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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Gwen and Miles probably wouldn't need one since they're the bigger names (even if Gwen doesn't have a book).
    Like tie-ins are about "need to tell this story", most times all they do is tell some story that has nothing to do with a character's comic, or a largely ignorable story, and they certainly tend to give special treatment to bigger names whenever possible, so Miles and Gwen would likely get special treatment.

    Though I guess Spencer is going for equality here, 'cause all not-Peter Spider-People are equally worthless so far.

    I guess how repetitive it is would depend on the story structure and narration,
    Thing is that if all of them talk about some legacy in some way it'd feel repetitive regardless, because it would be 6 different Spiders kissing his ass essentially, which hey, Peter is special and all and having more respect once in a while would be nice, but 6 issues of this? Nah lol.

    I think it'd be better to be natural about this, have the characters' thoughts be about, whatever the hell is in-character for them, 'cause making everyone thinking about him like that, talking about his legacy and whatever? It'd feel forced, specially since all of them would be pretty much be doing it at the same time, which actually would make this "Order of the Web" sound even more like a cult with this hive-mind mentality... So yeah, I think it'd work better if the character talks about it if it's fitting for them to do so, in which case it'd work with Julia, Miles and Anya, and how much they talk about him should be considered with their characters, which basically means Julia would end up praising Peter more than anyone else lol.

    And thinki about this, how incredibly awkward it'd be to come up with something for Jessica of all people to talk much about him, she always seemed like the one who cared the least about Peter, which is not to say she doesn't care, but it always felt like she only respects Peter as another hero and not much else, so yeah, if she were to get a personal tie-in, really shouldn't talk much about Peter.

    but considering the level of effort he's writing them with here, yeah, Spencer probably wouldn't bother. They really feel like something he was forced to include to some extent.
    Not sure he was forced to include since even as far back as ASM#25 there were hints that other Spider-People would be involved in whatever Kindred was planning, it seems that Spencer just didn't think of doing anything with them besides making them into plot devices, which is nothing new for Spencer, remember Quasar in Secret Empire? Lol

  2. #92
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Like tie-ins are about "need to tell this story", most times all they do is tell some story that has nothing to do with a character's comic, or a largely ignorable story, and they certainly tend to give special treatment to bigger names whenever possible, so Miles and Gwen would likely get special treatment.

    Though I guess Spencer is going for equality here, 'cause all not-Peter Spider-People are equally worthless so far.
    I think it depends on the story being told and what the idea behind them is, like spotlighting the other Spider Heroes who haven't had a book or spotlight in the while and what their dynamic in the franchise is/could be.
    Thing is that if all of them talk about some legacy in some way it'd feel repetitive regardless, because it would be 6 different Spiders kissing his ass essentially, which hey, Peter is special and all and having more respect once in a while would be nice, but 6 issues of this? Nah lol.

    I think it'd be better to be natural about this, have the characters' thoughts be about, whatever the hell is in-character for them, 'cause making everyone thinking about him like that, talking about his legacy and whatever? It'd feel forced, specially since all of them would be pretty much be doing it at the same time, which actually would make this "Order of the Web" sound even more like a cult with this hive-mind mentality... So yeah, I think it'd work better if the character talks about it if it's fitting for them to do so, in which case it'd work with Julia, Miles and Anya, and how much they talk about him should be considered with their characters, which basically means Julia would end up praising Peter more than anyone else lol.

    And thinki about this, how incredibly awkward it'd be to come up with something for Jessica of all people to talk much about him, she always seemed like the one who cared the least about Peter, which is not to say she doesn't care, but it always felt like she only respects Peter as another hero and not much else, so yeah, if she were to get a personal tie-in, really shouldn't talk much about Peter.
    I don't think it would be entirely that...like, it would be as much about them, their history, their identity, and what their life is now as much as it is their opinion on Peter and what's going on in the current story, at least as I visualize it, so it would be distinctive from a character perspective.

