Red Hood #51 by Shawn Martinbrough and Tony Akins

[J. D. Guy]

Hadn't realzied this was just a 2-parter. Kinda sucks, honestly. Would have liked to see this fleshed out more.

[fearyouhavemeisenough]

And that's the amazing creative team that took Red Hood instead of Lobdell? For this mediocre number did they disintegrate the trinity that most of us liked so much? I'm not saying Lobdell was the best of the best, he lifted the story to drop steadily, but at least he FOCUSED ON JASON and his crew, this man focuses on his supporting characters.
The story would not be so bad if it were a series in which he introduced a new character, but what this man did is give prominence to a large number of characters that do not interest Jason Todd fans.
In an interview, Shawn gave me the appearance of the man as if he was doing DC a favor by doing these numbers because he had other things in hand, he only accepted because he wanted to have a chance as a writer, From So he let it be understood that he is not interested in Jason's character or a little research, so he focused on building new characters.
This will be the first issue of Red Hood that I don't buy, I don't think what DC is doing, to Nightwing and Batman, they give good writers, even to any character and to Jason, what do they give him? A CARTOONIST WITHOUT EXPERIENCE WHO DOES NOT KNOW THE CHARACTER TO WRITE IT. It was logical that it was going to be a disaster, as I say a number for the other characters but FOR RED HOOD where it is almost non-existent sucks.

[Zaresh]

Uh, a bit too hard, hey.
This is a fill in. It's not the creative team that will take on the book. And they broke the former team probably out of politeness for the next regular creative team. It's a pretty common practice, I think. That way, the new team can either follow on the same dynamic and storyline with a fast fix, or start from a clear check point. It has happened before and will happen again. And it's not just with Red Hood. It's not even a DC thing.

(My personal problem and crusade is still with the future estate stuff. Each one fight our own conflics, I guess)

[Kurisu]

There’s more depth and nuance in these twenty pages than the character has gotten in a decade. You love to see it.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

There’s more depth and nuance in these twenty pages than the character has gotten in a decade. You love to see it.

How so?

I didn't see anything here that wasn't done by Lobdell before and overall, Jason came off more like Dick-lite.

[Jackalope89]

There’s more depth and nuance in these twenty pages than the character has gotten in a decade. You love to see it.

So he has a safe house with a trusted informant... Not exactly "depth" or "nuance". Only thing now is that he's dealing with a new crop of vigilantes not related to Bruce or the Birds.

[Zaresh]

Haters of each side (however their reasons for hating are, whatevr they hate) are always pretty biased or blind. You guys should see reddit. It was, wow. Passions are like that.

Just remember, my mates of thread, when arguing, that each one of us own our blind spots.

[Restingvoice]

How so?

I didn't see anything here that wasn't done by Lobdell before and overall, Jason came off more like Dick-lite.

Okay, I wasn't gonna say it but since you brought it up first ^^

Staying in an older neighborhood of Gotham and mingling among the people (so he can be close to help them) is Dick's thing. Every time he settles in a city, that's his method of crime-fighting and his contrast with Bruce, who stays in the suburb far away from the center of the action.

Now, I don't know how far the similarity runs. Like how far The Hill is crime-ridden, but one of the concepts of The Hill is that it's a neighborhood that Batman never really manages to help. It requires a different problem-solver and that's where Jason comes in.

Dick's thing is going in the middle of the shadiest neighborhood to set up shop and bring light into it. That's why he went to Bludhaven because it was worse than Gotham.

The Hill seems self-sufficient enough, and that's different than Dick's usual turf. Old Gotham, Chicago, and Classic Bludhaven don't have community defenders. So that's one difference. I like those supporting cast.

[Sergard]

Okay, I wasn't gonna say it but since you brought it up first ^^

Staying in an older neighborhood of Gotham and mingling among the people (so he can be close to help them) is Dick's thing. Every time he settles in a city, that's his method of crime-fighting and his contrast with Bruce, who stays in the suburb far away from the center of the action.

