Doctor Doom #9 "The Windmills of My Mind" REVIEW and SPOILERS

[Albert1981]

Oh, yeah. Experiment in Terror. A rare turn to the sinister for Henry Mancini. The local horror show from years ago called Creature Features used to use that for their opening theme. It's more of a crime film but it sounds more like a horror genre type of music.

It would be great to finally have Disney/Marvel come up with a more faithful version of Doom. But I tend to think that the MCU Doom won't have a lot of those details that have attached themselves to him in the comics that we Doom fans would like to see.


Doom loves music and has some talent at the piano, at least by Sue's account. She was quite taken by it.

And I love this opening scene from a short story by Priest called "Masks" in Marvel Double Shots #2

Wow! I had no idea Victor was so musical. Definitely getting some "Phantom of the Opera" vibes here.

[Iron Maiden]

I think that is why Victor is so different from Reed. He has the temperment of an artist/musician along with the cold logic of a scientist. Sometimes both at once, especially in the current issue when he describes his solution for the black hole more like an artist would describe his latest work.

[Albert1981]

I think that is why Victor is so different from Reed. He has the temperment of an artist/musician along with the cold logic of a scientist. Sometimes both at once, especially in the current issue when he describes his solution for the black hole more like an artist would describe his latest work.

I definitely like that aspect of his personality. Reed (and many other scientists in the Marvel Universe like Pym, Stark, and Banner) are pretty much uninterested in "cultural" matters like Victor is. I like science fine, but I wish superhero stories would delve into other subjects besides science and magic if at all possible. I guess that's why I like characters like the Silver Surfer, the Vision and Doctor Doom the most. They've got other priorities besides superheroism and supervillainy. But it's a weird thing with Victor in that he's not as sensitive as Vision and the Silver Surfer are. I wish he were. I suppose his personality would not allow it. Maybe if Doctor Doom were written by a woman that would change!

[Albert1981]

Just caught the reference to Experiment in Terror. I saw that movie a while back and it is indeed truly awesome.

Good movie.

[Iron Maiden]

I definitely like that aspect of his personality. Reed (and many other scientists in the Marvel Universe like Pym, Stark, and Banner) are pretty much uninterested in "cultural" matters like Victor is. I like science fine, but I wish superhero stories would delve into other subjects besides science and magic if at all possible. I guess that's why I like characters like the Silver Surfer, the Vision and Doctor Doom the most. They've got other priorities besides superheroism and supervillainy. But it's a weird thing with Victor in that he's not as sensitive as Vision and the Silver Surfer are. I wish he were. I suppose his personality would not allow it. Maybe if Doctor Doom were written by a woman that would change!

Yes, that would be interesting. There was one time when Ann Nocenti included him in a comic of hers, one of her early published works IIRC. It was the mini series Beauty and the Beast. He more or less observes events from afar as he keeps tabs on a young man claiming to be his son.

[Albert1981]

Yes, that would be interesting. There was one time when Ann Nocenti included him in a comic of hers, one of her early published works IIRC. It was the mini series Beauty and the Beast. He more or less observes events from afar as he keeps tabs on a young man claiming to be his son.

Wow! This looks great. Thanks for sharing. I wonder when Victor joins the MCU, will he become a "quippy" character like practically everybody else is. I think he will have something to do with Sokovia. I think too many fictional countries in the MCU would be pretty problematic.

[Iron Maiden]

I hope they stick to Latveria being a country in the MCU just like in the comics. I wonder if they will pick up on developments in the Doctor Doom solo and have Symkaria be a part of Latveria.

I think they will be treating Doom seriously in the movies, just like they did with Thanos and Loki. I hope they can get lucky with the casting and find someone that will do the character justice like Tom Hiddleston did with Loki. There were so many rumors before the pandemic and it's hard to tell which have any basis in truth. There was a rumor that there would be an end credit scene with the Black Widow movie where Latveria would be mentioned. Before that there was talk of Doom appearing or maybe just being mentioned in Black Panther 2. Another rumor that Lucia von Bardas, a rival of Doom's would serve as an intro to Latveria before Doom would appear. I liked her appearance in Brubaker's Winter Soldier some years back. She made her first appearance in the Bendis mini series Secret War

One never knows if there is a grain of truth in any of this or it's just website click bait.