    And not all of them would probably have the same opinion on Peter (if they even have one at all). Like Silk barely cares about him, but she might begrudgingly admit some respect there. Jessica might try and connect her own opinion about being a Spider to what little she knows about Peter and their lack of a connection.
    Not sure he was forced to include since even as far back as ASM#25 there were hints that other Spider-People would be involved in whatever Kindred was planning, it seems that Spencer just didn't think of doing anything with them besides making them into plot devices, which is nothing new for Spencer, remember Quasar in Secret Empire? Lol
    Yeah, but to me that had "Franchise Mandate" written all over it from the start, since the Kindred stuff is so personal it didn't make sense to involve all these Spider-People, but they're there for branding and marketing reasons more than anything else.

  3. #93
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it depends on the story being told and what the idea behind them is, like spotlighting the other Spider Heroes who haven't had a book or spotlight in the while and what their dynamic in the franchise is/could be.
    That sounds like an effort needed to make an on-going and not some tie-in.

    Then again, that could be a tie-in pretending it's not trying to be an on-going, like Prowler back in Clone Conspiracy.

    I don't think it would be entirely that...like, it would be as much about them, their history, their identity, and what their life is now as much as it is their opinion on Peter and what's going on in the current story, at least as I visualize it, so it would be distinctive from a character perspective.
    That sounds like a lot to balance for one issue, having to essentially introduce a character while moving the story, and showing their thoughts on Peter, all in one issue, and it still has to be done six times in a way that doesn't repeat itself too much... Yeah, Spencer would deserve a prize if he pulled that shit off.

    And not all of them would probably have the same opinion on Peter (if they even have one at all). Like Silk barely cares about him, but she might begrudgingly admit some respect there. Jessica might try and connect her own opinion about being a Spider to what little she knows about Peter and their lack of a connection.
    Well, at least 5 of them have something to say, Miles basically worships the guy, Gwen, uh, they're on friendly enough terms, Julia is kind of a cheerleader, Anya, I don't think they ever went beyond "She's a fan", Cindy, in her on-going she seemed to not be confortable around him in earlier issues but seemed to have less problems, though what she thinks of him as a hero is anyone's guess, Jessica, funnily enough, back when Peter died in The Other, Veranke talked with MJ and she had nothing to talk about Peter, only talked about their connection with the spider shit and that she felt him dying, so yeah, even though that wasn't Jessica, it arguably can be used to explain how they have no connection, and I mention this because without some awkward retcon, there's really nothing between those two, so she'd probably only talk about Peter by saying "I respect the guy" lol.

    Yeah, but to me that had "Franchise Mandate" written all over it from the start, since the Kindred stuff is so personal it didn't make sense to involve all these Spider-People, but they're there for branding and marketing reasons more than anything else.
    Eh, who knows, Kindred has been getting other people involved in this nonsense since the start despite wanting shit to be so personal with Peter, with the most blatant example being Sin Eater of all people, though wouldn't be surprised if it's some weird mandate.

    Also, thinking of it, the Spiders going to Peter's Astral Plane and dealing with shit that really fucked him over during that Unmasked/Black in Black shit, it's so random, why are a bunch of people who weren't involved in it, at all, seeing his past, when Peter himself should be seeing it? While's it's a decent enough reference, it's just that, a reference, that doesn't change anything plot-wise because the characters aren't connected with it, so they have no reason to give a shit, can't believe I didn't notice that before.

  4. #94
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    sin eater is such a real word i can't say here
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it depends on the story being told and what the idea behind them is, like spotlighting the other Spider Heroes who haven't had a book or spotlight in the while and what their dynamic in the franchise is/could be.

    I don't think it would be entirely that...like, it would be as much about them, their history, their identity, and what their life is now as much as it is their opinion on Peter and what's going on in the current story, at least as I visualize it, so it would be distinctive from a character perspective.

    And not all of them would probably have the same opinion on Peter (if they even have one at all). Like Silk barely cares about him, but she might begrudgingly admit some respect there. Jessica might try and connect her own opinion about being a Spider to what little she knows about Peter and their lack of a connection.

