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  1. #271
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopsJuice91 View Post
    Why is Gwenpool on Krakoa? I don’t follow her book...
    It was revealed in her mini that she's a mutant and then she traveled through a Krakoan gate where she was welcomed by Wolvie

    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    Who was she holding. And did her colors invert??
    Explody Boy

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Explodey_Boy_(Earth-616)

  2. #272
    Hey slacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chessboxer View Post
    You hit the nail on the head about Asrar that I couldn't articulate. Yes! He an actual blend of Larraz and Yu, great observation. He can say so much with so little, and the fights were beautifully illustrated.

    That solo panel with Emma in the QC meeting? Lord have mercy, that gave me Basic Instinct vibes
    I just want more VIolet Swan. And as much as I loved Pepe's Shogo, Asrar made Shogo look like a baby dragon, not a young dragon, but baby. <3
    Last edited by slacker; 11-26-2020 at 11:45 PM.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    also correct me if i'm wrong but saturyne was more powerful by the end of the story than she was at the beginning. The fish looking lady flat out said Saturyne did all of this so that her own sword could be rebuilt meaning she may have been powerful but she was definitely in a weaker state before getting to the point where the corps was brought back.
    I think a lot of people just glossed over this but they explained it in this issue why she's displayed this much power only now as well as why she didn't do more/make everything go the way she wanted: the prophecy cards. it boosted her powers but seems she was also limited somewhat to what cards would appear, and from there it seemed she could interpret the cards in one way or another to be close to what result she wants but still not necessarily get what she does want.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
    I think a lot of people just glossed over this but they explained it in this issue why she's displayed this much power only now as well as why she didn't do more/make everything go the way she wanted: the prophecy cards. it boosted her powers but seems she was also limited somewhat to what cards would appear, and from there it seemed she could interpret the cards in one way or another to be close to what result she wants but still not necessarily get what she does want.
    Wouldn’t the male versions of Betsy in the new corps be Brian’s? They are twins aren’t they? So if the only difference is there gender the new male alts should be Brian’s. Can’t she have sex with them and leave the one married to her friend alone?

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Wouldn’t the male versions of Betsy in the new corps be Brian’s? They are twins aren’t they? So if the only difference is there gender the new male alts should be Brian’s. Can’t she have sex with them and leave the one married to her friend alone?
    This is a stupid question. Saturnyne doesn't care about Brians, she cares about Brian(616)

  6. #276
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Do you really think Broo would do anything like unleashing them onto someone? I mean they sort of could have used them against the Cotati, and they could use them against Knull and whatever he brings or maybe whatever number of Sentinels are present on Venus or wherever they are but outside of that would they really see any action against a sapient species?

    Or maybe that is the point then, humanity sees this and someone looks at this and says they have got WAY too much fire power at their disposal while Humanity really has what? and the fact that the council looks quite uneven with the bad outnumbering the good and since we know the bad ones are plotting behind the scenes well i wouldn't exactly say humanity shouldn't be worried or wouldn't be provoked if say Sinister thinks it would be funny to cause a war just for laughs or maybe Mystique decides to do something so Krakoa burns as Destiny told her it should.

    Or just maybe in the end we got two vast armies and they do nothing with them at all like with the Brood who haven't done anything outside of that event with Broo.
    I'm not unconvinced that the Brood King Egg won't corrupt Broo in some way.

  7. #277
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    There are black people that voted for Trump.
    Your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    being "black" doesn't make them good people, we saw they are bad news
    Doesn’t make them analogs for nazis either. Don’t need the sarcastic quotes either.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    This is a stupid question. Saturnyne doesn't care about Brians, she cares about Brian(616)
    If he Brian is close enough to the 616 version, why not? multiverse is infinite

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    If he Brian is close enough to the 616 version, why not? multiverse is infinite
    infinite is not necessarily infinite. I know that sounds weird. But to be more specific, there may be an infinite number of worlds, but that doesn't mean there's an infinite number of brians in those infinite worlds.

  10. #280
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Your point?
    That you can't say that calling a black person a Trumpist is wrong.

  11. #281
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    I'm not letting the undeniably pretty art fool me. This event started off cool and even though the conclusion was better than the horrendous middle, it was just decent.

