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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    His first run on Spec Spider-Man is pretty well regarded, especially the Harry Osborn saga. I do have my problems with it admittedly, i don't like the idea of Peter feeling guilt because of his parents death, because it's frankly nonsensical (i mostly blame that on whateve weird stuff was in Harry's bomb), but i still like it, it even has a pretty funny issue with Frog Man.

    His second run on Spider-Man isn't as well regarded, but it is solid for the most part.

    Now his ASM run is more mixed, leaning to more bad than good honestly, especially with Judas mysterious mystery aura...of mystery, but it has good moments here and there. I think that his hight points are MJ subplot in Back From the Edge (the Peter parts go between ok and really dumb) and 400.
    I agree on Spectacular Spider-Man.

    He also had a decent run on Marvel Team Up.

    A problem with his Amazing Spider-Man is that most issues were crossovers. Strangely enough, my favorite DeMatteis/ Bagley comic is the Spider-Man/ Batman crossover one-shot.

    In addition to being a top five Spider-Man writer, DeMatteis is arguably a top ten Batman writer.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #17
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    Outside of Kraven's Last Hunt, I think I've only actually read Spectacular #200 and Amazing #400. Both are great comics and are highly recommend. My only complaint comes to Spectacular (and I get this is a bot of blasphemy here) but Sal Buscema's art is a bit too blocky for me. I love his art, but maybe it's because I prefer his Brother's John art.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    As people have already said, JMD is a top Spider-Man writer and he wrote some of the best comicbooks of Spider-Man besides KLH.
    I think the Harry Osborn Saga is just as good, with Child Within and Spec #189 and #200, there're also other good stories in-between; Funeral Arrangements and the frogs are very different in tone but both great.

    His regular issues in the 90s Clone Saga are a mixed bag, trapped in crossovers, but he did ASM #400, Lost Years and Redemption, which elevate a little that period of Spider-Man comics that were almost unreadable imo.

    I don't know how hard it's to track the Harry Osborn Saga nowadays, since it spanned for several issues, Child Within was reprinted not so long ago in Spain and France, the french edition I think it also collects Spec #189 and #200. Anyways, if you can get hold of those stories, I highly recommend them
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Probably doesn't count, but I enjoyed his run on Marvel Team-Up (a personal favorite being MTU #119):



    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Team-Up_Vol_1_119
    This is one of the very first comics I bought as a kid and it's one of my favorites as well.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    His first run on Spec Spider-Man is pretty well regarded, especially the Harry Osborn saga. I do have my problems with it admittedly, i don't like the idea of Peter feeling guilt because of his parents death, because it's frankly nonsensical.
    The thing is that it is very natural for orphans to feel guilt for their parents death--it seems nonsensical from an adult perspective, but children often internalize that survivor's guilt. The idea that Peter would carry it with him and not process it until he was well into adulthood is not far-fetched at all; DeMatteis was utilizing a very common phenomenon.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    The thing is that it is very natural for orphans to feel guilt for their parents death--it seems nonsensical from an adult perspective, but children often internalize that survivor's guilt. The idea that Peter would carry it with him and not process it until he was well into adulthood is not far-fetched at all; DeMatteis was utilizing a very common phenomenon.
    I'm aware, but for what i know (and forgive me if i am wrong, i'm no expert in child psychology and i'm willing to be corrected), when an orphan feel guilt about their parents death isn't usually something that happens when the child is old enought to actually remember their parents?, Peter was a year old when they left him with Ben and May and never came back, i'm sure that a part of him miss then and wondered what would have been different if they came back, but feeling guilt seems a bit far fetched considering the circumstances.

    As i said thought, if i'm wrong feel free to correct me.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I'm aware, but for what i know (and forgive me if i am wrong, i'm no expert in child psychology and i'm willing to be corrected), when an orphan feel guilt about their parents death isn't usually something that happens when the child is old enought to actually remember their parents?, Peter was a year old when they left him with Ben and May and never came back, i'm sure that a part of him miss then and wondered what would have been different if they came back, but feeling guilt seems a bit far fetched considering the circumstances.

