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  1. #16
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    The only thing I know about Korngold is the Love Theme Suite from the Adventures of Robin Hood. That was a fantastic piece of music. I will have to look up the score for Obsession on YouTube. Thanks for the recommendation. Hermann did a lot of great work with Hitchcock. It's funny that you mention Jerry Goldsmith. He's the dude who sort of got me interested more in movie music. He scored for the somewhat forgotten film A Patch of Blue, and after watching that great movie I started to pay WAY more attention to the music in movies. I liked how he used electric guitars and harmonicas in that film. But my favorite score of all-time has to be Ennio Morricone's PERFECT Cinema Paradiso soundtrack. It's so romantic, nostalgic and bittersweet. It's flawless. Unfortunately, that kind of music would never work for Doom. He's just not that kind of fella. I like the fact that Doom, Magneto and Ultron don't really have much time for love interests. Particularly, I like the fact that Doom is a little bit like author Jack Kerouac. Kerouac was extremely devoted to his mother and claimed that she was the only woman he ever truly loved. I think Victor would understand that sentiment perfectly. I hope they show that relationship in the MCU movies/shows. There are WAY too many characters with "daddy issues" in the MCU. I would LOVE to have an A-List character like Doom have a strong MATERNAL influence on him. Again, I'm gonna listen to your Obsession recommendation. It sounds so good! Look, the MCU is doing just fine without standout musical soundtracks, but I will be somewhat disappointed if Victor doesn't get his own amazing theme. And I don't mean using popular and/or classical music already available in the public domain. It has to belong to him alone. Just like the Imperial March belongs to Darth Vader alone.
    It sure does....it just summons up menace and power. I hope that we do get Doom in the MCU but I fear it may be many years away now. This pandemic has me feeling down about the possibility.

    Korngold's score from The Adventures of Robin Hood is one of my all time favorites and would you believe I bought that love theme on I-Tunes earlier this year for my I-Pod. It is conducted by John Williams back when he was with the Boston Pops. Boy, I need the find those episodes on PBS. Another track on that same album is "Stella By Starlight" (Victor Young) from my favorite ghost movie "The Uninvited". Both these have Itzhak Perlman on the violin. Another Herrmann/Hitchcock soundtrack I like is from "Marnie" and of course "Vertigo"

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    It sure does....it just summons up menace and power. I hope that we do get Doom in the MCU but I fear it may be many years away now. This pandemic has me feeling down about the possibility.

    Korngold's score from The Adventures of Robin Hood is one of my all time favorites and would you believe I bought that love theme on I-Tunes earlier this year for my I-Pod. It is conducted by John Williams back when he was with the Boston Pops. Boy, I need the find those episodes on PBS. Another track on that same album is "Stella By Starlight" (Victor Young) from my favorite ghost movie "The Uninvited". Both these have Itzhak Perlman on the violin. Another Herrmann/Hitchcock soundtrack I like is from "Marnie" and of course "Vertigo"
    Yeah, I do think the pandemic will delay things, unfortunately. But it just gives Disney more time to prepare for his arrival and more time to forget about previously panned Fantastic Four movies. Korngold's score for Robin Hood is great. I think I might have heard the Boston Pops version before, but the love theme was great. Ah, Stella By Starlight. What a sentimental piece of music. I love it. I don't want to be too hard on MCU composers, they've made great music over the years. But not on Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, James Bond, Jaws, and Star Wars level, unfortunately. And being the huge franchise that they are, that's REALLY disappointing. Some folks even say the DCEU has better music. To be honest, the last really great score I've heard was Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings music. It seems to me a lot of television shows and movies just don't care about music as much anymore. But I always liked the Golden Girls, M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Happy Days, Cheers etc themes. The composers put a lot of heart into their work and it showed. I think studios want to cut costs and orchestras are easy targets. I think Doom will get a decent theme. I would love for it to happen. Two of my favorite characters in the MCU, Wanda and Vision, probably won't get a love theme (much to my regret). Them being B-List characters doesn't really help their cause. I think Victor has a better shot for sure. I was thinking wouldn't it be funny if Disney uses Hank Mancini's Experiment in Terror for the Latverian leader. He would have to wear a fedora and trench coat, though. LOL!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    That entire back and forth was disturbing on many levels, considering we're talking about two of the greatest intellects, leaders, strong willed and presumably psychologically balanced individuals on the planet behaving that way in a crisis. Oddly enough, it brought to mind the type of argument that I used to have with one of my more insecure ex-girlfriends. If I was completely unfamiliar with Reed or Victor, I would speculate that the two had been lovers at one point. I've only ever seen people with deep emotional or physically intimate history be that easily triggered and to that magnitude.



