What's wrong with EVS against of DC Comics ?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah maybe, but the way they are doing it, is it sofar is not really working, at least not for the direct market.
They mostly alienate their existing fans (in large enough numbers that you can make apparently make a living ranting about it on youtube), and bring not in enough new fan in to keep their new character going.

The direct market is not the future of the comics industry. I don't know much about how everything is going to play out, but that much I'm certain about.

[Aahz]

The direct market is not the future of the comics industry.

But it is the present, and if they chase the current fans away, without having really a plan what the "future" is and how to get there, there won't be a future.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

[Steel Inquisitor]

But it is the present, and if they chase the current fans away, without having really a plan what the "future" is and how to get there, there won't be a future.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

They won't, because EVS patrons don't speak for all comic readers. Of course there'll be a future, even if the industry flatlines it'll be back in another form. EVS audience aren't solely comic readers, they'll latch onto anything in any media without reading it to tear it down. They're the same people who went after Captain Marvel, Star Wars and Black Panther's films.

Diversity and quality aren't contradictory, a big reason why the comic industry has been on the verge of death since the 90's is that they didn't evolve and were left in the dust by other entertainment industries who chased those fans. An industry who won't diversity its audience gets stagnant and dies, this is why Marvel and DC have branched out to these readers the last few years.

[Robanker]

But it is the present, and if they chase the current fans away, without having really a plan what the "future" is and how to get there, there won't be a future.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

If comic readership stopped losing readers for five years but the merchandising dropped off a cliff, the books would get cancelled tomorrow. Conversely, Batman lunchboxes are still big so we have a DC Universe. That's the world we live in. I'm oversimplifying, but right now we're mostly just chump change designed to generate IP and keep the copyrights from expiring. That we get stories out of it is a bonus. Hell, WB didn't even want to make Superman movies since Returns but did so just to keep the legal rights to the character.

Superman.

They will cancel most these books in a minute if they could push out a Dogman-esque success for each of the JLA members. I really doubt they care about the 15k readers buying Hawkman, and I say that as someone who bought every issue twice to support it.

Moreover, comics sold at their peak numbers in the last 40 years during the 90s where a lot of the high selling stuff was absolute garbage. You didn't see Starman blowing up the charts like the EXTREME **** was. Quality doesn't always rise to the top. Sometimes it does, and it's great when that happens, but you're off here. We've had industry professionals (most recently Didio) mentioning price kind of didn't matter. People were going to buy what they were going to buy, so they stopped $2.99 and matched Marvel.

I agree, distribution models are very important and digital should absolutely by the domain of impulse buys. Stuff parents will drop $10 for 8-12 issues of an older series to give their kid on a plane ride. Not two issues. You want a child to be able to ask for a comic and a parent not to think about it because it's just a dollar or two. You want to appeal to kids (and superheroes traditionally do, though they have a lot more competition now) but you need to sell to their parents. Parents aren't going to keep buying comics at $5 each that their kids devour in a few minutes. I was only able to read as many comics as I did when I was younger by saving my lunch money once my parents didn't have time to make me lunch for school. I would love for digital to be cheaper and print remain the same cost as a premium product I can purchase, read, love and collect but that may not be feasible.

Comics have to evolve and us Wednesday Warriors are just a holding pattern that slowly sheds readers, and not because suddenly the books are bad or political storytelling. Bad books and political books have been part of comics since the beginning, and there have been great books that are both political and apolitical. Sticking to the current model while expanding has been what DC's been doing for ages. They're still trying and the industry hasn't exactly blown up. Something drastic may be necessary no matter how distasteful it may seem to us dinosaurs.

[Aahz]

Moreover, comics sold at their peak numbers in the last 40 years during the 90s where a lot of the high selling stuff was absolute garbage. You didn't see Starman blowing up the charts like the EXTREME **** was. Quality doesn't always rise to the top. Sometimes it does, and it's great when that happens, but you're off here. We've had industry professionals (most recently Didio) mentioning price kind of didn't matter. People were going to buy what they were going to buy, so they stopped $2.99 and matched Marvel.