    As i said thought, if i'm wrong feel free to correct me.
    Again, you are applying adult logic to children. A child who loses or is abandoned by their parents doesn't have the emotional development to rationally sift through the underlying reasons why their parents left. I'm not an expert in child psychology, but in many childhood traumas, the child feels guilt. (Physical and sexual abuse victims often experience this as well.) Peter might not be old enough to remember his parents leaving, but he grew up knowing that they'd left, that they'd left him, that at his spelling bees and science fairs other kids had their parents there and he didn't. I'm sure Ben and May explained that his parents left for work, that they'd died, but a child often will internalize the abandonment--"it's my fault" in part because children have a very self-centered view of the world (the term self-centered has a negative connotation, but the ability to empathize and view the world beyond yourself is something you develop as you grow older) and taking blame is also away of trying to take control. Again, it doesn't make logical sense, but it is a very common reaction to trauma.
    Childhood trauma is a very common theme that DeMatteis uses in his writing. His creator owned book "Seekers: Into the Mystery" deals with this directly, but he's examined the childhood traumas of many characters in the DC/Marvel universes, including Vermin and Harry Osborn in "The Child Within." Around the time of "Batman Forever" he did a one-shot with Scott McDaniel focusing on the childhood abuse Harvey Dent suffered that led to him becoming Two-Face, and he created the villain "Sir" in his brief Daredevil run, whose abuse as a child played a heavy role in their origin. (And I know I'm forgetting about others--he writes about it a lot!) I don't want to speak for him, but given how much JMD has written about this, I have to believe that he has done research about the topic, and his take on Peter's feelings about his parents does square with much of what I have read about childhood trauma.

  8. #23
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    Happy Birthday J.M. DeMatteis

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    J. M. DeMatteis is by general consent one of the greatest writers to ever work on Spider-Man. KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT is his masterpiece, and his best story.
    Hear! Hear!
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/J.M._DeMatteis

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    If JMD didn't write Kraven's Last Hunt, he would still be a top ten Spider-Man writer, and arguably top three.

    He has an underrated Marvel Team-Up run in the 80s. It's quirky and fun.
    His first Spectacular Spider-Man run has the Harry Osborn saga, which may be the most acclaimed long-form Spider-Man story. I don't think any of the usual suspects (the Hobgoblin saga, Superior Spider-Man) match it in terms of having a satisfying beginning, middle and end.
    He's probably the most acclaimed clone saga writer, with a stint on Amazing Spider-Man that includes some classic issues, and some acclaimed Ben Reilly mini-series.
    His second Spectacular Spider-Man run was the best Spider-Man run in the years after the Clone Saga.
    He's got assorted other stories some of which are quite decent. I think his Spider-Man/ Batman one-shot with Bagley is the best Carnage comic.

    * Edit- I didn't realize this was an old thread, and that I had said much of the above before. But JMD is a great Spidey writer, even if you didn't consider his best story.

    This may be an interesting exercise. What is Todd Mcfarlane and David Michelinie without Venom, or Gerry Conway without the death of Gwen Stacy?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  10. #25

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    I like that this thread of praise popped back up today, because it's his birthday.
    harryosborn.net -Me rereading every single comic that has Harry Osborn in it, and also writing some articles.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If JMD didn't write Kraven's Last Hunt, he would still be a top ten Spider-Man writer, and arguably top three.

    He has an underrated Marvel Team-Up run in the 80s. It's quirky and fun.
    His first Spectacular Spider-Man run has the Harry Osborn saga, which may be the most acclaimed long-form Spider-Man story. I don't think any of the usual suspects (the Hobgoblin saga, Superior Spider-Man) match it in terms of having a satisfying beginning, middle and end.
    He's probably the most acclaimed clone saga writer, with a stint on Amazing Spider-Man that includes some classic issues, and some acclaimed Ben Reilly mini-series.
    His second Spectacular Spider-Man run was the best Spider-Man run in the years after the Clone Saga.
    He's got assorted other stories some of which are quite decent. I think his Spider-Man/ Batman one-shot with Bagley is the best Carnage comic.

    * Edit- I didn't realize this was an old thread, and that I had said much of the above before. But JMD is a great Spidey writer, even if you didn't consider his best story.

