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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I don't think he could copy a Skyfather or anything.
    They have resistances to that sort of thing?
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  2. #17
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    They have resistances to that sort of thing?
    They are just too powerful. Comics are rife with people who copy whoever they touch until they try to copy someone with too much juice and they get dropped by it.

    Rogue, for example, jacks and/or copies powers from some pretty powerful people, but she's also been dropped like a bad habit trying to copy, say, Loki, who is waaaaaaaay under skyfather level.

    On top of that, powerjacking specifically (face it, it's more common than copying) is always shown as more difficult against stronger foes. And the power difference between a high-end skyfather and, again, Loki, is not small.
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  3. #18
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    They are just too powerful. Comics are rife with people who copy whoever they touch until they try to copy someone with too much juice and they get dropped by it.

    Rogue, for example, jacks and/or copies powers from some pretty powerful people, but she's also been dropped like a bad habit trying to copy, say, Loki, who is waaaaaaaay under skyfather level.

    On top of that, powerjacking specifically (face it, it's more common than copying) is always shown as more difficult against stronger foes. And the power difference between a high-end skyfather and, again, Loki, is not small.
    *coughs*BlackmagicStrange*coughs*

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  4. #19
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Obviously there are some exceptions - notably Doom has powerjacked a huge number of mid- and high-tier cosmics over time. Hell, MOON KNIGHT just powerjacked Strange, Iron Fist and stole Mjolnir from Allfather Thor and managed to imprison him in a mashup of a bunch of moons. You don't want to know the logic... wait... you do? Oh, you'll love this: Uru is apparently just super moon rock, and so Khonshu and his Fist can control Uru. I wish I were kidding.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Obviously there are some exceptions - notably Doom has powerjacked a huge number of mid- and high-tier cosmics over time. Hell, MOON KNIGHT just powerjacked Strange, Iron Fist and stole Mjolnir from Allfather Thor and managed to imprison him in a mashup of a bunch of moons. You don't want to know the logic... wait... you do? Oh, you'll love this: Uru is apparently just super moon rock, and so Khonshu and his Fist can control Uru. I wish I were kidding.
    But they can't control it enough to use mjolnier to hurt Black Panther, because mjolnier was fond of the first Black Panther from millions of years ago.

    They could use it to smack around Thor a bunch though.

  6. #21
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    ...and people wonder why I've given up purchasing comics.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  7. #22
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    But they can't control it enough to use mjolnier to hurt Black Panther, because mjolnier was fond of the first Black Panther from millions of years ago.

    They could use it to smack around Thor a bunch though.
    Yup. Mjolnir and BP are pals. Where do you think BP learned the Armbar Cosmic from?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    They are just too powerful. Comics are rife with people who copy whoever they touch until they try to copy someone with too much juice and they get dropped by it.

    Rogue, for example, jacks and/or copies powers from some pretty powerful people, but she's also been dropped like a bad habit trying to copy, say, Loki, who is waaaaaaaay under skyfather level.

    On top of that, powerjacking specifically (face it, it's more common than copying) is always shown as more difficult against stronger foes. And the power difference between a high-end skyfather and, again, Loki, is not small.
    How are they too powerful for a guy who can power drain those with a faaaaaaaaaar greater output than the galaxy at best destroying skyfather though?
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  9. #24
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    It's a valid point.

    It's not like these massively potent beings have some special power preventing them from being power-jacked. We've seen Doom steal power from all manner of beings. Strange has stolen power from entities who would wipe the walls with Odin (back when that meant something). It seems to more be a factor of 'Rogue, she can only absorb so much power', ie it's the absorber who has the limits, not the absorbee who imposes limits (if that makes any sense).

    If this dude HAS absorbed power from people who are on the level of a Marvel Cosmic - or above them - and shown no real limits, then really the only argument is 'He steals Ki, and their power isn't Ki' or something along those lines. And if he's stealing all manner of different kinds powers from people (I know Dragonball has magic as well as Ki, doesn't it?) and beings, then I'd be pretty leery of denying him the capacity to do the same to a Marvel Cosmic.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Obviously there are some exceptions - notably Doom has powerjacked a huge number of mid- and high-tier cosmics over time. Hell, MOON KNIGHT just powerjacked Strange, Iron Fist and stole Mjolnir from Allfather Thor and managed to imprison him in a mashup of a bunch of moons. You don't want to know the logic... wait... you do? Oh, you'll love this: Uru is apparently just super moon rock, and so Khonshu and his Fist can control Uru. I wish I were kidding.
    That certainly is something I have read today.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It's a valid point.

