Marvel Earth v Krakoa

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Here's the thing if and when an X-Men versus Rest of Marvel Universe event comes up (and I am sure it will)...the X-Men will win this time. They didn't win Avengers v. X-Men, don't remember Inhumans v. X-Men (think it was a draw)...so they're due for a big win.

Leah Williams on twitter said this (https://twitter.com/mymonsterischic/...17861690236929) in response to one poster saying, "Why I get the feeling the Fall of X comes next"

She said, "bc u have been hurt too much in the past, but that's why Hickman told us a year ago, "We have. To give. Them wins."

[Jabare]

A lot of you seem to be banking your hats on Reed, Tony and Doom coming up with technology to block out the telepaths but you don't seem to understand that Krakoa has multiple people on the island that can control all forms of technology. All it would take is one of them to target one of the heavy hitters techno helmet and then the telepaths put them to sleep.

There are literally dozens upon dozens of super-geniuses on Marvel Earth's side. I won't even get into the characters who are straight-up immune to telepathy.

Just to name a few, you've got:

Doom, Tony, Reed, T'Challa, Dr. Doom, Blue Marvel, Hank Pym, Hiro, The Leader, Valerie Richards, Cho, Shuri, IronHeart, Ultron, Moon Girl, Dr. Octopus, The Tinkerer, The Maker, Modok, Arnim Zola

Over half of these characters would come up with several countermeasures of their own

If we are smart enough to foresee that then those characters already thought about it and concocted 18 different countermeasures/alternative plans


EDIT: I kind of want to delete this post now

[Force de Phenix]

Here's the thing if and when an X-Men versus Rest of Marvel Universe event comes up (and I am sure it will)...the X-Men will win this time. They didn't win Avengers v. X-Men, don't remember Inhumans v. X-Men (think it was a draw)...so they're due for a big win.

Leah Williams on twitter said this (https://twitter.com/mymonsterischic/...17861690236929) in response to one poster saying, "Why I get the feeling the Fall of X comes next"

She said, "bc u have been hurt too much in the past, but that's why Hickman told us a year ago, "We have. To give. Them wins."

How did they lose AVX? Mutants came back from not existing as a result of AVX. The X-Men won IVX. They got rid of the cloud and ended any future Earth inhumans from going through Terrigenisis, and they lived. They won plenty. The issue that some people have is that they were written to be an allegory of the weakest people in real society, but they are actually the strongest beings in their fictional world. They're a contradiction. I think Hickman is trying to cut the crap, and had them take the power they actually can attain if they had a strategy.

The X-Men/mutants are OP. Jean can take down all of the X-Men and a billion solar systems. Franklin Richards can make reality disappear. Magneto can change the Earth orbit and send it directly to the Sun. And when the Scarlet Witch was a mutant (and she'll be one again) she distorted the multiverse.

[TooFlyToFail]

Here's the thing if and when an X-Men versus Rest of Marvel Universe event comes up (and I am sure it will)...the X-Men will win this time. They didn't win Avengers v. X-Men, don't remember Inhumans v. X-Men (think it was a draw)...so they're due for a big win.

Leah Williams on twitter said this (https://twitter.com/mymonsterischic/...17861690236929) in response to one poster saying, "Why I get the feeling the Fall of X comes next"

She said, "bc u have been hurt too much in the past, but that's why Hickman told us a year ago, "We have. To give. Them wins."

Of course. Give them wins before it all comes crashing down, per Hickman style. This is Hickman ffs. This isn't ending happy.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Of course. Give them wins before it all comes crashing down, per Hickman style. This is Hickman ffs. This isn't ending happy.

Secret Wars 2015 did have an happy ending.

"Everything Lives"

[king of hybrids]

Here's the thing if and when an X-Men versus Rest of Marvel Universe event comes up (and I am sure it will)...the X-Men will win this time. They didn't win Avengers v. X-Men, don't remember Inhumans v. X-Men (think it was a draw)...so they're due for a big win.

Leah Williams on twitter said this (https://twitter.com/mymonsterischic/...17861690236929) in response to one poster saying, "Why I get the feeling the Fall of X comes next"

She said, "bc u have been hurt too much in the past, but that's why Hickman told us a year ago, "We have. To give. Them wins."

The thing is, what constitutes ‘winning’ in this context?