    This may be an interesting exercise. What is Todd Mcfarlane and David Michelinie without Venom, or Gerry Conway without the death of Gwen Stacy?
    Michelinie (I hope for a day when I don’t have to double-check my spelling of that) was actually the writer of ASM when I first picked it up as a kid, so I’ll always have a soft spot for him. I reread his run often. Nowadays I can spot the flaws more easily (such as the very heavy-handed MJ “smoking is bad” subplot). But I think he wrote some great stories as well… ‘Return of the Sinister Six’, the first ‘Carnage’ 3-parter, ‘Powerless’, ‘Invasion of the Spider-Slayers’, the arc where he takes on Venom on a deserted island, his Doctor Doom 2-parter where Doom almost killed Peter, his Cardiac stories, and many more. It doesn’t hurt he had incredible artists on the book at the time, such as Bagley and Larsen (and sure McFarlane, even though I’m not personally a fan). Michelinie did fall off a bit during his last year on the book… ‘Life Theft’ and the ‘Death by Jury’ storylines aren’t very good. But overall his run is definitely in the top 3 runs I revisit, even if objectively I know he’s not a top 3 writer.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This may be an interesting exercise. What is Todd Mcfarlane and David Michelinie without Venom, or Gerry Conway without the death of Gwen Stacy?
    Conway has the way he improved MJ's character, and later on Spectacular and Web he had fun moments with MJ, but the Spidey stories themselves were between average and pretty bad, with Spidey becoming a moron for a plot to work, or becoming so weak that aunt May manages to knock him down with a vase.

    And yes, it does sound like Slott, though usually he avoided making Spidey look that much of a chump, but, again, he was defeated by aunt May once, with a vase, having that happen, even if it's just once, is really bad.

    Spidey had an ulcer at the time, it could be excused as the reason why he was knocked down, but nope, wasn't done.

    I think his actual talent was more on the character side compared to the action side, 'cause he did get the characters' voices well more often than not.

  13. #28
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This may be an interesting exercise. What is Todd Mcfarlane and David Michelinie without Venom...?
    Michelinie's style of writing, balance of characters (both individually and as an ensemble), his voice for the characters (both individually and as an ensemble), his pacing between action and soap opera and the danger/scale of his stories and threats are pretty much perfect. I genuinely believe that his style is the pinnacle of how a Spider-man run should be written. It helped that he was paired with artists and colourists who drew a bright and colourful world for them to inhabit.

    He actually does write my favourite Peter and MJ. They're real people in their early 20's who (mostly) react believably and are centered, happy and responsible people both individually and as a couple. They actually liked their life together and even their jobs. They are incredibly likable.

    They go through hardships but the book is always FUN (something often forgotten). They go through bad stuff but mostly the book never feels like a chore to read or makes me frustrated to be reading it.

    His Peter wasn't beholden to the "great power, great responsibility" millstone or constantly bringing up Ben's death. It was a factor but mostly he was Spider-man now, after a decade, because he loved doing it and he loved helping people.

    Don't you get sick of reading a Peter who feels OBLIGATED to help? Who feels it's ruining his life? Michelinie's Peter had a rock solid sense of right and wrong, forged by Ben's death but not defined by it.

    His villains weren't just the old favourites but he did bring them back, treated them with respect and made each feel like a legitimate threat.

    That's not to say Michelinie is one of my favourite Spider-man writers, the story content itself is incredibly hit-and-miss and a lot of his later run features villains with the same 'voice' and motivation, but the structure of his books and his Peter and MJ are nigh perfect.

    More writers should use him as a template. Spencer, up to and including Hunted, really reminded me of his pace/balance but he didn't have the depth of character.
    Last edited by exile001; 12-16-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If JMD didn't write Kraven's Last Hunt, he would still be a top ten Spider-Man writer, and arguably top three.

    He has an underrated Marvel Team-Up run in the 80s. It's quirky and fun.
    His first Spectacular Spider-Man run has the Harry Osborn saga, which may be the most acclaimed long-form Spider-Man story. I don't think any of the usual suspects (the Hobgoblin saga, Superior Spider-Man) match it in terms of having a satisfying beginning, middle and end.
    He's probably the most acclaimed clone saga writer, with a stint on Amazing Spider-Man that includes some classic issues, and some acclaimed Ben Reilly mini-series.
    His second Spectacular Spider-Man run was the best Spider-Man run in the years after the Clone Saga.
    He's got assorted other stories some of which are quite decent. I think his Spider-Man/ Batman one-shot with Bagley is the best Carnage comic.

    * Edit- I didn't realize this was an old thread, and that I had said much of the above before. But JMD is a great Spidey writer, even if you didn't consider his best story.

    This may be an interesting exercise. What is Todd Mcfarlane and David Michelinie without Venom, or Gerry Conway without the death of Gwen Stacy?
    Conway also created Jackal and Punisher. And let's not forget he was very young when he wrote Amazing. Just in his early 20's.

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