After the Dawn, comes "Reign of X"

[nandes]

Well of course if you are trying to ressurect someone then sure the first thing you need to do is actually confirm that the person is dead. That's just... logical for any sort of ressurection, not just the Krakoa ressurection protocols. What if someone tried to bring back the X-Men back to life when they were faking their deaths during the Outback era? We didn't see that because we, the readers, knew they weren't actually dead, but now that the mutants are on charge of their own ressurection it's obvious they need to face these questions.

[Rev9]

Well of course if you are trying to ressurect someone then sure the first thing you need to do is actually confirm that the person is dead. That's just... logical for any sort of ressurection, not just the Krakoa ressurection protocols. What if someone tried to bring back the X-Men back to life when they were faking their deaths during the Outback era? We didn't see that because we, the readers, knew they weren't actually dead, but now that the mutants are on charge of their own ressurection it's obvious they need to face these questions.

My argument is if they were doing soul transfers to resurrect ,that particular caveat is not worth mentioning because unless a 'soul' is released by death ,resurrection of another body would be impossible or to do it you would have to kill the first body housing said soul to resurrect a new one with transferred soul.The mere fact that they word their caveat the way they do means they don't need a soul for what they are doing.They just don't want to 1.Unduly waste time and resources 2.Deal with the ramifications of multiple clones of the same mutant running around. To explain it differently let us go with the 'digital copy of memories' in Cerebros data network as being the 'soul' , the mere fact that one is updated and always lags behind the prime subjects memories means they are not one and the same , to suggest two souls exist for one identity at any one time may be cool sci fi concept but it still masks cloning pure and simple.What they do is still cloning whether physical or mental

[baxer]

Why are we STILL talking about IF they are copies when one book's premise is about manually preventing copies and one of the central components of mutantdom is getting a computer to constantly copy your memories. C'mon guys.

Pretty much this. they have no memory of the moment of the death. I know Xavier says that he will edit so the person wont remember it to not cause trauma but very often the back up is days before the death. If there ws soul involved they would remember everything, even the days without backup.

Xavier didnt saw the reason of Kitty or the Hellions death because the back up was made before and there isn't ay soul involved

[loke13]

Why is this still being debated? It's already been confirmed that the Resurrection system isn't just some hard science clone body situation that there's a mystical / Soul element to the Resurrection process. If there wasn't them dying in other world or Amenth wouldn't have mattered diddly-squat because they already had the genetic material and backup files back on Earth.

[Jackraow21]

Why is this still being debated? It's already been confirmed that the Resurrection system isn't just some hard science clone body situation that there's a mystical / Soul element to the Resurrection process. If there wasn't them dying in other world or Amenth wouldn't have mattered diddly-squat because they already had the genetic material and backup files back on Earth.

Bingo. Nailed it.

[baxer]

Why is this still being debated? It's already been confirmed that the Resurrection system isn't just some hard science clone body situation that there's a mystical / Soul element to the Resurrection process. If there wasn't them dying in other world or Amenth wouldn't have mattered diddly-squat because they already had the genetic material and backup files back on Earth.

Saw no confirmation, there is serious questions about the ressurrection system

My argument is if they were doing soul transfers to resurrect ,that particular caveat is not worth mentioning because unless a 'soul' is released by death ,resurrection of another body would be impossible or to do it you would have to kill the first body housing said soul to resurrect a new one with transferred soul.The mere fact that they word their caveat the way they do means they don't need a soul for what they are doing.They just don't want to 1.Unduly waste time and resources 2.Deal with the ramifications of multiple clones of the same mutant running around. To explain it differently let us go with the 'digital copy of memories' in Cerebros data network as being the 'soul' , the mere fact that one is updated and always lags behind the prime subjects memories means they are not one and the same , to suggest two souls exist for one identity at any one time may be cool sci fi concept but it still masks cloning pure and simple.What they do is still cloning whether physical or mental

Nice observations

[Devaishwarya]

Why is this still being debated? It's already been confirmed that the Resurrection system isn't just some hard science clone body situation that there's a mystical / Soul element to the Resurrection process. If there wasn't them dying in other world or Amenth wouldn't have mattered diddly-squat because they already had the genetic material and backup files back on Earth.

Some just like having all the joy, wonder and impossibilities sucked out of the high-fantasy books they're reading.

[cranger]

Why is this still being debated? It's already been confirmed that the Resurrection system isn't just some hard science clone body situation that there's a mystical / Soul element to the Resurrection process. If there wasn't them dying in other world or Amenth wouldn't have mattered diddly-squat because they already had the genetic material and backup files back on Earth.