    Place your bets now on how the moon gets fixed. I'm going with Uatu or Ulana the Watchers -- or their still as yet unnamed kid, who is Blue Marvel's "godchild" -- playing a role, with time travel being my second pick.

    By the way, I think Victor was right to speed things up. Time slows near the event horizon of a black hole due to super-gravitational forces. Light or energy reflected off of mirrors from a source outside of the event horizon would land at a different rate than the same light hitting the moon if there wasn't a black hole.
    When has Victor Von Doom ever been portrayed as psychologically balanced?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Yeah, I do think the pandemic will delay things, unfortunately. But it just gives Disney more time to prepare for his arrival and more time to forget about previously panned Fantastic Four movies. Korngold's score for Robin Hood is great. I think I might have heard the Boston Pops version before, but the love theme was great. Ah, Stella By Starlight. What a sentimental piece of music. I love it. I don't want to be too hard on MCU composers, they've made great music over the years. But not on Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park, James Bond, Jaws, and Star Wars level, unfortunately. And being the huge franchise that they are, that's REALLY disappointing. Some folks even say the DCEU has better music. To be honest, the last really great score I've heard was Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings music. It seems to me a lot of television shows and movies just don't care about music as much anymore. But I always liked the Golden Girls, M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore Show, Happy Days, Cheers etc themes. The composers put a lot of heart into their work and it showed. I think studios want to cut costs and orchestras are easy targets. I think Doom will get a decent theme. I would love for it to happen. Two of my favorite characters in the MCU, Wanda and Vision, probably won't get a love theme (much to my regret). Them being B-List characters doesn't really help their cause. I think Victor has a better shot for sure. I was thinking wouldn't it be funny if Disney uses Hank Mancini's Experiment in Terror for the Latverian leader. He would have to wear a fedora and trench coat, though. LOL!
    Oh, yeah. Experiment in Terror. A rare turn to the sinister for Henry Mancini. The local horror show from years ago called Creature Features used to use that for their opening theme. It's more of a crime film but it sounds more like a horror genre type of music.

    It would be great to finally have Disney/Marvel come up with a more faithful version of Doom. But I tend to think that the MCU Doom won't have a lot of those details that have attached themselves to him in the comics that we Doom fans would like to see.


    Doom loves music and has some talent at the piano, at least by Sue's account. She was quite taken by it.

    And I love this opening scene from a short story by Priest called "Masks" in Marvel Double Shots #2


  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagSeven View Post
    I love how I can read the same scene separately from both of their perspectives and they can both end up looking like pompous dicks. Really liked this issue.
    I have to side with Victor here. Reed knew in advance that telling Victor anything opinion-based would just set him off. But he called anyway, and when he got the response from Victor that he wanted, he egged Victor on and insisted on getting in the last word. This is not how you constructively convey your support to anyone. On the contrary. Reed was being a "Class 100" dick, and he knew it.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    When has Victor Von Doom ever been portrayed as psychologically balanced?
    Are you suggesting that Doom sees himself as mentally unstable? I know as readers we have the benefit of the narrator's omnipresent perspective, but I think Victor would say that he is very much in his right mind 99% of the time.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Are you suggesting that Doom sees himself as mentally unstable? I know as readers we have the benefit of the narrator's omnipresent perspective, but I think Victor would say that he is very much in his right mind 99% of the time.
    I'm sure he would but I don't think anyone who spends more than five minutes with the man would make such a claim unless they were indoctrinated by his propaganda.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm sure he would but I don't think anyone who spends more than five minutes with the man would make such a claim unless they were indoctrinated by his propaganda.
    I get what you're saying, but on the spectrum of mental health I think most PhD's in the field would grade Victor out as balanced, i.e., perfectly sane. Even Hitler, by every account, was perfectly sane. Sure, we call them "madmen" and other terms as if to indicate they are somehow psychologically departed from normal senses and perspective, but they're not. To do that would be to diminish what real insanity is and, further, it runs the risk of dismissing full culpability for their beliefs, choices and actions.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 11-26-2020 at 10:55 AM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    It should to be said to all our armchair mental health experts here (myself include) -- You can be sane by certain definitions*, and still have personality disorders and other issues.

