Marvel Earth v Krakoa

[Noek]

Jefferson Twilight. Blacula hunter.

This has to take the best reply medal.

[Ferro]

Maybe a rebel group helps the others thus putting the super powers (nations not powered beings) at a better ease the this nation will choose Earth over Mutant, and for comic readers just get everything done with in one big event. Still hoping Marvel allows Inhumans to get something around that time.

I mean, mutants chose themselves because no one else in the marvel universe ever cares?
why must mutants prove themselves worthy when they are helping the world even now as we see in King in black, they have political trade and a capital law to protect humans, why can't the heroes of the earth work first on the very reason why most of the mutant population willingly and joyfully left the human world for krakoa?

you're basicaly sugesting what many western nations have done to other developing countries, and if it came to pass Mutants would be stupid to remain on the earth when even the shiar empire treats them with more respect.

And the fallout of the inhumans isnt the x-men's fault, btw!

[Noek]

I mean, mutants chose themselves because no one else in the marvel universe ever cares?
why must mutants prove themselves worthy when they are helping the world even now as we see in King in black, they have political trade and a capital law to protect humans, why can't the heroes of the earth work first on the very reason why most of the mutant population willingly and joyfully left the human world for krakoa?

you're basicaly sugesting what many western nations have done to other developing countries, and if it came to pass Mutants would be stupid to remain on the earth when even the shiar empire treats them with more respect.

And the fallout of the inhumans isnt the x-men's fault, btw!

Yes I am sugesting that, cause that is basically is what is happening in the comics, the Superpowers don't trust them. That is no secret, so what other ways are there. But sure let the Mutants lead and find an uninhabitable planet in the Shi'ar Empire, terraform it, and have them join that. Unless it is a cosmic event they don't need to worry about the rest of the Marvel universe (fans as well), and those who join them, line in the sand, set in stone, those characters are X office, any Mutant who doesn't go is fair game to the writers and earth stories.

I wasn't blaming the X-men I just feel that some Inhumans would hate Mutants so the story would work, and Inhuman fans get something with the characters we like.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I mean, mutants chose themselves because no one else in the marvel universe ever cares?
why must mutants prove themselves worthy when they are helping the world even now as we see in King in black, they have political trade and a capital law to protect humans, why can't the heroes of the earth work first on the very reason why most of the mutant population willingly and joyfully left the human world for krakoa?

It's getting worrying how when mutants have nations they 'choose' not to have democracies and even Krkaoa is more sinister then what the leadership wants the populace to know, that's why its easy to lure mutants in but they should be far more skeptical when everyone knows the membership of the Quiet Council. That mutants are so desperate that they'd choose their own oppressors in the mutant community over humanity isn't that noble, and it's going to bite them eventually. Some it has already, like the Externals. Apocalypse sacrificed most of them to make a gate, it ws ab betrayal. That's what you get for trusting En Sabah Nur.

Because they're not gods above reproach and have shown they have very human habits, despite the growing distancing from humanity itself. This was true even before Krakoa. As a nation they have responsibilities like every other nation and how they're doing things is very sus.

Don't reduce the problems of mutant oppression with humans bad mutants good rhetoric. It also diminishes how dangerous and monstrous many members of the mutant community are to the world and their own kind. Just because Apocalypse is a mutant didn't make all his mutant victims look fondly on their lives being ruined and it's not like being a mutant in itself is a get out of jail free car for him to protect them. Apocalypse is more delusional about his godhood then actual deities in the Marvel universe. He's not mutant Julius Caesar, he's a sentient delusional black plague who kills everyone. Which the comics routinely ominously point out not to trust, because that ends in tears.

you're basicaly sugesting what many western nations have done to other developing countries, and if it came to pass Mutants would be stupid to remain on the earth when even the shiar empire treats them with more respect.

The Shi'Ar are acceptable but human nations aren't? That's the inherent hypocrisy of Krakao, they're fine with imperialism as long as they or their allies do it, they don't have a problem with imperialism itself. The Shi'Ar are incredibly space racist, it's why Xavier hated living there as Liliandra's consort they also have warrior society where strength is valued overall, they're spec Sparta.
They're a warrior culture who value strength about all else, Might Makes Right philosophy. Read what Sam had to do to get permission from Smasher's Imperil Guard supervisor just to continue dating her in Avengers World.

And the fallout of the inhumans isnt the x-men's fault, btw!