    I will say that I like how Hickman writes Scott, Xavier and Magneto. Especially Scott honestly. I always enjoy reading him under Hickman's pen. I also like what he did with Apocalypse. Yes the world-building was cool as always with Hickman. But Apocalypse's children were all incredibly one-note, even though some of them like White Sword and Death were intriguing on the surface. They don't get any character development whatsoever, nor are their unique relationships with Apocalypse really fleshed out. None of the Krakoa mutants really interacted with each other in a way that would have further developed their relationships or could have made the stakes feel more tangible. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the actual contest was just a overly silly game that Saturnyne manipulates in whatever way she wants. We can talk about how an actual serious sword fight tournament would have been more generic or predictable, but I feel like that approach would have actually married the set up and conclusion of this event a lot better if it was written well. A part of me just thinks the entire middle was just Hickman and co deliberately subverting expectations without much thought as to why, just so nobody would say it was predictable. The problem is, by doing so they took away all the stakes this event presented to have.

    As for these last three issues, we have the final fight between Apocalypse vs Genesis which takes the background to the political discourse of the Quiet Council. I think that's a great microcosm of this event. As I said I like how Hickman writes certain characters so I actually found the Quiet Council scenes very interesting. It just isn't great that the rest of the mutants come to the rescue out of nowhere in this way. The Apocalypse vs Genesis fight is supposed to be emotional (I think?) but because there isn't enough time building up the actual tournament as an emotional affair it all just falls flat for me. The fight itself isn't. These swords aren't treated as special in anyway whatsoever. All they do is just break another sword and stab. Individual mutant powers don't seem to matter in any way at all. Apocalypse wins initially with a simple disarm? Not to mention that the fight takes place inside an arena in the citadel, only for the next issue to suddenly be a huge battle outside the citadel everyone is taking place in, including Apocalypse and Genesis/Annihilation? How did that happen? There's no build up to that at all. And as hard as these writers are trying to make Cypher and Bei's romance look cute, it's still underwritten and came out of nowhere. I'll only accept it if they're both under some kind of love spell.

    The conclusion is definitely good enough to end things well, but I just can't shake the feeling that this event was all that well thought out beyond the concept stage of "Mutant sword fight tournament arc".

    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    Betsy is a key factor in turning the tide... Unceremoniously dies and we're given no indication that her death is going to lead to a spell creating a new Captain Britain Corps. A core emotional beat of the finale is Doug and Bei's romance. A romance that kinda pops up out of nowhere and is given no time to develop. The other emotional story beat is Apocalypse and his family... his family that sucks and are utterly 1 dimensional characters with not an interesting scene between the lot of them. The thing that sparks Scott and jean to act is Cable's sense of utter helplessness and hopelessness... which kinda rings hollow following the actual events of the tournament.
    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Why could Apocalypse control the Helm of Annihilation? How was he able to fight Genesis....at all, let alone beat her twice? It's sad how even good comic book artists can't communicate the nuances of a fight. Not everyone can be Samnee or Shavley or Harren or Opeńa. Also....it seems like one could skip this event, not not really miss much of significance. Unless someone considers anything in Hellion or Excalibur as significant. I bust out laughing when Doug started talking to Apocalypse about marriage and telling other people that they don't understand Bei like he does. What mediocre waste of time. Can things please built up and properly paid off? You know, like an actual story?
    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Yeah, its still a terrible event in my book. Tonally all over the place, with many of the plotlines only given a barest amount of attention. Several points the data pages had to prop up the story, and its still unclear what the stakes of it even were. There was never any tangible threat and a major lack of consequences. Saturnyne was suddenly the villain, and was all-powerful until she suddenly messed up a spell. Apocalypses' family drama felt like a ridiculous retcon to try to give a cartoonish villain depth, and instead just made him look pathetic. Ending with Jean and Cyclops just charging in despite playing almost no part in any of the event just solidified how badly put together everything was. And the fact that, again, nobody important actually died despite the narrative jumping through hoops to try to make the danger credible just makes the stakes more laughable. That includes nobody in Jean's army getting hurt too.