    Yeah, but to me that had "Franchise Mandate" written all over it from the start, since the Kindred stuff is so personal it didn't make sense to involve all these Spider-People, but they're there for branding and marketing reasons more than anything else.
    I would agree with “Branding and marketing” purposes. I would add selling books to that list. There is a saying “Too many cooks can spoil the broth.” That is what LR is far too many unnecessary characters unlike HU).

  6. #96
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    That sounds like an effort needed to make an on-going and not some tie-in.

    Then again, that could be a tie-in pretending it's not trying to be an on-going, like Prowler back in Clone Conspiracy.
    That's what I thought they were planning to do with these characters back when it was revealed, either in an ongoing or with an Order of the Web team book.

    Now, not so much...
    That sounds like a lot to balance for one issue, having to essentially introduce a character while moving the story, and showing their thoughts on Peter, all in one issue, and it still has to be done six times in a way that doesn't repeat itself too much... Yeah, Spencer would deserve a prize if he pulled that shit off.
    I don't think it's that far off from what he did with the .HU issues.
    Well, at least 5 of them have something to say, Miles basically worships the guy, Gwen, uh, they're on friendly enough terms, Julia is kind of a cheerleader, Anya, I don't think they ever went beyond "She's a fan", Cindy, in her on-going she seemed to not be confortable around him in earlier issues but seemed to have less problems, though what she thinks of him as a hero is anyone's guess, Jessica, funnily enough, back when Peter died in The Other, Veranke talked with MJ and she had nothing to talk about Peter, only talked about their connection with the spider shit and that she felt him dying, so yeah, even though that wasn't Jessica, it arguably can be used to explain how they have no connection, and I mention this because without some awkward retcon, there's really nothing between those two, so she'd probably only talk about Peter by saying "I respect the guy" lol.
    Peter and Gwen are friendly now unless we're talking about Outlawed.

    Julia seems like she sees him as a means to an end regarding the Web of Life, at least to me.

    Is Anya even a fan?

    Cindy seems to have grown to respect him less and less as they've interacted more.
    Eh, who knows, Kindred has been getting other people involved in this nonsense since the start despite wanting shit to be so personal with Peter, with the most blatant example being Sin Eater of all people, though wouldn't be surprised if it's some weird mandate.

    Also, thinking of it, the Spiders going to Peter's Astral Plane and dealing with shit that really fucked him over during that Unmasked/Black in Black shit, it's so random, why are a bunch of people who weren't involved in it, at all, seeing his past, when Peter himself should be seeing it? While's it's a decent enough reference, it's just that, a reference, that doesn't change anything plot-wise because the characters aren't connected with it, so they have no reason to give a shit, can't believe I didn't notice that before.
    At least Peter has an emotional history with Sin Eater.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I would agree with “Branding and marketing” purposes. I would add selling books to that list. There is a saying “Too many cooks can spoil the broth.” That is what LR is far too many unnecessary characters unlike HU).
    Yeah, Last Remains would benefit more from having less issues, and not only removing the LR issues, but also making the pacing of it in ASM better too.

    In hindsight, this shouldn't be surprising, Hunted also dragged on a lot...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's what I thought they were planning to do with these characters back when it was revealed, either in an ongoing or with an Order of the Web team book.

    Now, not so much...
    Yeah I thought that too, but also considered it was just some tie-in and "Order of the Web" would be forgotten lol.

    Unfortunately, the second guess was right.

    I don't think it's that far off from what he did with the .HU issues.
    HU issues only talked about a character's personal story and did little to advance the event's actual story, the one that did it the most is Vulture's, even then that's to explain what he was up to.

    Talking about a character's personal story, their thoughts, while advancing the story in a way that is interesting, while also maybe showing their thoughts about the same character, all in one issue, while changing who's the protagonist per issue, and trying to not be repetitive, is harder, hell, that was done back during that Avengers: No Surrender event, with very mixed results.