If it’s a straight up “kill every non-mutant marvel hero”, then obviously that’s not happening, if only because Spider-man. At most you might see the Marvel writers indulging in petty spite kills of MCU-connected characters in light of the bitter hatred the comics side has for it these days (and I can see Ewing throwing the Cosmics on Krakoa’s side just for that)

Shaming the rest of Marvel as “you are villains and you always have been”, or beating them into the ground and using their influence with the human governments to see them all hunted, hated and feared... slightly more doable. But it won’t stick, and you know it.

[Huntsman Spider]

The thing is, what constitutes ‘winning’ in this context?

If it’s a straight up “kill every non-mutant marvel hero”, then obviously that’s not happening, if only because Spider-man. At most you might see the Marvel writers indulging in petty spite kills of MCU-connected characters in light of the bitter hatred the comics side has for it these days (and I can see Ewing throwing the Cosmics on Krakoa’s side just for that)

Shaming the rest of Marvel as “you are villains and you always have been”, or beating them into the ground and using their influence with the human governments to see them all hunted, hated and feared... slightly more doable. But it won’t stick, and you know it.

Won't stick, true, but if it causes some of the ones who've all too often turned a blind eye to the persecution of mutants by the same humans they protect, individually and collectively, to reflect on what's come of their refusal or inability to stand up for their erstwhile mutant allies, it might accomplish some good in the long term. Hell, the original Civil War gave nonmutant superheroes a taste of what it was like to be as feared and hated by the public as mutantkind had been for so long after Stamford, which to me would explain the ones who went all in on registration, desperation to regain the public's trust as opposed to continuing to incur their fear and hatred, even if it meant selling out other heroes who'd fought beside them for years. It's not so much a matter of nonmutant superheroes being the bad guys all along with regards to the mutant plight, as it is forcing them to realize that by not taking a stand "either way," they've (unwittingly) enabled the continued persecution of mutants that's driven so many to Krakoa and (potentially) turned them against the rest of the world.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The thing is, what constitutes ‘winning’ in this context?

Winning is the Avengers and X-Men rumble...and the Avengers lose a straight up fight.

Tony Stark and Iron Man use all the anti-mutant power devices they have and the X-Men bypass that and kick his a--. Iron Man goes against Magneto and he says "your magnetism won't work on me" and then Magneto does a real boss move (because he's Omega level, his powers have no upper-limit and cannot be surpassed by humans) and Tony walks away with his a-- handed to him.

Other Avengers go all "your telepathy can't work on us" and the X-Men break them as well.

That's all I want. I don't really want the Avengers to be slaves or cattle for mutantkind, just eat pavement for a little while s'all.

[Noek]

Winning is the Avengers and X-Men rumble...and the Avengers lose a straight up fight.

Tony Stark and Iron Man use all the anti-mutant power devices they have and the X-Men bypass that and kick his a--. Iron Man goes against Magneto and he says "your magnetism won't work on me" and then Magneto does a real boss move (because he's Omega level, his powers have no upper-limit and cannot be surpassed by humans) and Tony walks away with his a-- handed to him.

Other Avengers go all "your telepathy can't work on us" and the X-Men break them as well.

That's all I want. I don't really want the Avengers to be slaves or cattle for mutantkind, just eat pavement for a little while s'all.

... So you are just trolling.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

... So you are just trolling.

What do you think hero versus hero fights were all about. These aren't actually wars, or conflicts or anything with real stakes in it.

It's just a d--k measuring contest about which is the bigger and more interesting brand in that moment.

[charliehustle415]

What do you think hero versus hero fights were all about. These aren't actually wars, or conflicts or anything with real stakes in it.

It's just a d--k measuring contest about which is the bigger and more interesting brand in that moment.

Exactly, it's basically what the Rumble Forums are.

[PhoenixThanos]

Winning is the Avengers and X-Men rumble...and the Avengers lose a straight up fight.

Tony Stark and Iron Man use all the anti-mutant power devices they have and the X-Men bypass that and kick his a--. Iron Man goes against Magneto and he says "your magnetism won't work on me" and then Magneto does a real boss move (because he's Omega level, his powers have no upper-limit and cannot be surpassed by humans) and Tony walks away with his a-- handed to him.

Other Avengers go all "your telepathy can't work on us" and the X-Men break them as well.