The X-men ren't innocent parties in that, when the Inhuman family regretted the decision with the clouds and got rid of them Frost declared war on them. Emma's really good at evading accountability when she does something horrible.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I mean in an apocalyptic "the mutants are about to kill billions" scenario, what would exactly stop another No More Mutants?

They don't need Scarlet Witch for that, there are many members on the Quiet Council who'd do that again and mutants wouldn't be left out of that kill count.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Jefferson Twilight. Blacula hunter.

Gah, now you made me sad that show is over.

[Ferro]

Yes I am sugesting that, cause that is basically is what is happening in the comics, the Superpowers don't trust them. That is no secret, so what other ways are there. But sure let the Mutants lead and find an uninhabitable planet in the Shi'ar Empire, terraform it, and have them join that. Unless it is a cosmic event they don't need to worry about the rest of the Marvel universe (fans as well), and those who join them, line in the sand, set in stone, those characters are X office, any Mutant who doesn't go is fair game to the writers and earth stories.

I wasn't blaming the X-men I just feel that some Inhumans would hate Mutants so the story would work, and Inhuman fans get something with the characters we like.

but why? Why must the remaining of the marvel universe be entitled to trashing the mutants, why cant the political intrigue be a story for the benefit of the x-mythos, not just to give every other marvel propriety an avengers. vs x-men 2.0 tie?

You understand why this type of awfully common opinion by non xmen readers just reafirms mine and other's opinion that the x-men are better off in their own universe where other characters arent allowed free reign to ruin it for the enjoyment of everyone but x-men fans.

And royals was an excelent title, the inhumans really don't need to rekindle an agressive and toxic rivalry when they have a lot of story potential and loose threads to get to.

[Noek]

but why? Why must the remaining of the marvel universe be entitled to trashing the mutants, why cant the political intrigue be a story for the benefit of the x-mythos, not just to give every other marvel propriety an avengers. vs x-men 2.0 tie?

You understand why this type of awfully common opinion by non xmen readers just reafirms mine and other's opinion that the x-men are better off in their own universe where other characters arent allowed free reign to ruin it for the enjoyment of everyone but x-men fans.

And royals was an excelent title, the inhumans really don't need to rekindle an agressive and toxic rivalry when they have a lot of story potential and loose threads to get to.

Maybe they don't need to, but this whole this here is about Earth v Krakoa right, that's what the topic is on. If you don't like that WHY ARE YOU HERE!? Yes there are loose threads, but honestly I feel that could be also a story, and it isn't just IvX but also in the case of Secret Empire the Inhumans were put in camps, while the Mutants got a nation, and then the Mutants go totally free. I feel that is a story, and yes there are others as well don't get me wrong, but we are on the topic of Earth vs Krakoa.

[Draegwolf]

I mean, mutants chose themselves because no one else in the marvel universe ever cares?

What the mutants tend to forget is that they're not the only ones with problems, the rest of the world has their own crap to deal with to devote the time to a group of people who quite honestly antagonize everyone.

The real problem is that the mutants feel entitled to special treatment and expect the world to conform to them, anyone that doesn't agree with them 100% on everything is an enemy. Krakoa has literally gone out of it's way to alienate people who have been their allies in the past and try to put themselves above the rest of the world, so naturally the world has come to view them as a threat.

Simply put, they're a cult.

They keep trying to act like mutants are a different species from humanity, moreover that they're better than humans but logic is flawed given that nothing separates mutants from humans. Also let's talk about the fact that for all their talk of bigotry and persecution they've suffered at the hands of humans Krakoa readily gives asylum and is home to people like Apocalypse, Magneto, Mr. Sinister, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Fabian Cortez, and a whole list of other people who've either tried to commit genocide, been terrorist, and/or are responsible for the extinction of entire planets.

So long as they're mutants Krakoa just takes them in.

That's basically the equivalent of ignoring everything Hilter did during WWII and giving him asylum just because you dont' happen to be Jewish.

why must mutants prove themselves worthy when they are helping the world even now as we see in King in black, they have political trade and a capital law to protect humans, why can't the heroes of the earth work first on the very reason why most of the mutant population willingly and joyfully left the human world for krakoa?

Let's not kid ourselves. The mutants aren't helping out against Knull over any sense of altruism, he's literally just as much a threat to them as he is to the rest of the world. It's simply a matter of self preservation, they'd be jeopardizing their own lives by not getting involved.

And given who's running Krakoa I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few mutants were coaxed into coming to Krakoa. The Quiet Council is clearly doing a lot of shady dealings behind the scenes to make sure things play o

you're basicaly sugesting what many western nations have done to other developing countries, and if it came to pass Mutants would be stupid to remain on the earth when even the shiar empire treats them with more respect.

