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  1. #151
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    In the epilogue about the swords it did allude to the possibility that Gorgon might be resurrected even though he died in Outworld. That would be interesting to see just what new version might come back if they do indeed resurrect their fallen comrade.

  2. #152
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    The Quiet Council wants to phase out the use of the term 'X-Men' because it engenders divisions in the Krakoan society? Sounds like it's time for Scott, Jean, Logan, and Ororo to have... a schism!
    #bringbackuncanny
    Attachment 102615
    Ohhh I would love this!

  3. #153
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    After the previous issues felt weird tonally, I didn't think they could stick a satisfying conclusion with only three issues left.

    But ultimately it was a satisfying ending. Apocalypse beating the Annihilation mask not by trying to control it/dominate it, as Genesis said she failed to do, but instead choosing to surrender is a trope, but one that works.

    What worked for me:
    - Jean Grey announcing 'To Me My X-men' was pretty cool.
    - Thought it was funny that Gwenpool was part of the X-men army.
    - The elevation of Illyana's stature is pretty great - she really shined in this event, showcasing her powerset, personality, and commitment to her friends like Doug.
    - Apocalypse attacking Doug for talking about wives was funny - really, going into the event readers were commenting how ill-equipped Doug is, and this event has definitely leaned into that.
    - Cyclops showing off his confidence and leadership ability. The one panel where both Jean Grey and Emma Frost are reflected in his visor is good framing.

    What didn't work for me:
    - Saturnyne is shown before and after this event as being all powerful, able to easily convert the Annihilation mask. So the threats to her kingdom are ultimately meaningless.
    - Isca's purpose in this even was ultimately symbolic - to have the changing colors moment.
    - White Sword's choice - I know he wouldn't choose to fight for the Horseman's side, but wouldn't he still fight the Amenthians?
    - Brian's long flowing golden hair at the end - it was medium length to short, and now its long?!....ah who am I kidding, like Saturnyne, all who look at Brian are mesmerized by him.

    Ultimately, I don't mind the build up for the swords only to have them not mean much. Like any comic book story involving macguffins, they are ultimately meaningless. Nightcrawler's comment about being left out even though he has a sword seemed to me to be a wink of acknowledgement. There was a brief payoff to the Hordeculture issues, and some lampshading to explain away questions about telepathy and Otherworld.

    To me, the event had a strong first half, an odd tournament portion, and then a satisfying conclusion. It organically sets up several new story threads - SWORD, quiet council politics, betsy, storm's relation to Wakanda, etc.

  4. #154
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Apocalypse has spent his entire life becoming stronger so he would be fit when he returned to his wife. He wasn't in a neutral state for all this time he was actively trying to be the strongest and most fit being on earth. Him preparing all these years paid off clearly.

    Jean led a huge team of mutants into battle and basically saved the day so I'd say that matters a bit.

    Solem is going to appear in Wolverine so a little patience is all that is needed on him, as for the other Arraki I hope we see more but they could've used more development especially how long the event was. Still I really love the designs and what we've seen so far.

    Gorgon has been an insanely strong character every time we've seen him, no reason to expect less from him or not care.

    I don't really agree with your over simplification of the result of the event declaring nothing of significance has changed, Apocalypse is gone, Arrako with all its insane people is merging with Krakoa on earth, there is potential division between the QC and Captain Commander as well as the QC being down a few major players and there is a new Captain Britain Corps All of that seems fairly significant to me.
    Well said. There’s a lot that came out of this. Most importantly... how will humanity (and ORCHIS) deal with millions of mutants suddenly popping up on Earth? Not well I’d imagine.

    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    To me, the event had a strong first half, an odd tournament portion, and then a satisfying conclusion. It organically sets up several new story threads - SWORD, quiet council politics, betsy, storm's relation to Wakanda, etc.
    Agreed. My sentiments exactly. Also looking forward to more Solem vs Logan.

  5. #155
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    They should add Isca to Apocalypse's seat, and Beast to Jean's seat. If only to add more moral complexity to the QC decisions. Also, replace Gorgon with White Sword.

    Honestly, we need a book about the QC so we can get more of the politics and foreign policy/relations side of this who Krakoa thing. Especially now that it just got 2x bigger.

    Also can he X-Men function on the island? In X-Men #15, Cyclops straight up worked against the wishes of Krakoa (the island itself and the QC). Will this be something that causes actual friction, with ramifications? Like, if Isca is put on the QC, and she says something must be done for victory, and the QC agrees, what happens if the X-Men disapprove and disagree?
    You want Beast to have MORE power?!? That's a no for me.

  6. #156
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Yeah, its still a terrible event in my book. Tonally all over the place, with many of the plotlines only given a barest amount of attention. Several points the data pages had to prop up the story, and its still unclear what the stakes of it even were. There was never any tangible threat and a major lack of consequences. Saturnyne was suddenly the villain, and was all-powerful until she suddenly messed up a spell. Apocalypses' family drama felt like a ridiculous retcon to try to give a cartoonish villain depth, and instead just made him look pathetic. Ending with Jean and Cyclops just charging in despite playing almost no part in any of the event just solidified how badly put together everything was. And the fact that, again, nobody important actually died despite the narrative jumping through hoops to try to make the danger credible just makes the stakes more laughable. That includes nobody in Jean's army getting hurt too.