Now, I don't know how far the similarity runs. Like how far The Hill is crime-ridden, but one of the concepts of The Hill is that it's a neighborhood that Batman never really manages to help. It requires a different problem-solver and that's where Jason comes in.

Dick's thing is going in the middle of the shadiest neighborhood to set up shop and bring light into it. That's why he went to Bludhaven because it was worse than Gotham.

The Hill seems self-sufficient enough, and that's different than Dick's usual turf. Old Gotham, Chicago, and Classic Bludhaven don't have community defenders. So that's one difference. I like those supporting cast.

No, it's not. Being close to people who need help/living in bad places or poor neighborhoods is a very normal thing for heroes to do.

Can we please stop attributing generic story elements to Dick? It's upsetting how much Dick parasitizes on other characters, especially Jason, with this kind of mindset. Dick has 80 years of story-telling. At this point he has done everything. So basically no character in the DC universe should be allowed to do or have anything.

Jason was born into and raised in such a poor neighborhood - it makes perfect sense for his character to be there (especially because the empty apartment is maybe even his old hideout as a street kid before he was taken in by Batman.). But he shouldn't be allowed to because of Dick who has no connection to these places?

Dick is really the worst character that DC has ever created.

[Zaresh]

Have to agree with Serg. It is a very heroic thing to do. It does makes sense for Jason to be in such a place. And Dick's story is so long now that it's almost impossible to set someone in a setting he hasn't done yet. A bit selfcentered, if you ask me, saying that Jason shouldn't do this because Dick also did. And it doesn't help Dick either. It's even more selfcentered that what it rained back then, with Roy and Kori. It makes less sense for an argument, too.

[Aahz]

What I find more problematic is that for one Jason neighbourhood was allways Crime Alley and that the concept of "the Hill" is, that it is Gotham's black neighbourhood, which makes Jason there as much of an outsider as Bruce.

[lemonpeace]

What I find more problematic is that for one Jason neighbourhood was allways Crime Alley and that the concept of "the Hill" is, that it is Gotham's black neighbourhood, which makes Jason there as much of an outsider as Bruce.

and? if he knows people (which he apparently does) then he knows people, just because I live in Brooklyn doesn't mean Queens is some foreign country. I think you missed the point of the Hill, it's not simply "it's the black's area so Bruce doesn't go there" the point was that it's a place that's accessible but Batman regularely overlooked it. it would make sense that Jason, the one Robin that actually grew up on the streets of Gotham, would be more connected to more of the city; Tim is a silver spoon kid, same as Bruce, Damian was raised by assassins in a foreign land, and Dick was raised in a circus.

[Aahz]

I think you missed the point of the Hill, it's not simply "it's the black's area so Bruce doesn't go there"

That's kind of how it was defined pre flashpoint iirc (except for the doesn't go there part, he had just more problems to operate there since he couldn't easily go undercover).
And being the "black's area" is the trait that distinguishes the Hill from, Crime Alley, Narrows, the Couldron, East End and all the other overlooked parts of Gotham.

Sofar I didn't really read the issue (I usually wait for a story arc to conclude before I read it) but from quick glance it seems to imply that Jason is from the Hill, and that's simply not in line with canon.

[Riv86672]

Haters of each side (however their reasons for hating are, whatevr they hate) are always pretty biased or blind. You guys should see reddit. It was, wow. Passions are like that.

Just remember, my mates of thread, when arguing, that each one of us own our blind spots.

True true.

I mean, I was instantly bummed he was still wearing his redesigned outfit as this would have been a good time to ditch that atrocity and go back to his -real- costume. It’s a silly thing to focus on I know, but yeah, blind spot.

[OopsIdiditagain]

What I find more problematic is that for one Jason neighbourhood was allways Crime Alley and that the concept of "the Hill" is, that it is Gotham's black neighbourhood, which makes Jason there as much of an outsider as Bruce.

Not really, if he grew up there up until Bruce found him then he wasn't really an outsider. Jason would be more ostracized in Gotham's wealthy neighborhoods, he only spent a short amount there before dying, getting revived and acting as an Outlaw. Course, maybe not as much as Duke and Damian would but the difference is still there.