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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default How Was John Byrne Able to Reboot the Doom Patrol?

    I am currently reading Chris Claremont, John Byrne, and Jerry Ordway's arc in JLA, the Tenth Circle. On it's own merits, it's a great storyline, but put in the context of the wider DC Universe, it raises some troublesome questions.

    In the Tenth Circle, the Doom Patrol debut as if they were a new team: Rita Farr is still alive and well, Niles Caulder is back to having red hair, and the Justice League act like they've never met the Doom Patrol in their life.

    So Chris Claremont and John Byrne controversially wiped away all previous Doom Patrol stories from continuity. How was this accomplished? It would make sense if this new Doom Patrol were introduced in after universe altering events such as Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis, but they weren't. Was there an explanation given to justify this change in continuity?

    Was Byrne's Doom Patrol erased from continuity after Infinite Crisis? This would make sense because there were references made to the Morrison Doom Patrol in the pages of Geoff Johns' Teen Titans. Did Keith Giffen's Doom Patrol ignore or elaborate upon Byrne's run?
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 11-23-2020 at 01:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member Hol's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly it was later explained that it was due to a Superboy Prime punch. Someone correct me if I am wrong? But I feel like it was explained in the Infinite Crisis Secret Files?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    If I remember correctly it was later explained that it was due to a Superboy Prime punch. Someone correct me if I am wrong? But I feel like it was explained in the Infinite Crisis Secret Files?
    No you’re right. It was later retcon explained as Superboy Prime punch during Infinity Crisis.

    The problem the OP mentioned was at the time Byrne’s Doom Patrol appeared as if it were the first time in JLA.

    I can I tell you at the time fans were dumbfounded why this was occurring with no explanation. Especially with older Beast Boy still appearing in Teen Titans.

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Hol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    No you’re right. It was later retcon explained as Superboy Prime punch during Infinity Crisis.

    The problem the OP mentioned was at the time Byrne’s Doom Patrol appeared as if it were the first time in JLA.

    I can I tell you at the time fans were dumbfounded why this was occurring with no explanation. Especially with older Beast Boy still appearing in Teen Titans.
    Yeah I remember that now. It was so bizzare. For the life of me I will never understand why DC did that. It was a fun story arc though. Was there a series after? I do not recall.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    Yeah I remember that now. It was so bizzare. For the life of me I will never understand why DC did that. It was a fun story arc though. Was there a series after? I do not recall.
    Later, in Keith Giffin’s book, he had the girl Nudge killed by bullets, and Grunt carrying away her lifeless body.

  6. #6
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    Yeah I remember that now. It was so bizzare. For the life of me I will never understand why DC did that. It was a fun story arc though. Was there a series after? I do not recall.
    Byrne did a short-lived DP series after the JLA arc. It was all kinds of horrible, and to my knowledge has been quietly ignored for the most part since it ended.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Giffen’s run actually found a way to make all the different iterations of the Doom Patrol work in continuity. It’s actually one of my favorite runs on the team.

  8. #8
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Giffen’s run actually found a way to make all the different iterations of the Doom Patrol work in continuity. It’s actually one of my favorite runs on the team.
    Same here! Giffen's series was highly underrated and deserved to last longer than it did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Byrne did a short-lived DP series after the JLA arc. It was all kinds of horrible, and to my knowledge has been quietly ignored for the most part since it ended.
    I remember liking the book on its own merits. It was kind of great to see Byrne doing a throwback to the original Doom Patrol. There wasn't anything horrible about it on that score. It was just hard to accept it, as it would have wiped out everything else that had ever been done before with the Doom Patrol.

    Mind you, by that point a lot too many different versions of the Doom Patrol had been done. After the Grant Morrison run, the various attempts to breathe new life into the Doom Patrol were driving it into the ground and making it seem like a concept that had seen better days. Just like the publisher had done with Hawkman, the Titans, the Legion, etc. etc. If a concept keeps getting revived only to die quick deaths--it starts to stink like a corpse.

    So I can see why they let John Byrne do his own revival and go back to first principles.

    I remember there was also a crossover with his Generations comics in the series--suggesting that there were many different Hypertime realities and this was just one of them.
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    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I found both John Arcudi's and Keith Giffen's runs much more enjoyable, ymmv of course.

    I think by this point I was just done with Byrne in general. His Marvel work is the stuff of legend - with Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four, She-Hulk (even Namor) ranking among my favorite comics of all time. I also loved most of his Superman reboot, but beyond that I can't think of any DC work that I don't actively dislike... :-/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I remember liking the book on its own merits. It was kind of great to see Byrne doing a throwback to the original Doom Patrol. There wasn't anything horrible about it on that score. It was just hard to accept it, as it would have wiped out everything else that had ever been done before with the Doom Patrol.

    Mind you, by that point a lot too many different versions of the Doom Patrol had been done. After the Grant Morrison run, the various attempts to breathe new life into the Doom Patrol were driving it into the ground and making it seem like a concept that had seen better days. Just like the publisher had done with Hawkman, the Titans, the Legion, etc. etc. If a concept keeps getting revived only to die quick deaths--it starts to stink like a corpse.

    So I can see why they let John Byrne do his own revival and go back to first principles.

    I remember there was also a crossover with his Generations comics in the series--suggesting that there were many different Hypertime realities and this was just one of them.
    Since I became a comics fan in the 80s, I never hear anything about the Doom Patrol run that came after the originals.

    The one with the original Tempest, Celsius, Negative Woman.

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    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Same here! Giffen's series was highly underrated and deserved to last longer than it did.
    I wish it would have lasted longer but the sales numbers were horrible. I’m happy DC let it go on as long as it did. Still one of the best endings to a series ever!

  13. #13
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Since I became a comics fan in the 80s, I never hear anything about the Doom Patrol run that came after the originals.

    The one with the original Tempest, Celsius, Negative Woman.
    Do you mean Paul Kupperberg's 1987-88 run? While nothing amazing, it was still better than Byrne's...
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    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Do you mean Paul Kupperberg's 1987-88 run? While nothing amazing, it was still better than Byrne's...
    It was good kooky fun w. nice soap opera overtones.
    It really hit its stride when artist Steve Lightle left a few issues and Erik Larsen took over. His art perfectly complimented the golden age weirdness of classic DP villains like The Plastic Men, Gargaux, and Gen. Immortus.

    Nobody really remembers those early issues. Once Grant Morrison took over, he made it his own, no doubt!
    I still like that initial goofiness though.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Since I became a comics fan in the 80s, I never hear anything about the Doom Patrol run that came after the originals.

    The one with the original Tempest, Celsius, Negative Woman.
    I actually preferred the second team over the original; the doom patrol in general is too weird to me.

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