    Peter and Gwen are friendly now unless we're talking about Outlawed.
    What happened in Outlawed?

    Julia seems like she sees him as a means to an end regarding the Web of Life, at least to me.
    Don't think she's that callous about it, 'cause she still admires him for being "the best of us", we had stuff like Spider-Island where she insisted that Peter has to kill the Spider-Queen, but, it's understandable to insist on that since she was growing stronger by the minute lol.

    Is Anya even a fan?
    Back in Araña, she was clearly excited to meet him, then in Spider-Girl, her tweets talk about him like she admires him, don't think she talked about what she thinks of Spidey after those, but I doubt there was anything that contradicts her being a fan.

    Cindy seems to have grown to respect him less and less as they've interacted more.
    What, is she being a bitch whenever they met after her own solo?

    At least Peter has an emotional history with Sin Eater.
    He did, but going out of his way to resurrect someone who's only connected with Peter to be such a big player when Kindred only talks about his relationship with Peter, then it's odd to bring a guy who's not connected with Harry in any way, specially that of all people who died around Peter, there's just no conceivable way that DeWolfe's death can be blamed on him lol.

    Sure there's the whole "Peter's sin" angle, but Carter barely talks about it to Peter, ironically.

  8. #98
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Yeah, Last Remains would benefit more from having less issues, and not only removing the LR issues, but also making the pacing of it in ASM better too.

    In hindsight, this shouldn't be surprising, Hunted also dragged on a lot...



    Yeah I thought that too, but also considered it was just some tie-in and "Order of the Web" would be forgotten lol.

    Unfortunately, the second guess was right.



    HU issues only talked about a character's personal story and did little to advance the event's actual story, the one that did it the most is Vulture's, even then that's to explain what he was up to.

    Talking about a character's personal story, their thoughts, while advancing the story in a way that is interesting, while also maybe showing their thoughts about the same character, all in one issue, while changing who's the protagonist per issue, and trying to not be repetitive, is harder, hell, that was done back during that Avengers: No Surrender event, with very mixed results.



    What happened in Outlawed?



    Don't think she's that callous about it, 'cause she still admires him for being "the best of us", we had stuff like Spider-Island where she insisted that Peter has to kill the Spider-Queen, but, it's understandable to insist on that since she was growing stronger by the minute lol.



    Back in Araña, she was clearly excited to meet him, then in Spider-Girl, her tweets talk about him like she admires him, don't think she talked about what she thinks of Spidey after those, but I doubt there was anything that contradicts her being a fan.



    What, is she being a bitch whenever they met after her own solo?



    He did, but going out of his way to resurrect someone who's only connected with Peter to be such a big player when Kindred only talks about his relationship with Peter, then it's odd to bring a guy who's not connected with Harry in any way, specially that of all people who died around Peter, there's just no conceivable way that DeWolfe's death can be blamed on him lol.

    Sure there's the whole "Peter's sin" angle, but Carter barely talks about it to Peter, ironically.
    Cindy isnt a bitch to him probably less hype about him though. Like now that she knows the guy instead or the guy in the videos she was sent for those 14 years perceptions changed. Plus that whole attraction thing was a thing not anymore
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  9. #99
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    What happened in Outlawed?
    Peter told her about Kamala's Law and she basically took out her frustration on him.
    Back in Araña, she was clearly excited to meet him, then in Spider-Girl, her tweets talk about him like she admires him, don't think she talked about what she thinks of Spidey after those, but I doubt there was anything that contradicts her being a fan.
    That makes it weird she was so gung-ho about beating him up at the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Cindy isnt a bitch to him probably less hype about him though. Like now that she knows the guy instead or the guy in the videos she was sent for those 14 years perceptions changed. Plus that whole attraction thing was a thing not anymore
    She definitely doesn't seem to respect him that much or listen to what he has to say.

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Cindy isnt a bitch to him probably less hype about him though. Like now that she knows the guy instead or the guy in the videos she was sent for those 14 years perceptions changed. Plus that whole attraction thing was a thing not anymore
    Kind of a big change for her to go from being a fan to being pretty callous to him all of a sudden.