That's all I want. I don't really want the Avengers to be slaves or cattle for mutantkind, just eat pavement for a little while s'all.

Have you even read any of the X-Men comics latey, the Doctor Doom series ?.
The Marvel Earth side of things also has Wakanda and the Black Panther.
Marvel Earth isn't all about Tony Stark (Iron Man).
The Mutants through Krakoa have really become a force to be reckoned with on the world stage, with Krakoa currently merging with Arrako it will be intetesting where things go from here.
The recent X-Men/Fantastic Four mini series showed how forceful Charles Xavier can be under the current circumstances.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Have you even read any of the X-Men comics latey, the Doctor Doom series ?.

I have.

The Marvel Earth side of things also has Wakanda and the Black Panther.

The Marvel Earth side has Krakoa and the X-men. They are part of Marvel Earth too, as much as anyone here.

What people mean by this vaguely bigoted phrase (as if the X-Men and mutantkind are somehow other or alien, or that Marvel Earth can only be understood as Human Earth) is The Avengers and Fantastic Four essentially.

Marvel Earth isn't all about Tony Stark (Iron Man).

He's the most prominent Avenger these days. So I used him as representative.

[Agent Z]

Winning is the Avengers and X-Men rumble...and the Avengers lose a straight up fight.

Tony Stark and Iron Man use all the anti-mutant power devices they have and the X-Men bypass that and kick his a--. Iron Man goes against Magneto and he says "your magnetism won't work on me" and then Magneto does a real boss move (because he's Omega level, his powers have no upper-limit and cannot be surpassed by humans) and Tony walks away with his a-- handed to him.

Other Avengers go all "your telepathy can't work on us" and the X-Men break them as well.

That's all I want. I don't really want the Avengers to be slaves or cattle for mutantkind, just eat pavement for a little while s'all.

You're saying this like the Avengers have never suffered loss before in their lives.

I have.



The Marvel Earth side has Krakoa and the X-men. They are part of Marvel Earth too, as much as anyone here.

What people mean by this vaguely bigoted phrase (as if the X-Men and mutantkind are somehow other or alien, or that Marvel Earth can only be understood as Human Earth) is The Avengers and Fantastic Four essentially.



He's the most prominent Avenger these days. So I used him as representative.

Please. Let's not pretend like this notion isn't being encouraged if not outright advocated by both X-Men fans and the people writing the X-Men as well.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Please. Let's not pretend like this notion isn't being encouraged if not outright advocated by both X-Men fans and the people writing the X-Men as well.

The notion encouraged by the people writing X-Men is in fact the opposite.

The X-Men are in fact far more a part of Marvel Earth than anyone else. Mutantkind is a product of planetary biological and biomechanical evolution, a new species evolved in reaction to the anthropocene and humankind's ruthless harvesting of resources in its drive for capitalist hegemony and eating away at resources.

"Mutants are an evolutionary response to an environment. You are...naturally occurring. But what happens when humanity stops being beholden to its environments? When man controls the building blocks of biology and technology... Evolution is no match for genetic engineering. What good was one mutant adapting to its environment when we could make ten super men? You thought it was the machines that would defeat you...but we just used them to buy time. Sentinels bought us years. Nimrods bought us decades."
-- The Librarian, Powers of X #6.

So basically mutants were the biosphere of Earth empowering a section of humanity to create a new alternative for the planet and its resources and its way of life from becoming completely subsumed by the cold singularity.

"In return for making our lives better, we will do the same for you. And if you find yourself asking, who are these mutants to think they can dictate terms to us? We are the future. An evolutionary inevitability. The Earth's true inheritors. You closed your eyes last night believing this world would be yours forever. That was your dream. And like mine...it was a lie. Here is the new truth: While you slept, the world changed."
— Professor X

So this entire phrase is wrong.

Krakoa is far more a part of Marvel Earth than New York City for instance. The latter is built on land stolen from the Natives and built on genocide and ethnic cleansing. Krakoa is a living continent older than nation states. So Marvel Earth v. Krakoa wouldn't be a fight unless you think your hand can get into a fight with your foot. Because those two are closer in bond and connection than anything else.

It should be the Fantastic Four versus Marvel Earth. The Avengers versus Marvel Earth, Latveria versus Marvel Earth.