Krakoa is already looking to expand beyond earth, honestly it's probably the logical step given all the bridges they've burned but even then it's something that the X-Men should have been looking into a long time ago with all the connections they have between the Shi'ar, SWORD, and Starjammers. I would not be surprised if they take a page out of Wakanda's playbook and start trying to colonize a planet soon, hell in the original run of Guardians of the Galaxy that's exactly what they ended up doing after they realized things weren't going to get any better for them on earth.
Truth be told, they really should leave. It's the smart play, rather than trying to force the rest of the world to confirm to their ideals and openly inviting conflict.

[Ferro]

What the mutants tend to forget is that they're not the only ones with problems, the rest of the world has their own crap to deal with to devote the time to a group of people who quite honestly antagonize everyone.

The real problem is that the mutants feel entitled to special treatment and expect the world to conform to them, anyone that doesn't agree with them 100% on everything is an enemy. Krakoa has literally gone out of it's way to alienate people who have been their allies in the past and try to put themselves above the rest of the world, so naturally the world has come to view them as a threat.

Simply put, they're a cult.

They keep trying to act like mutants are a different species from humanity, moreover that they're better than humans but logic is flawed given that nothing separates mutants from humans. Also let's talk about the fact that for all their talk of bigotry and persecution they've suffered at the hands of humans Krakoa readily gives asylum and is home to people like Apocalypse, Magneto, Mr. Sinister, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Fabian Cortez, and a whole list of other people who've either tried to commit genocide, been terrorist, and/or are responsible for the extinction of entire planets.

So long as they're mutants Krakoa just takes them in.

That's basically the equivalent of ignoring everything Hilter did during WWII and giving him asylum just because you dont' happen to be Jewish.




Let's not kid ourselves. The mutants aren't helping out against Knull over any sense of altruism, he's literally just as much a threat to them as he is to the rest of the world. It's simply a matter of self preservation, they'd be jeopardizing their own lives by not getting involved.

And given who's running Krakoa I wouldn't be surprised if more than a few mutants were coaxed into coming to Krakoa. The Quiet Council is clearly doing a lot of shady dealings behind the scenes to make sure things play o



Krakoa is already looking to expand beyond earth, honestly it's probably the logical step given all the bridges they've burned but even then it's something that the X-Men should have been looking into a long time ago with all the connections they have between the Shi'ar, SWORD, and Starjammers. I would not be surprised if they take a page out of Wakanda's playbook and start trying to colonize a planet soon, hell in the original run of Guardians of the Galaxy that's exactly what they ended up doing after they realized things weren't going to get any better for them on earth.
Truth be told, they really should leave. It's the smart play, rather than trying to force the rest of the world to confirm to their ideals and openly inviting conflict.

how are they trying to force others on the earth to comform to mutants? they live in their own place that wasnt stolen or taken from anyone, they are 100 % self-sustainable as they have endless resources on the island.

And yeah everyone has crap to deal with, so why is it when mutants take matters in their own hands using their own resources to provide a better life to their community its a bad thing? and said allies NEVER help, neveeeer, it's so constant that it has been used as a plot point to create a new team book.

And you understand by forcing said villains into a pact they are less of danger towards humans now than before, right?
The raft and whatever gets broken in every two seconds, they aren't prone to deal a killing blow to put an end to said threat, but with krakoa they are under a leash, and sabertooth is evidence the krakoan maw is FAR more effective than human prisons.
Or getting put at the bottom of the ressurection list.


It's not a black or white decision, rulling a nation is all sorts of grey's and that's what makes it a good story for, and EVERY villainous mutant theres a thousand or more civilians who are finally getting a spot in the world that suits their needs and quirks, that allows them to florish.

Another point is that you miss the why mutants are a community now, because of the horrid prosecution forced them to come together for self preservation and understanding, they werent the ones to draw the line permenantly: but the sentinels with 16 million victims in less than hour.

And they have habitats in mars, so there's a possibility there lol.

[Steel Inquisitor]

how are they trying to force others on the earth to comform to mutants? they live in their own place that wasnt stolen or taken from anyone, they are 100 % self-sustainable as they have endless resources on the island.