    Maybe 1 or 2 of the Arrako mutants will matter, and instead it will just be an excuse to fill crowd scenes with even weirder looking people. Just a colossal waste of time.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Yeah, its still a terrible event in my book. Tonally all over the place, with many of the plotlines only given a barest amount of attention. Several points the data pages had to prop up the story, and its still unclear what the stakes of it even were. There was never any tangible threat and a major lack of consequences. Saturnyne was suddenly the villain, and was all-powerful until she suddenly messed up a spell. Apocalypses' family drama felt like a ridiculous retcon to try to give a cartoonish villain depth, and instead just made him look pathetic. Ending with Jean and Cyclops just charging in despite playing almost no part in any of the event just solidified how badly put together everything was. And the fact that, again, nobody important actually died despite the narrative jumping through hoops to try to make the danger credible just makes the stakes more laughable. That includes nobody in Jean's army getting hurt too.

    Maybe 1 or 2 of the Arrako mutants will matter, and instead it will just be an excuse to fill crowd scenes with even weirder looking people. Just a colossal waste of time.
    The army made no difference as Apocalypse contolling the helm gave the victory to Krakoa. I don't get how it wasn't a infraction on the game

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    Apocalypse has spent his entire life becoming stronger so he would be fit when he returned to his wife. He wasn't in a neutral state for all this time he was actively trying to be the strongest and most fit being on earth. Him preparing all these years paid off clearly.

    Jean led a huge team of mutants into battle and basically saved the day so I'd say that matters a bit.

    Solem is going to appear in Wolverine so a little patience is all that is needed on him, as for the other Arraki I hope we see more but they could've used more development especially how long the event was. Still I really love the designs and what we've seen so far.

    Gorgon has been an insanely strong character every time we've seen him, no reason to expect less from him or not care.

    I don't really agree with your over simplification of the result of the event declaring nothing of significance has changed, Apocalypse is gone, Arrako with all its insane people is merging with Krakoa on earth, there is potential division between the QC and Captain Commander as well as the QC being down a few major players and there is a new Captain Britain Corps All of that seems fairly significant to me.
    1) As has his family, yet only Apocalypse is allowed to get stronger?

    2) Okay, now prior to Destruction, what has Jean done?

    3) Fair enough. I hope they do they do something that gets them very involved in the relevant ongoing plots.

    4) Gorgon is strong. I'm talking story significance tho, something he never had in Dawn of X.

    5) Apocalypse being gone is interesting in that it sets up his eventual return to villainy, which will eventually force the X-Men to work for humanity and the QC and Krakoa will hit a crossroads. Arrako will only become interesting if their high ranking members, like Isca and White Sword take places on the QC and as a captain respectfully. They need to be properly represented and ACTUALLY DEVELOPED.

    Anything with Tini is irrelevant, imo, tho yeah...I guess a new CB Corps is kinda important. I guess.
    Last edited by TooFlyToFail; 11-25-2020 at 05:08 PM.

  9. #159
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    You want Beast to have MORE power?!? That's a no for me.
    Why not? It makes things more interesting on the Summer side, and he's an OG/O5. It would make perfect sense. While Xavier and Erik are proud of Cyke and Jean, they can't afford to have more of that happening. Beast's loyalty is to Krakoa, and his time on the Illuminati means that he's willing to make any hard choices they need to be done.

    Then, there's Isca, who can't lose which translates to her affiliation. With her on the council, they'll know which actions to take.

    Like what if the X-Men wanted to get involved in something that would cause Krakoa issues, if they lost, and Isca said they'd lose....and they did? That could cause major story implications and create huge moral friction.

  10. #160
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    The big issue of this event is that it's a tournament arc... let down by the actual tournament in the arc. If you could somehow magic away chapters 13 through 19, this event would be a lot better. Cause issues 1 through 12 are building up to a very emotional and harrowing battle and issues 20 - 22 are paying off that harrowing battle, but the actual battle itself is Mario Party.

    Now I'm not going to sit here and say the build up was perfect, I found the wakanda conflict super contrived (if well written) and the excalibur issue with the starlight sword baffling and nonsensical, but for the most part i felt those issues helped set a very strong tone of what was expected and what was to come. Likewise, i feel that these final 3 issues are a pretty solid, if expected, capstone of the event and what we know. They take the story beats and wrap them up in ways that feel satisfactory.

    The problem is, when you account for the chapters that the first set was building towards and the conclusion was paying off.

    Storm sacrifices diplomatic relations with Wakanda... for a sword that's a foot note in a battle where she has none of her powers that the sword benefits from?
    Doug comes face to face with his mortality... to be married off to a Blackbolt expy who has had maybe a quarter of a issue worth of pages dedicated to her?
    Rockslide is murdered, and his body painstakingly sculpted into a monument by polaris... for his murderer to be utterly tossed aside as a foot note in a random voiceless bout with Wolverine?
    Betsy putting her name and title on the line to prove she's not just some bootleg captain Britain... to get murdered in zero seconds flat in the first fight.
    Apocalypse' kids are so cool, and awesome, and way better than any other horsemen since them... for them to be one note nothings with personalities so banal a wet blanket is more interesting than ALL OF THEM.


