Thor & Mjolnir: what does it mean to be worthy?

[babyblob]

I've always taken it to mean that a person must be the kind of guy that Odin would think is worthy. They have to be a noble warrior. They need a good heart, but must also be willing to kill their enemies if the need to.

As for the times when Thor has been mind controlled or went mad, Thor is still Thor. The person itself hasn't changed. He's just not in his right mind at the moment.

I dont know about this. Thor never killed anyone in the early days. he went out if his way not to. Talked all the time about how killing went against his code.

[Frontier]

The same can be said for Spiderman. he became a kind of jerk when he got his powers. Wanting money and looking out only for him. hence why he let the theif go. He had to regain his nobility and remember what uncle Ben taught him. So by those standards he should be able to lift it.

I think Peter's neuroses, self-doubt, and guilt is what get in the way of him being worthy enough to wield Mjolnir.

[Triniking1234]

Marvel played themselves when they established that non-Asgardians can lift it.

[JudicatorPrime]

I've always taken it to mean that a person must be the kind of guy that Odin would think is worthy.

Ok, I said I wasn't going to participate in this discussion, but I have to jump off the fence for a second. I would agree with this. Many see "worthiness" as a universal virtue or standard of moral excellence, but it really refers to Odin's categorical imperatives. Alright, back on the fence I go. Need more kettle corn.

[JudicatorPrime]

Marvel played themselves when they established that non-Asgardians can lift it.

How so? Technically the dwarves who made the hammer aren't Asgardians, and Odin never stipulated in the spell, "...be they of Asgardian residency....." Interested in hearing how you arrive at your viewpoint.

Ok, ok, back on the fence I go. Promise.

[davew128]

How is it any different than in DC when a Green Lantern goes evil and the ring still responds? If the ring chooses the wielder and the Guardians can shut them down, how is there ever a rogue Green Lantern?
Same thing here with the hammer, its called bad writing. We sort of saw this mocked a bit by Hickman in Time Runs Out with Thorr's hammer, "whosoever holds this hammer, if he be unworthy"...
I also think this is something going to be addressed in the current Thor run by Cates. The number of people wielding the hammer has gotten out of control when you start to consider alternate timelines.

[Papa Moai]

I vaguely remember there being a suggestion that Beta Ray Bill was worthy because he was the chosen protector of his species. I liked that idea. That the worthy aren't just any old heroic people but champions of kinds, the way Thor is arguably for Asgard. That would explain characters like Captain America and, I think, Wonder Woman being worthy. Black Panther would probably also qualify, although I don't know if he has ever tried. But, sadly, it doesn't explain any of the random people who have acted as replacement Thors over the years.

[Ichijinijisanji]

I vaguely remember there being a suggestion that Beta Ray Bill was worthy because he was the chosen protector of his species. I liked that idea. That the worthy aren't just any old heroic people but champions of kinds, the way Thor is arguably for Asgard. That would explain characters like Captain America and, I think, Wonder Woman being worthy. Black Panther would probably also qualify, although I don't know if he has ever tried. But, sadly, it doesn't explain any of the random people who have acted as replacement Thors over the years.

black panther was recently able to lift it becuase he belonged to th panther tribe

[Alpha to Omega]

black panther was recently able to lift it becuase he belonged to th panther tribe

Black Panther didn’t lift it, he somehow used the fact his ancestor lifted Mjolnir to make the hammer unwilling to hit him, despite it making absolutely no sense.

[Sutekh]

Back in the day I had this idea that Fury's whisper that made Mjolnir drop from Thor's hand wasn't directed at Thor. He was talking to Mjolnir. Thor didn't drop Mjolnir, Mjolnir abandoned Thor. And then Mjolnir chose Jane Foster. Why? Not 'because she was worthy,' but because she was weak and dying and *utterly dependent* on Mjolnir for everything, right down to her next breath.

Mjolnir rode that woman around like Yoda on Luke's back. Mjolnir wasn't an accessory to an already super-strong immortal Asgardian god-king, Mjolnir was *everything* to Jane Foster's Thor, and completely flipped a power dynamic that had existed for centuries. Thor uses the hammer? Not anymore, now the hammer hold all the cards, and picks who gets to be Thor.

And finally the 'Mother Storm' inside Mjolnir would 'die' snuffed out in some grand sacrifice, having itself learned the sort of lesson about nobility and heroism that Thor himself had to learn, and everything would 'go back to normal' and Mjolnir would go back to being just 'Thor's magic hammer.'

But that turned out to be all in my head, and the real story turned out not to make a lick of sense. C'est la vie!

[Ichijinijisanji]

Black Panther didn’t lift it, he somehow used the fact his ancestor lifted Mjolnir to make the hammer unwilling to hit him, despite it making absolutely no sense.

honestly with that favorable treatment I wouldn't be surprised if he could atleast make it budge.

[Frontier]

Back in the day I had this idea that Fury's whisper that made Mjolnir drop from Thor's hand wasn't directed at Thor. He was talking to Mjolnir. Thor didn't drop Mjolnir, Mjolnir abandoned Thor. And then Mjolnir chose Jane Foster. Why? Not 'because she was worthy,' but because she was weak and dying and *utterly dependent* on Mjolnir for everything, right down to her next breath.

Mjolnir rode that woman around like Yoda on Luke's back. Mjolnir wasn't an accessory to an already super-strong immortal Asgardian god-king, Mjolnir was *everything* to Jane Foster's Thor, and completely flipped a power dynamic that had existed for centuries. Thor uses the hammer? Not anymore, now the hammer hold all the cards, and picks who gets to be Thor.

And finally the 'Mother Storm' inside Mjolnir would 'die' snuffed out in some grand sacrifice, having itself learned the sort of lesson about nobility and heroism that Thor himself had to learn, and everything would 'go back to normal' and Mjolnir would go back to being just 'Thor's magic hammer.'

But that turned out to be all in my head, and the real story turned out not to make a lick of sense. C'est la vie!

This kind of makes me wish they had gone more into Jane's over dependence on Mjolnir both in terms of herself as Thor and the effect it had on her health because in hindsight that level of self-sacrifice is really not healthy but it was as much a power fantasy for her as it was for the reader.

[PCN24454]

This kind of makes me wish they had gone more into Jane's over dependence on Mjolnir both in terms of herself as Thor and the effect it had on her health because in hindsight that level of self-sacrifice is really not healthy but it was as much a power fantasy for her as it was for the reader.

Especially considering how she escaped the negative consequences of her actions.

[lordozone]

I have always seen being worthy as having nothing to do with being good or evil according to human morality: for me it is more a question of corresponding to Asgardian (and therefore viking) values: being a great warrior, fighting for his convictions and his people, not doubting himself.