymore. These were some smart students that could've easily gotten another Spider-related book based off them.

    Silver Sable: I always found her an oddity in Spidey's world, but the Black Cat stand in was pretty fun. Shame that she couldn't get her own mercenary type book as I think she actually can carry a title.

  14. #149
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Lamont returning under these conditions would be odd, not only the timeline had the dumb change where the marriage didn't happen, he also doesn't know Peter is Spidey, he can always deduce it though, but the lack of marriage would still be there.

    But hey, if he can come back and be the easy going, snarky cop again, I'd fine with it lol.
    Most likely, they'll bring him back to kill him off. Similar to how Slott killed Ashley Kafka, a JMD creation he had used in a number of titles but had fallen by the wayside and Slott brought her back just to kill her off. (Don't @me about her returning as a clone in Clone Conspiracy).

    Sometimes it's not a bad thing for supporting characters to be shelved and left standing. Not everything has to be harvested and mined. Skurge the Executioner had an iconic moment in Walt Simonson's run on The Mighty Thor and nobody has gone ahead and returned Skurge from Helheim.

  15. #150
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmacaoni View Post
    The Horizon staff. I mean besides Sajani (I think that was her name), Max and crew just haven't shown up anymore. These were some smart students that could've easily gotten another Spider-related book based off them.
    The Horizon staff were seen in Gage's Superior second volume, such as Max Modell and others.

    Sajani was briefly featured in the first issue of Spencer's ASM.

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