Because collectors account for good chunk of the direct market, in some cases a variant cover, a land mark issue, the appearance of a new character or new costume design can drive a lot of sales. (I have read some where that the last issue of Batgirl did pretty well since it was a #50 and had the first comic appearance of the new CW-Batwoman, even if the issue was imo not that great).

But Quality is imo important for the longterm survival of a book, especially if it is not a book a lot of collectors are going after, and in building up a fanbase for a new character. And it will also be important if DCs going more into the OGN and Book market.

Of course Quality doesn't help if you are not getting enough people giving a book a chance in the first place.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But it is the present, and if they chase the current fans away, without having really a plan what the "future" is and how to get there, there won't be a future.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

You're already seeing DC move further and further away from the direct market though. They aren't going to do it all at once and they'll always make sure there's material out there geared towards the hardcore readers, but that will become less and less of a focus for the company while increasing the number of books are produced for much larger market that Scholastic has been successfully targeting.

Absolutely agreed about quality trumping everything else. If DC puts out substandard books, sales are going to drop, irregardless of whether its aimed at the hardcore fans or newer readers.

[Serving Size]

I've seen the overall arguments on the politics on comics and I have my beliefs on it, but generally keep it to myself for not the rabbit hole arguments. I enjoy what I enjoy and let others enjoy what they enjoy. There's plenty of gaps in my back issues to fill if nothing current catches my eye. And why buy something you feel will make you angry or disappointed? I actually remember reading Flash Mark Waid comics a friend of mine bought and he'd read my X-Men comics I'd buy. Had no idea Waid's politics as a kid or cared. I do think Ethan is probably all things said and done... a moderate republican who voted for Trump. The other issue is, you become a content creator on youtube, its all about content content. New content. Engagement by the viewers. The third issue is mainstream comics, I think in terms of popculture, some big things can and have disappeared from popculture. Its a tech world today. Maybe comics eventually just becomes a thing of the past? Who knows. Just my two cents. Don't mind me.

[Aahz]

Diversity and quality aren't contradictory, a big reason why the comic industry has been on the verge of death since the 90's is that they didn't evolve and were left in the dust by other entertainment industries who chased those fans. An industry who won't diversity its audience gets stagnant and dies, this is why Marvel and DC have branched out to these readers the last few years.

I don't deny that they have to evolve and get in new readers, I'm just saying that the way they are doing it now isn't really working on the direct market.

And yeah diversity and quality don't have to be contradictory, but a lot of the stuff (and not all it is divers) that is "reviewed" by the "Gaters" is often pretty cringe worthy in the first place.

[achilles]

But it is the present, and if they chase the current fans away, without having really a plan what the "future" is and how to get there, there won't be a future.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

DC are the underwear gnomes?

[krazijoe]

Wait...EVS is lead writer for that cosmic site?

[Noodle]

Wait...EVS is lead writer for that cosmic site?

No, but the lead writer is a fan of his and uses him as a "source"

[skyvolt2000]

I don't deny that they have to evolve and get in new readers, I'm just saying that the way they are doing it now isn't really working on the direct market.
And yeah diversity and quality don't have to be contradictory, but a lot of the stuff (and not all it is divers) that is "reviewed" by the "Gaters" is often pretty cringe worthy in the first place.

By WHO's standards? They don't speak for EVERY comic book fan and they might need to WORRY about the crap in their books.

A lot of that stuff has EVERY right to be on the shelf. So someone can make the choice to buy it or not. Not have a goon squad attack it for existing.

Quality does not matter to those folks all they see is an non-straight white male on the cover and that is IT.

And what ever this future is, I think it will have more to do with distribution model, pricing and most importantly quality, than diversity.

Talk about those issues than TARGETING any book that is not straight white and male.

Since 2015 there have been about 70 POC lead solos, minis and one shots from all companies. BATMAN has had more books in one year than DC has tossed out POC lead anything in the last 20 years.

If he sales so well why are stores still closing? If all these white male lead books are so bloody good-why are stores still closing? 70 POC lead books are not doing that. Yet that is what that group preaches and justify attacking folks.

NOT the books that get over ordered (in hopes of jacking up prices in the back issue market)
Not unnecessary second and beyond printing of books when stores still have the FIRST printing.
Not the fact 95% of what is sold in a comic book store can be bought CHEAPER elsewhere.