There was nothing about the explanation of the resurrection process that would indicate what happened with the death's in Otherworld or Amenth would happen. In addition, what happened in those cases is barely explained and certainly not in a way that any story events care about so far.

Put it this way, if next month a book came out which showed them resurrecting someone who turned out not to be dead and some new explanation was given then nothing that has happened so far would contradict that new understanding. Characters in the books have even questioned the process.

[loke13]

There was nothing about the explanation of the resurrection process that would indicate what happened with the death's in Otherworld or Amenth would happen. In addition, what happened in those cases is barely explained and certainly not in a way that any story events care about so far.

Put it this way, if next month a book came out which showed them resurrecting someone who turned out not to be dead and some new explanation was given then nothing that has happened so far would contradict that new understanding. Characters in the books have even questioned the process.

We already have confirmation via the data pages in House of X that the anima / soul of an individual is return to their body during the resurrection process. We already know the resurrection process isn't simply just about them making a genetic copy and downloading their memories into that new body because if it was their Point of Death wouldn't matter in the slightest and their backup files would not have been corrupted.

[baxer]

We already have confirmation via the data pages in House of X that the anima / soul of an individual is return to their body during the resurrection process. We already know the resurrection process isn't simply just about them making a genetic copy and downloading their memories into that new body because if it was their Point of Death wouldn't matter in the slightest and their backup files would not have been corrupted.

There still huge doubts about it, they ddint answered everything about it

There was nothing about the explanation of the resurrection process that would indicate what happened with the death's in Otherworld or Amenth would happen. In addition, what happened in those cases is barely explained and certainly not in a way that any story events care about so far.

Put it this way, if next month a book came out which showed them resurrecting someone who turned out not to be dead and some new explanation was given then nothing that has happened so far would contradict that new understanding. Characters in the books have even questioned the process.

Exactly, What happened with Amenth and otherworld mades zero sense with what we know about ressurrection. like they need to confirm a body to get the ressurrection proccess going. If in the moment of dead the sould went to the cerebro, they would know without needing a body.

I wonder if Hickman gonna explain it or just keep doing things without justifying it

[cranger]

We already have confirmation via the data pages in House of X that the anima / soul of an individual is return to their body during the resurrection process. We already know the resurrection process isn't simply just about them making a genetic copy and downloading their memories into that new body because if it was their Point of Death wouldn't matter in the slightest and their backup files would not have been corrupted.

The data pages do not say soul or anima. It just says "how they think, how they feel, their memories -- their very being", which can easily be read to mean exact duplicate, undetectable to anyone. The data pages also mention the fear of duplication and "other general questions of morality". If the resurrection process was as straightforward as bringing the soul back, what would happen if the person was still alive? What fear and moral questions do they have?

Otherworld and Amenth are not proof of anything since there is no precedent for death in those places affecting the souls of those who die there. In fact, Jamie Braddock was once killed in Otherworld and was brought back to life before. All you are doing is working with a limited model and then confining your possible reasons to things that fit that model. That is fine, I am not saying these things prove you wrong, but to keep on claiming any other interpretation is wrong while also ignoring half of the argument anyone brings up in the discussion is being very shortsighted.

[Kingdom X]

Some just like having all the joy, wonder and impossibilities sucked out of the high-fantasy books they're reading.

Right... like are y'all gonna go on rant about the genetics of the X-gene because that surely doesn't make any type of real world sense but I don't hear a peep.

[cranger]

Right... like are y'all gonna go on rant about the genetics of the X-gene because that surely doesn't make any type of real world sense but I don't hear a peep.

No, because if we talk about how silly it is to distinguish oneself and one's superiority based on the privilege of being born with the right gene we all of a sudden do not understand "the metaphor", but for seriousness the absurdity of the genetic mumbo jumbo gets brought up often, but that is also something that has been discussed for decades before Krakoa.

[baxer]

Right... like are y'all gonna go on rant about the genetics of the X-gene because that surely doesn't make any type of real world sense but I don't hear a peep.

But who is asking for realism? X-gene is ok with the fictional world x-men are

[Devaishwarya]

Right... like are y'all gonna go on rant about the genetics of the X-gene because that surely doesn't make any type of real world sense but I don't hear a peep.

I remember no very long ago there were pages and pages of "discussion" (more than once, actually) about that very same topic. There were then, as now, a whole lot of back and forth but no going anywhere.
And I remember just how intent the participants were at trying to make "logical sense" of it and thinking to myself then: "some readers either don't understand comics or they just don't want to enjoy comics, at all".