    Of course, there can be justifications, like "Never meet your idols" situation, or realizing how fucked up the whole pheronomone shit was and trying to stay away because it was gross, or whatever, but they don't really say it, so she suddenly was being callous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Peter told her about Kamala's Law and she basically took out her frustration on him.
    ... What the fuck is Kamala doing?

    That makes it weird she was so gung-ho about beating him up at the start.
    Hey, being a fan doesn't exactly means agreeing with whatever he's gonna do, specially since that meant having a way to stop Norman from killing again.

    Then again, she said "I think she (Jessica) means we should've beaten him up", which can mean misreading what she meant, or guessing correctly what she meant lol.

  11. #101
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Kind of a big change for her to go from being a fan to being pretty callous to him all of a sudden.

    Of course, there can be justifications, like "Never meet your idols" situation, or realizing how fucked up the whole pheronomone shit was and trying to stay away because it was gross, or whatever, but they don't really say it, so she suddenly was being callous.



    ... What the fuck is Kamala doing?



    Hey, being a fan doesn't exactly means agreeing with whatever he's gonna do, specially since that meant having a way to stop Norman from killing again.

    Then again, she said "I think she (Jessica) means we should've beaten him up", which can mean misreading what she meant, or guessing correctly what she meant lol.
    See the Outlawed one-shot and the Champions series, both by Eve Ewing, for more details, but the short version is that Kamala was injured and ended up in a coma while in civilian guise as a result of a fight between the Champions and a dragon captured and enslaved by Roxxon, so politicians used the public outrage over that to push a law --- that they named after her, no less --- banning anyone under the age of 21 from engaging in costumed vigilantism. As Gwen/Ghost-Spider is at most 20 years old, that law would apply to her, too, and the argument she got into with Peter in her last solo was whether or not that law was a good idea or not. Peter's answer was ambivalent, but a strong enough "maybe" that she reacted . . . not well, to say the least.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    See the Outlawed one-shot and the Champions series, both by Eve Ewing, for more details, but the short version is that Kamala was injured and ended up in a coma while in civilian guise as a result of a fight between the Champions and a dragon captured and enslaved by Roxxon, so politicians used the public outrage over that to push a law --- that they named after her, no less --- banning anyone under the age of 21 from engaging in costumed vigilantism. As Gwen/Ghost-Spider is at most 20 years old, that law would apply to her, too, and the argument she got into with Peter in her last solo was whether or not that law was a good idea or not. Peter's answer was ambivalent, but a strong enough "maybe" that she reacted . . . not well, to say the least.
    Did she try to punch him or did she just scream at him?

    Also, i finally read the issue, Sin-Eater vs Morlun was the best part, but.so far the Order of the Web still seems to be looking for a point and failing at it.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Did she try to punch him or did she just scream at him?

    Also, i finally read the issue, Sin-Eater vs Morlun was the best part, but.so far the Order of the Web still seems to be looking for a point and failing at it.
    No punching, thankfully. And yeah, I'm waiting to see how all this comes together and whether the Order of the Web actually contributes anything. I mean, I love all those Spider-characters and I'm glad the ones that don't currently have titles aren't just drifting away into comic book limbo, though I agree there does have to be some payoff, sooner or later.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #104
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Kind of a big change for her to go from being a fan to being pretty callous to him all of a sudden.

    Of course, there can be justifications, like "Never meet your idols" situation, or realizing how fucked up the whole pheronomone shit was and trying to stay away because it was gross, or whatever, but they don't really say it, so she suddenly was being callous.
    I think I remember her threatening to use the pheromones' to get Peter to leave New York to her or something problematic in the first issue of Spider-Verse.

  15. #105
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think I remember her threatening to use the pheromones' to get Peter to leave New York to her or something problematic in the first issue of Spider-Verse.
    Speaking of that creepy side effect i still remember this:

    "Spider, spiders everywhere"
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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