    In other words, Victor von Doom is sane by and large. He can be understood as sane and still have big personality disorders such as cognitive dissonance (which is what we see in Doctor Doom #9), repitition compulsion (in this case repeating and self-enforcing the conditions that led to his college accident in a gimme heroic moment), psychological projection, narcissism. You can be sane and have all those flaws.


    * It's important to note that insanity has many definitions. To be declared Legally Sane or Legally Insane is not the same as being defined as sane/insane in a clinical sense.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It should to be said to all our armchair mental health experts here (myself include) -- You can be sane by certain definitions*, and still have personality disorders and other issues.

    In other words, Victor von Doom is sane by and large. He can be understood as sane and still have big personality disorders such as cognitive dissonance (which is what we see in Doctor Doom #9), repitition compulsion (in this case repeating and self-enforcing the conditions that led to his college accident in a gimme heroic moment), psychological projection, narcissism. You can be sane and have all those flaws.


    * It's important to note that insanity has many definitions. To be declared Legally Sane or Legally Insane is not the same as being defined as sane/insane in a clinical sense.
    I think probably Waid pushed the boundary way too far in Unthinkable and probably a lot of readers remember that. To this day I think Waid was trying to do his own Silence of the Lambs story and "Lectorize" Doom by having him wear the skin suit. Bear in mind that it was an acolyte nicknamed Buffalo Bill that was guilty of those ghastly crimes. Lector was nicknamed Hannibal the Cannibal, which was worse. The Unthinkable storyline is a strong one and hard to shake Doom loose from that. But I think it went too far esp with a character that had no history of that kind of fetish. Waid did have a good scene where Doom locks Reed in his vast library of arcana. But it could have gone farther, he only indicts Reed with being a bit of a publicity seeker. But the brutality was ramped up beyond the usual death traps of the Lee &m Kirby days.


  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think probably Waid pushed the boundary way too far in Unthinkable and probably a lot of readers remember that.
    How much did UNTHINKABLE sell compared to Secret Wars '84 or Secret Wars 2015? I don't think that comic did a lot to define Doom.

    It certainly didn't remove sympathetic and anti-heroic Doom off the table. Bendis' INFAMOUS IRON MAN did better business than that, as did Cantwell's series. Or you know JMS' "Doomed Affairs" story from Amazing Spider-Man which was the first introduction to many readers to Doom and that shows him warts and all. (Spider-Man as a rule always does have a bigger audience than a Fantastic Four comic, and it's also the most civilian friendly superhero title, often being the gateway to the rest of the MU).

    Even then UNTHINKABLE is a story about Doom being super violent and extreme by degree but those are still the actions of a sane person.

    Doom killed Valeria for power and used that power for revenge. That's extreme and baroque and so on, but it's in the realm of reason...as opposed to the serial killers you mention who attack and kill random people for no reason.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    I've just read the issue and I must confess that I was pretty excited after the preview. And I'm not disappointed at all! What a roller coaster! I loved it!
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Oh, yeah. Experiment in Terror. A rare turn to the sinister for Henry Mancini. The local horror show from years ago called Creature Features used to use that for their opening theme. It's more of a crime film but it sounds more like a horror genre type of music.

    It would be great to finally have Disney/Marvel come up with a more faithful version of Doom. But I tend to think that the MCU Doom won't have a lot of those details that have attached themselves to him in the comics that we Doom fans would like to see.


    Doom loves music and has some talent at the piano, at least by Sue's account. She was quite taken by it.

    And I love this opening scene from a short story by Priest called "Masks" in Marvel Double Shots #2

    Those were the two images I had in mind reading the plot of the second season Cantwell could write...
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Just caught the reference to Experiment in Terror. I saw that movie a while back and it is indeed truly awesome.

  15. #30
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    Hello again Abe! I am so anxious to see if Cantwell ever gets to write that second arc. Series are relaunched quite frequently and I feel that the chances may be good that he will get to do it as perhaps a maxi series. What would give the chances a boost is if Doom finally gets a definite start date for his entrance to the MCU

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Just caught the reference to Experiment in Terror. I saw that movie a while back and it is indeed truly awesome.
    Yeah, it comes up every once in a while on TCM. I'll have to revisit it since it has been while.

    Well, got to dash off for now and finish prepping for Thanksgiving dinner.
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