    It's not like these massively potent beings have some special power preventing them from being power-jacked. We've seen Doom steal power from all manner of beings. Strange has stolen power from entities who would wipe the walls with Odin (back when that meant something). It seems to more be a factor of 'Rogue, she can only absorb so much power', ie it's the absorber who has the limits, not the absorbee who imposes limits (if that makes any sense).

    If this dude HAS absorbed power from people who are on the level of a Marvel Cosmic - or above them - and shown no real limits, then really the only argument is 'He steals Ki, and their power isn't Ki' or something along those lines. And if he's stealing all manner of different kinds powers from people (I know Dragonball has magic as well as Ki, doesn't it?) and beings, then I'd be pretty leery of denying him the capacity to do the same to a Marvel Cosmic.
    Magic has been shown to be separate from Ki. Though depending on the user, just as potent. Like Majin Buu. Can turn entire cities worth of people into candy in a second. Even Buuhan could turn Vegito, a being more powerful than him, into candy (sentient candy that pummeled him, but still).

    Overall, I'd say Moro's capabilities to copy powers far outclasses Rogue's. Considering in his "weak form" (when he was super old) he was still a threat for Goku and Vegeta post Tournament of Power (along with the constant energy drain that has a very wide effect it seems).

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Moro's (or rather, 73's) power copying doesn't drain the target at all, it just perfectly copies the power and abilities of anyone he touches on the back of the neck, up to and including an Angel who is at least as strong as Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. The only real limit to that ability shown thus far is that Moro isn't necessarily skilled enough in the absorbed powers and skills to be able to perfectly regulate them, but it requires him trying to keep up with Ultra Instinct Goku for an extended period of time before he started tearing himself apart with that power (in addition to all the other powers he has also arrived up to that point).

    He's also still an intensely powerful mage who is able to pretty much instantly absorb the life energy of entire planets and people on the tier of Super Saiyajin Blue Goku/Vegeta without even needing to touch them (the weakness to *that* ability is that it technically isn't an AOE, he just had the ability to precisely target countless numbers of people at a time in away that Goku didn't seem able to detect until he started tapping into Ultra Instinct, IIRC). I'm not really certain that Terrax or Surfer could really keep him from just hijacking their life force before he has instakilled them with it (the only reason that the protagonists lived long enough to be able to have a round 2 is because he wanted to keep them around as a regenerating food source).

  13. #28
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Moro's (or rather, 73's) power copying doesn't drain the target at all, it just perfectly copies the power and abilities of anyone he touches on the back of the neck, up to and including an Angel who is at least as strong as Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. The only real limit to that ability shown thus far is that Moro isn't necessarily skilled enough in the absorbed powers and skills to be able to perfectly regulate them, but it requires him trying to keep up with Ultra Instinct Goku for an extended period of time before he started tearing himself apart with that power (in addition to all the other powers he has also arrived up to that point).

    He's also still an intensely powerful mage who is able to pretty much instantly absorb the life energy of entire planets and people on the tier of Super Saiyajin Blue Goku/Vegeta without even needing to touch them (the weakness to *that* ability is that it technically isn't an AOE, he just had the ability to precisely target countless numbers of people at a time in away that Goku didn't seem able to detect until he started tapping into Ultra Instinct, IIRC). I'm not really certain that Terrax or Surfer could really keep him from just hijacking their life force before he has instakilled them with it (the only reason that the protagonists lived long enough to be able to have a round 2 is because he wanted to keep them around as a regenerating food source).
    Merus was not as strong as MUI Goku though. Whis? Sure. But not Merus.

    Also, the manga power levels don't seem as out of hand as the anime. The "universe busting" levels don't seem quite so commonplace.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Merus was not as strong as MUI Goku though. Whis? Sure. But not Merus.

    Also, the manga power levels don't seem as out of hand as the anime. The "universe busting" levels don't seem quite so commonplace.
    In addition to SSG Goku and Beerus shaking the universe via fist clashing, t was implied during Beerus and Champas fight that they were about to destroy the entire universe had Whis and Vados not interfered iirc. And Goku is definitively stronger than them now with MUI.

    As for stuff after, all we have outside of Zeno is when Moros was going to blow up, the energy he had amassed would have either destroyed the galaxy, or the universe(translation said galaxy, but I am wondering if that is a mistranslation or not based on the fact that they claimed the super Dragon balls would be destroyed if Moro blew up and destroyed the galaxy despite the fact that the Super Dragon balls were scattered throughout the entire 6 and 7 universes, not galaxy). So there is also that.
    Last edited by Cody; 11-26-2020 at 10:26 AM.
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