Here's here origin in a flashback to Secret War in Winter Soldier #3

[Albert1981]

I hope they stick to Latveria being a country in the MCU just like in the comics. I wonder if they will pick up on developments in the Doctor Doom solo and have Symkaria be a part of Latveria.

I think they will be treating Doom seriously in the movies, just like they did with Thanos and Loki. I hope they can get lucky with the casting and find someone that will do the character justice like Tom Hiddleston did with Loki. There were so many rumors before the pandemic and it's hard to tell which have any basis in truth. There was a rumor that there would be an end credit scene with the Black Widow movie where Latveria would be mentioned. Before that there was talk of Doom appearing or maybe just being mentioned in Black Panther 2. Another rumor that Lucia von Bardas, a rival of Doom's would serve as an intro to Latveria before Doom would appear. I liked her appearance in Brubaker's Winter Soldier some years back. She made her first appearance in the Bendis mini series Secret War

One never knows if there is a grain of truth in any of this or it's just website click bait.

Here's here origin in a flashback to Secret War in Winter Soldier #3

I think the MCU has to do something very different than the previous FF and Doctor Doom film incarnations. That's the challenge with rebooting franchises. For many Avengers, the current MCU adaptations are the most known ones. I feel something is lost when Superman, Batman, Joker, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Punisher, Hulk, Blade, Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, and the X-Men have previous versions. I like the totally new live-action characters being seen for the first time. I think that partly accounts for the anticipation for WandaVision because the two titular characters have NEVER appeared in live-action films/shows in the past. I don't want Doom to be a villain that just simply plots world conquest and tries to twirl his mustache while doing it. I think he will be serious, but in typical MCU fashion, he will have moments of humor. I'm biased towards funny characters, villain or hero alike. That's why Ultron was one of my favorites. I mean look at his quotes from Age of Ultron:

Ultron: "As I always say, keep your friends rich, and your enemies rich, and then find out which is which."

Ultron: “The most versatile substance on the planet (vibranium)…And they use it to make a frisbee (Captain America's shield).”

Ultron: "The human race will have every opportunity to improve."
Quicksilver: "And if they don't?"
Ultron: "Ask Noah."

I'm not saying Doom should be an Ultron-like villain, but I hope he's not as bland like he was in previous movies.

The reason why I think Latveria might not make it to the MCU is because if they keep adding more fictional nations, the less "grounded" the entire universe is. I also am curious if they will maintain Doom's Romani heritage and give him an Eastern European accent. I think it will be really weird if he starts talking like Terry Bradshaw, you know?

[Iron Maiden]

I think the MCU has to do something very different than the previous FF and Doctor Doom film incarnations. That's the challenge with rebooting franchises. For many Avengers, the current MCU adaptations are the most known ones. I feel something is lost when Superman, Batman, Joker, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Punisher, Hulk, Blade, Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, and the X-Men have previous versions. I like the totally new live-action characters being seen for the first time. I think that partly accounts for the anticipation for WandaVision because the two titular characters have NEVER appeared in live-action films/shows in the past. I don't want Doom to be a villain that just simply plots world conquest and tries to twirl his mustache while doing it. I think he will be serious, but in typical MCU fashion, he will have moments of humor. I'm biased towards funny characters, villain or hero alike. That's why Ultron was one of my favorites. I mean look at his quotes from Age of Ultron:

Ultron: "As I always say, keep your friends rich, and your enemies rich, and then find out which is which."

Ultron: “The most versatile substance on the planet (vibranium)…And they use it to make a frisbee (Captain America's shield).”

Ultron: "The human race will have every opportunity to improve."
Quicksilver: "And if they don't?"
Ultron: "Ask Noah."

I'm not saying Doom should be an Ultron-like villain, but I hope he's not as bland like he was in previous movies.

The reason why I think Latveria might not make it to the MCU is because if they keep adding more fictional nations, the less "grounded" the entire universe is. I also am curious if they will maintain Doom's Romani heritage and give him an Eastern European accent. I think it will be really weird if he starts talking like Terry Bradshaw, you know?