Magneto laid it all out at the summit, they're going to use soft power to undermine government and business interests all over the world to shape it into how they want. And they just acquiring Avalon as a vassal state, with a mad king as their puppet and have committed an act of war in X-Force against a human nation by turning then into plant people. Get many of these mutants in room with super-heroes who they used to be friends with and they'll alienate them as if they were ORCHIS agent's while openly admitting they only care about mutants. Any criticism of Krkaoa by an outsider they go off. It's alarming. And that's not getting into how closed their society is, North Korea is more open with outsiders then Krakoa.

And yeah everyone has crap to deal with, so why is it when mutants take matters in their own hands using their own resources to provide a better life to their community its a bad thing? and said allies NEVER help, neveeeer, it's so constant that it has been used as a plot point to create a new team book.

It's how they do it, if the Inhumans were doing this people would be them out on it - which has happened in the past. The context for many mutants is that "taking matters into their own hand' isn't protesting its murder and terrorist attacks on a global scale. Including against mutants! Of course their allies help, how long have you been reading X-men? Senator Kelly was imperative to getting SHIELD to shut down Operation: Zero Tolerance, and the Avengers and other heroes helped the X-men against Onslaught. This also omits the barriers to doing more for mutants by editorial and how numerous non X titles mostly gave anti-mutant bigots that's mainly a thing contained in the X line. It's why thew X-men aren't fighting street crime in New York City.

And you understand by forcing said villains into a pact they are less of danger towards humans now than before, right?
The raft and whatever gets broken in every two seconds, they aren't prone to deal a killing blow to put an end to said threat, but with krakoa they are under a leash, and sabertooth is evidence the krakoan maw is FAR more effective than human prisons.
Or getting put at the bottom of the ressurection list.

They have no "leash" on Krkaao, they have no monitoring or policing of these dangerous mutants and give out government leadership positions like candy to monsters who haven't got any remorse over hurting anyone, especially mutants. This is why Apocalypse has been able to get any with so much in Excalibur, the council one what what he was doing and did nothing to stop him after the mess of X of Swords all he got was a voluntarily exile to Arakko - which is not punishment, and a scolding when he was dying by Magneto. Nothing else. Beast hasn't got any punishment for what he's been doing in X-Force, aside from jabs from his team mates. Shaw was being Shaw, and Emma and Kitty are going off book to punish him that's how protected he is by the government despite murdering Kitty. Exodus is allowed to teach kids with no supervision or accountability, in spite of being a dangerous fanatical terrorist who is naturally creating his own cult. Xavier is fine working with cartels and becoming Magneto 2.0. Sinister was allowed to be given his own Suicide Squad with no accountability or supervision, they're incredibly lax about his presence in general. They tried to bring Franklin to Krakoa, as a weapon and had no priority about trying to protect him or warn him about people like Sinister on the island. Who is predictably betraying everyone as we speak, since he's playing the role of Littlefinger in this story.

It's not a black or white decision, rulling a nation is all sorts of grey's and that's what makes it a good story for, and EVERY villainous mutant theres a thousand or more civilians who are finally getting a spot in the world that suits their needs and quirks, that allows them to florish.

Except the decisions they're making aren't grey. Except they have to share it with the monsters, who get more of say in how the governments does things than they do. They don't have democracy there, if they have a problem and the Quiet Council wants the status quo the status quo stays. They don't have any recourse legally and they're in big trouble if they break any laws since calling their justice system a justice system is a joke. The USSR's kangaroo courts have more standing legality then what passes for the courts there.

Another point is that you miss the why mutants are a community now, because of the horrid prosecution forced them to come together for self preservation and understanding, they werent the ones to draw the line permenantly: but the sentinels with 16 million victims in less than hour.

And they have habitats in mars, so there's a possibility there lol.

This omits how numerous mutants in Krkaoa are responsible for horrific crimes of oppression of their own kind, and they're wielding enormous authority in its government. Their victim don't get any say in limiting their authority and are ignored entirely s though they don't remember how their lives have been ruined again and again by these monsters. The mutant community has never, ever been united, and the fact everyone is going along without hardly any conflict is ominous since mutants aren't a hive mind like that and Hickman plans everything.

Sure humanity has persecuted them then and now, but it isn't humans who destroyed Genosha it was Cassandra Nova. Its disturbing how Krkaoa is freely acquiring mutant bodies of the resurrected Genoshans as if they it's their right when they are a separate nation.

We don't know the events which created Krakoa in the gap, that won't be revealed until after Hickman's third act is done and Krakao itself is hardly trustworthy nation or a sentient being to blindly accept when its up to neck in shadiness with is pitch black, not grey.