    Maybe 1 or 2 of the Arrako mutants will matter, and instead it will just be an excuse to fill crowd scenes with even weirder looking people. Just a colossal waste of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    The big issue of this event is that it's a tournament arc... let down by the actual tournament in the arc. If you could somehow magic away chapters 13 through 19, this event would be a lot better. Cause issues 1 through 12 are building up to a very emotional and harrowing battle and issues 20 - 22 are paying off that harrowing battle, but the actual battle itself is Mario Party. Now I'm not going to sit here and say the build up was perfect, I found the wakanda conflict super contrived (if well written) and the excalibur issue with the starlight sword baffling and nonsensical, but for the most part i felt those issues helped set a very strong tone of what was expected and what was to come. Likewise, i feel that these final 3 issues are a pretty solid, if expected, capstone of the event and what we know. They take the story beats and wrap them up in ways that feel satisfactory.

    The problem is, when you account for the chapters that the first set was building towards and the conclusion was paying off. Storm sacrifices diplomatic relations with Wakanda... for a sword that's a foot note in a battle where she has none of her powers that the sword benefits from? Doug comes face to face with his mortality... to be married off to a Blackbolt expy who has had maybe a quarter of a issue worth of pages dedicated to her? Rockslide is murdered, and his body painstakingly sculpted into a monument by polaris... for his murderer to be utterly tossed aside as a foot note in a random voiceless bout with Wolverine? Betsy putting her name and title on the line to prove she's not just some bootleg captain Britain... to get murdered in zero seconds flat in the first fight. Apocalypse' kids are so cool, and awesome, and way better than any other horsemen since them... for them to be one note nothings with personalities so banal a wet blanket is more interesting than ALL OF THEM.

    Then you got the finale that relies on you thinking that the X-men are in such a harrowing position... except:
    The tournament is a farce, none of the Arrakii champions outside of White Sword warrants their hype, Captain Britain is whoops all betsy cause apparently Saturnyne messed up, rather than Betsy managing to actually screw Saturnyne as her last act. Add that the big emotional beats besides scott and jean (which I actually think is well done.) is Apocalypse' love for his family (Eff his family) and Doug and Bei's love for each other (Have they even known each other for more than a day?)
    Agree with all of these.

    Sorry I had to edit your posts. Just didn't want it to look like a wall of text.

  12. #282
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Yeah, X-Men #15 and Destruction were great reads, on their own, but don't help fix the rest of the inconsistencies. The swords and tournament shouldn't have been the focus, but rather the development and interaction with these characters. I'd love to have seen a flashback to the OG Horsemen as children, and hear how they truly feel about their fates. War had a husband, so we know she's got wants that are separate from that of Annihilation. Death is clearly a curious and thoughtful soul. Show us why we should care about the Arrakii side, beyond Apocalypse caring so we should.

    Cypher not understanding Bei, despite understanding everything prior, should be a bigger deal. Why Bei would put her life on the line for a stranger needs to be explored. Could it be emotional longing to be understood that makes Doug fascinating, because he can't understand her? Give us something.

    Gorgon vs White Sword should've had a similar feel to this:

    They should've pressed into us the magnitude of a man, who's fought everyday of his life for several millenia, yet has never been defeated. In fact, besides Genesis, Apocalypse, maybe Storm and maybe Wolverine, WS could likely easily wear the Helm of Annihilation. This should've had that Vagabond, Blade of the Immortal, Berserk or Shigurui feel!
    Last edited by TooFlyToFail; 11-27-2020 at 05:45 PM.

  13. #283
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Or this:

    Having WS break down and criticize all the flaws and disappointment in Gorgon's style, as he casually rips through his defenses.

    If any fight should've been given respect, it was this fight, since both characters meant nothing to each other and both lived only to fight on the battlefield at this point.

  14. #284
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I'm not unconvinced that the Brood King Egg won't corrupt Broo in some way.
    That is possible, i mean i am expecting a lot of bad things to happen when we begin to approach the end.

  15. #285
    of House Bolton Ramsay Snow's Avatar
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    The event was alright, overall. It had its good and bad spots.........It was certainly cool having Hickman bring back the Captain Britain Corps.

    My only complaint is Hauptmann Englande not being in the list of Captain Britain Corps members.........How could the good Hauptmann and his wonderful version of Excalibur be left out?!?!?!?

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