I'm afraid that they may leave the ethnicity part of the character out, which IMO would be a shame. It seems the only time there is a Romani in a film it's always the old school stuff like in the old Universal monster movies of the 1940s. I'd like the see the MCU Doom be more like how Doom 2099 was done. Warren Ellis once said that he saw Doom as a morally damaged political revolutionary, or words to the effect. And that's how things played out in his Doom arc when he took over from John Francis Moore in issues 24-25. I'd like to have them keep him in the shadows for a while and then suddenly emerge as a big player on the scene. He starts a revolution in Latveria and uses it much like in the comics as a stepping stone for bigger plans.

Unless I misunderstand you, I have to correct you to point out that Wanda and The vision have been in a couple of Marvel movies. Wanda is played by Elizabeth Olsen and the Vison is played by Paul Bettany in Infinity War, Age of Ultron, Civil War and quite a few as the voice of the AI Jarvis. Elizabeth Olsen debuted in an end credits seen as Wanda in Captain America: Winter Soldier and the rest of the Marvel movies since then.

[Tendrin]

I'm afraid that they may leave the ethnicity part of the character out, which IMO would be a shame. It seems the only time there is a Romani in a film it's always the old school stuff like in the old Universal monster movies of the 1940s. I'd like the see the MCU Doom be more like how Doom 2099 was done. Warren Ellis once said that he saw Doom as a morally damaged political revolutionary, or words to the effect. And that's how things played out in his Doom arc when he took over from John Francis Moore in issues 24-25. I'd like to have them keep him in the shadows for a while and then suddenly emerge as a big player on the scene. He starts a revolution in Latveria and uses it much like in the comics as a stepping stone for bigger plans.

Unless I misunderstand you, I have to correct you to point out that Wanda and The vision have been in a couple of Marvel movies. Wanda is played by Elizabeth Olsen and the Vison is played by Paul Bettany in Infinity War, Age of Ultron, Civil War and quite a few as the voice of the AI Jarvis. Elizabeth Olsen debuted in an end credits seen as Wanda in Captain America: Winter Soldier and the rest of the Marvel movies since then.

For MCU Latveria, I'd suggest having Doom establish it as a city-state akin to Singapore.

[jackolover]

I do believe Victor von Doom had become paranoid about Reed Richards phone call in this issue, like one of those pre-Marvel scientists in Atlas books, in stories where they had delusions of grandeur, only to have their fantasies dashed at the last possible moment out of insecurity, due to the merest semblance of implied questioning, none of which Doom tolerates, at any time.

The whole narrative is by a madman, thinking he will rule the world after saving the day. The delusion directs the outcome of the book. I’ve read something similar about Norman Osborn thinking he just received Ultimate power after the Gathering of Five, and the next issue, he’s led away babbling incoherently in his own dream world.

I feel the other super hero scientists witnessing Dooms error, will jump in and reset the operation at its initial settings, and save the day, and they rule the world, and Doom is made a laughing stock.

It’s a very unsatisfying conclusion for the desperately in need of recognition Victor von Doom, and only because Richards is present. It’s like Doom and Richards are so competitive, they are stuck in a spiral of trying to justify themselves, when if they were separated, none of this would happen. How glorious Doom could have been while the Richards family were off creating the Multiverse. But then, who would have created the disastrous Black Hole emergency?

I didn’t expect this issue. I thought Cantwell would treat Doom much more sympathetically. But it seems Doom was editorially fated to be this pathetic, failure in this superstar, public, environment. In a dystopian setting, Doom is the ruler of the world. But Earth in its normal state finds no room for Doom. It’s almost like Dr Strange or Professor X have to put in an anti-Richards safety valve in his psyche so he doesn’t panic.

[Albert1981]

I'm afraid that they may leave the ethnicity part of the character out, which IMO would be a shame. It seems the only time there is a Romani in a film it's always the old school stuff like in the old Universal monster movies of the 1940s. I'd like the see the MCU Doom be more like how Doom 2099 was done. Warren Ellis once said that he saw Doom as a morally damaged political revolutionary, or words to the effect. And that's how things played out in his Doom arc when he took over from John Francis Moore in issues 24-25. I'd like to have them keep him in the shadows for a while and then suddenly emerge as a big player on the scene. He starts a revolution in Latveria and uses it much like in the comics as a stepping stone for bigger plans.