Blockbuster DIED and did not scream it's BLACK FOLKS fault for not renting enough Tyler Perry movies. They died because Netflix and others offer CHEAPER choices and technology advanced.
Toys R Us died and did not scream it's the WOMEN's fault for not buying enough WWE Diva dolls or Black folks fault for not buying enough Black Panther toys. Wal-Mart among others KILLED Toys R Us. With cheaper prices and more CHOICES.

Where are the conversations about the REAL issues instead of attacking folks?

[Redjack]

Where are the conversations about the REAL issues instead of attacking folks?

Reality:

The Direct Market was always a death spiral. Many of us pegged it as such 20 years ago but were ignored both by the Big Two (who created it, not to better serve fans but to treat LCS owners like sharecroppers) and by our fellow fans who thought this would make their lives easier. It did, for a minute.

But a dedicated comic book shop where the clientele had to ALREADY love comics to even want to go inside, was never a sustainable model and it is finally, FINALLY, coming to its end. THANK JEEBUS!

It was always what i call a "nostalgia engine" catering exclusively to an aging and increasingly hidebound audience of once-fans-now-fetishists. That group was old enough to pay the ridiculous prices for a 15 minute hit of entertainment and also entirely resistant to any change that might be injected to bring in new eyes. but the good news for us and the bad news for them is they are aging out, literally dying and taking the DM with them.

Death. Spiral.

Predictable.

Predicted.

Comics will survive.

The DM will die and the world will be better for it.

It has literally nothing to do with diversity and inclusion and everything to do with how healthy markets work.

Adapt or die.

The end.

[scary harpy]

Okay, I'll ask the dumb question: what about cartoons? (Where do they fit in this distribution model?)

I remember my first comic: my father bought me an issue of Batman...and the villainess was Catwoman. The only reason I knew who those characters were was because I had watched Filmations' Batman cartoons.

Let's not underestimate how important these cartoons are. I'm sure many of us old timers were first introduced to superheroes on Saturday morning. I'm also sure the Superfriends cartoons were in more homes than the Justice League comics were. Teen Titans Go has entertained children for over 7 years now.

So where are the cartoons that reach young children?

I know the new Batwheels cartoon is aimed for young audiences and I think that is fantastic. But...where is it going to be shown?

If DC wants to reach a new audience, they have to start young and go where they are watching.

Just my thoughts.

[married guy]

Okay, I'll ask the dumb question: what about cartoons? (Where do they fit in this distribution model?)

I remember my first comic: my father bought me an issue of Batman...and the villainess was Catwoman. The only reason I knew who those characters were was because I had watched Filmations' Batman cartoons.

Let's not underestimate how important these cartoons are. I'm sure many of us old timers were first introduced to superheroes on Saturday morning. I'm also sure the Superfriends cartoons were in more homes than the Justice League comics were. Teen Titans Go has entertained children for over 7 years now.

So where are the cartoons that reach young children?

I know the new Batwheels cartoon is aimed for young audiences and I think that is fantastic. But...where is it going to be shown?

If DC wants to reach a new audience, they have to start young and go where they are watching.

Just my thoughts.

Something I've never understood which you touched upon.
For a good while, DC had some BIG winners on the idiot box.
Batman TAS, Superman TAS, Batman Beyond, Justice League up to Teen Titans and Young Justice.
ALL these eyeballs on these shows - literally millions watching, and NO advertising worth noting.
I'd be pimping the **** out of our digital comics available for download (with a CHEAP pricepoint!) and hey, there's also the DC channel! Ask mum & dad to subscribe and get all this great stuff about the cartoon characters you love! Love that?? How about our great new line of DC toys! Take your favourite characters home with you!!

You get my point. WB wasn't interested in building the comic market. Neither is AT&T. What they don't get is by neglecting the DCU it will eventually kill the golden goose.
If there is no longer a comic book industry, the characters will wither. Yes, Batman and Superman will always perservere, but a much more diminished rate.
Look after the books! Yes, they don't make you anywhere near the money other streams offer, but they FEED those other streams.

OK, I'm done ranting and raving now.