    Then you got the finale that relies on you thinking that the X-men are in such a harrowing position... except:

    The tournament is a farce
    None of the Arrakii champions outside of White Sword warrants their hype.
    Captain Britain is whoops all betsy cause apparently Saturnyne messed up, rather than Betsy managing to actually screw Saturnyne as her last act.

    Add that the big emotional beats besides scott and jean (which I actually think is well done.) is Apocalypse' love for his family (Eff his family) and Doug and Bei's love for each other (Have they even known each other for more than a day?)

  11. #161
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Why not? It makes things more interesting on the Summer side, and he's an OG/O5. It would make perfect sense. While Xavier and Erik are proud of Cyke and Jean, they can't afford to have more of that happening. Beast's loyalty is to Krakoa, and his time on the Illuminati means that he's willing to make any hard choices they need to be done.

    Then, there's Isca, who can't lose which translates to her affiliation. With her on the council, they'll know which actions to take.

    Like what if the X-Men wanted to get involved in something that would cause Krakoa issues, if they lost, and Isca said they'd lose....and they did? That could cause major story implications and create huge moral friction.
    So you missed him committing genocide in X-Force and going on a xenophobic witch hunt afterwards...

  12. #162
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    I'm honestly glad the event is over but I did enjoy how Hickman has written certain characters. he definitely made cyclops, Jean, and cable way more likeable for me. the two if them working together to save cable and the other krakoans was very nice.

    I like apocalypse has a happy ending. he has been so one dimensional for such a long time and Hickman gave him depth I never knew he could have.

    the event didn't need to be this long and I wish the battles were actually battles instead of what we got but I think the books being released as frequently as they were made up for it


    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    The big issue of this event is that it's a tournament arc... let down by the actual tournament in the arc. If you could somehow magic away chapters 13 through 19, this event would be a lot better. Cause issues 1 through 12 are building up to a very emotional and harrowing battle and issues 20 - 22 are paying off that harrowing battle, but the actual battle itself is Mario Party.

    Now I'm not going to sit here and say the build up was perfect, I found the wakanda conflict super contrived (if well written) and the excalibur issue with the starlight sword baffling and nonsensical, but for the most part i felt those issues helped set a very strong tone of what was expected and what was to come. Likewise, i feel that these final 3 issues are a pretty solid, if expected, capstone of the event and what we know. They take the story beats and wrap them up in ways that feel satisfactory.

    The problem is, when you account for the chapters that the first set was building towards and the conclusion was paying off.

    Storm sacrifices diplomatic relations with Wakanda... for a sword that's a foot note in a battle where she has none of her powers that the sword benefits from?
    Doug comes face to face with his mortality... to be married off to a Blackbolt expy who has had maybe a quarter of a issue worth of pages dedicated to her?
    Rockslide is murdered, and his body painstakingly sculpted into a monument by polaris... for his murderer to be utterly tossed aside as a foot note in a random voiceless bout with Wolverine?
    Betsy putting her name and title on the line to prove she's not just some bootleg captain Britain... to get murdered in zero seconds flat in the first fight.
    Apocalypse' kids are so cool, and awesome, and way better than any other horsemen since them... for them to be one note nothings with personalities so banal a wet blanket is more interesting than ALL OF THEM.


    Then you got the finale that relies on you thinking that the X-men are in such a harrowing position... except:

    The tournament is a farce
    None of the Arrakii champions outside of White Sword warrants their hype.
    Captain Britain is whoops all betsy cause apparently Saturnyne messed up, rather than Betsy managing to actually screw Saturnyne as her last act.

    Add that the big emotional beats besides scott and jean (which I actually think is well done.) is Apocalypse' love for his family (Eff his family) and Doug and Bei's love for each other (Have they even known each other for more than a day?)
    the skybreaker was one of the silly aspects of this story that was solely written to make conflict where there was none and decouple her from wakanda. everything about was inconsequential to her part and could have been replaced with any other durable weapon and we would have gotten the same effect.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #163
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    With the exception of not getting her man it is as i always felt in regards to this event, Opal was the ultimate winner of it all.

    What the X-men really gained from this? The Council is shattered, relations with Wakanda will not exactly be positive i feel, they got SWORD base but really i see that is just another set of problems in the long run, they lost who knows how many mutants in this, Betsy is missing, really i can't say they won in the long run.

    Honestly i felt this event didn't really live up to the hype.

    P.S we didn't get the Captain Britain Corp back, we got the Braddock Corp which just feels like a rip off of the Thor Corp from SW.

  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Apocalypse used his jobbing power to win. Bravo! I didn’t think they could land the ending but they managed to pull it off. My excitement for the X-Line is restored and I can’t wait to see what comes next.

    Also lmao at Saturnyne still bitter that she can’t get laid.

  15. #165
    Spectacular Member Bozack's Avatar
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    This event went from stellar, to goofy, to a solid conclusion. Eager to see what happens next.

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