Unless I misunderstand you, I have to correct you to point out that Wanda and The vision have been in a couple of Marvel movies. Wanda is played by Elizabeth Olsen and the Vison is played by Paul Bettany in Infinity War, Age of Ultron, Civil War and quite a few as the voice of the AI Jarvis. Elizabeth Olsen debuted in an end credits seen as Wanda in Captain America: Winter Soldier and the rest of the Marvel movies since then.

Ellis's assessment seems correct. I think Doom has a lot of serious ethical flaws in his personality, but for some reason I always found him to be a man who has a sense of honor. That makes him super interesting. I do think he will be built up like Thanos was. But for some reason, I believe he will be "Americanized". I hope the MCU explores his troubled relationship with his parents. I get the sense that Victor sort of honored his father, but he loved his mother. I don't want more "daddy issues" in the MCU. The only one I really liked was the relationship between Stark and Ultron (which wasn't really explored, regrettably).

Yeah, I didn't make myself clear. I apologize for that. I meant that Wanda and Vision never appeared in live-action BEFORE the MCU got started. Whereas many of the characters I mentioned in my previous post DID. I hate recastings and reboots, but since Marvel Studios didn't have control of all its properties, they have no choice but to do them.

[Iron Maiden]

I do believe Victor von Doom had become paranoid about Reed Richards phone call in this issue, like one of those pre-Marvel scientists in Atlas books, in stories where they had delusions of grandeur, only to have their fantasies dashed at the last possible moment out of insecurity, due to the merest semblance of implied questioning, none of which Doom tolerates, at any time.

The whole narrative is by a madman, thinking he will rule the world after saving the day. The delusion directs the outcome of the book. I’ve read something similar about Norman Osborn thinking he just received Ultimate power after the Gathering of Five, and the next issue, he’s led away babbling incoherently in his own dream world.

I feel the other super hero scientists witnessing Dooms error, will jump in and reset the operation at its initial settings, and save the day, and they rule the world, and Doom is made a laughing stock.

It’s a very unsatisfying conclusion for the desperately in need of recognition Victor von Doom, and only because Richards is present. It’s like Doom and Richards are so competitive, they are stuck in a spiral of trying to justify themselves, when if they were separated, none of this would happen. How glorious Doom could have been while the Richards family were off creating the Multiverse. But then, who would have created the disastrous Black Hole emergency?

We have to concede that Reed and Tony weren't totally at fault. Perhaps there should have been some kind of safety valve to prevent the build up of the black hole. Or on a less scientific solution like having some kind of security force to fight off sabotage style attacks.

I will always be grateful to Bendis for doing something with Hickman's conclusion for Doom at the end of Secret Wars. It could have very easily ended up with Doom going back to his old self like Slott did in his Heralds of Doom arc in Fantastic Four. The only thing is I Bendis didn't totally convince me that Doom had some kind of secret admiration for Tony that he would want to honor his memory by taking on the mantle of Iron Man. I do think the idea was good, to show Victor being a bit uncertain as to what he should actually be doing once he decided not to go back to being "Doctor Doom". My belief has been that a good deal of "Doctor Doom" is a performance. That's why I like the little scenes Cantwell shows of Doom writing in his journal where he does critique his actions. There is even some regret there.

I didn’t expect this issue. I thought Cantwell would treat Doom much more sympathetically. But it seems Doom was editorially fated to be this pathetic, failure in this superstar, public, environment. In a dystopian setting, Doom is the ruler of the world. But Earth in its normal state finds no room for Doom. It’s almost like Dr Strange or Professor X have to put in an anti-Richards safety valve in his psyche so he doesn’t panic.

I wouldn't assess things quite that harshly until I see what the hell happens next issue. There are a lot of things to finish up for a last issue and I doubt we will be completely satisfied. I for one would have liked to have see what role Mistress Death was going to play but I think that will be a dangler to be perhaps addressed later or not at all. I would hate to see it being dealt with offhandedly like the child Amara was expecting.

[Iron Maiden]

Ellis's assessment seems correct. I think Doom has a lot of serious ethical flaws in his personality, but for some reason I always found him to be a man who has a sense of honor. That makes him super interesting. I do think he will be built up like Thanos was. But for some reason, I believe he will be "Americanized". I hope the MCU explores his troubled relationship with his parents. I get the sense that Victor sort of honored his father, but he loved his mother. I don't want more "daddy issues" in the MCU. The only one I really liked was the relationship between Stark and Ultron (which wasn't really explored, regrettably).

Yeah, I didn't make myself clear. I apologize for that. I meant that Wanda and Vision never appeared in live-action BEFORE the MCU got started. Whereas many of the characters I mentioned in my previous post DID. I hate recastings and reboots, but since Marvel Studios didn't have control of all its properties, they have no choice but to do them.

To tell the truth I thought Marvel wouldn't include Wanda and the Vision, particularly their romance because it does have a peculiar history in the comics. I hope the architects of the MCU ignore the Byrne stuff about Vision

I agree with you about Doom's sense of honor. Stan and Jack put it there and I don't like it when writers contradict it. Of course you may not find it in all the early stories since Doom was definitely a work in progress. And you always have to be careful how Doom phrases his promises, etc. As for his Americanization I hope Marvel/Disney realizes how that turned out in Fox's movies. In the first, Julian McMahon was given a character more like Trump and even the mention of Latveria has dealt with very off-handedly. I have hopes for this team, particularly if the Russo brothers are on board with it. They have said they want to use more of the traits from the comics and that's why they felt Fox's Doom was not very effective. I have to dig up their interview from a couple of years ago.

[Albert1981]

To tell the truth I thought Marvel wouldn't include Wanda and the Vision, particularly their romance because it does have a peculiar history in the comics. I hope the architects of the MCU ignore the Byrne stuff about Vision

I agree with you about Doom's sense of honor. Stan and Jack put it there and I don't like it when writers contradict it. Of course you may not find it in all the early stories since Doom was definitely a work in progress. And you always have to be careful how Doom phrases his promises, etc. As for his Americanization I hope Marvel/Disney realizes how that turned out in Fox's movies. In the first, Julian McMahon was given a character more like Trump and even the mention of Latveria has dealt with very off-handedly. I have hopes for this team, particularly if the Russo brothers are on board with it. They have said they want to use more of the traits from the comics and that's why they felt Fox's Doom was not very effective. I have to dig up their interview from a couple of years ago.

Yeah, I'm still kinda in shock that Marvel Studios brought in Wanda and Vision at all too. I think most comic book readers are. And the romance thing was another stunner. For sure I thought that they would NEVER get around to that because of its silliness and unconventional nature. But the fact that they did and it seems to be really popular shows that Feige and company know what the heck they're doing. I also hope they don't include too much of the Byrne stuff either. I do think they will keep some of the stuff Byrne did about the reconstruction of Vision after his "death", but I don't think they will go the "Data" route of taking away his emotions. That'll be really harsh. And I don't think they're gonna make Mephisto Wiccan's and Speed's baby daddy either. This IS Disney we're talking about here.

I haven't read Doom lately. I wasn't aware he has committed any reprehensible acts recently. I just think he's a damaged and misguided dude. I do like the fact that he is one of the rare "villains" who is a head of state. I understand characters in the Marvel Universe can't always trust him, but let's not forget he IS a politician. And folks in that profession are professional liars. And I think Doom relishes the whole diplomacy thing and loves hanging out at the United Nations Headquarters in New York. 20th Century Fox never seemed to be able to flesh out Victor for some reason. He was just basically a generic bad guy. Not the 60s style one-dimensional type of villain, but he could have easily been the main baddie for a Die Hard movie (personality-wise). I heard the 2015 version was an absolute disgrace, though. I'll have to take a look at the Russo Brothers take on Victor. I'm sure it will be MUCH better than their uninspired interpretation of the Hulk. And it certainly can't be worse than the recent versions of Superman and Batman over at the DCEU. They literally turned Superman into a war criminal and Batman into a straight up murderer in their recent outings and I really didn't like that. At least Garfield's Amazing Spider-Man was merely a jackass in his movies.

I too hope Victor remains Eastern European. The MCU is already heavily Anglo-North American thus far. A little bit of an international flavor would be great. But first they gotta find an actor who can actually do an Eastern European accent effectively. Chadwick's African one was pretty good in my view.