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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Default "Krakoa isn't about assimilation"?



    Really? Literally everything we’ve seen of Krakoa involves the Government forcing an artificially constructed and induced culture built on erasing, shaming and belittling anything even remotely human-adjacent except when that’s convenient for them. Didn't Dani herself comment on how humans have built nothing of value in the first issue of New Mutants?

    (And while arguably all cultures spend some time separating what they are from neighboring cultures that they are not, some of them are a lot more... into that than others.)

  2. #2
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    She just means that being proud of her heritage isn't a thing that changed because she's now part of a nation for mutants. An important point since ppl were accusing writers of erasing characters' backgrounds/religion/culture without any text to back it up

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    What I have noticed when reading the new comics (granted I am only six issues into the Dawn of X titles so take this for what you want.) Is how dependent everyone is on Krakoa for everything. The drugs the mutants sell, their tech, the gates, I mean everything. I would love to see this as a plot by Krakoa to make mutants so dependent on him that they grow weaker. like a plot for Krakoa to take over or something. maybe do some subtle mind controlling in the food and water to make mutants more aggressive or amplify their anger towards normal humans or something.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Are you angry because your headcanon of what is Krakoa is not true?

    Kitty Pryde wears her Star of David around her neck at Quiet Council meetings. Magneto, on the other hand, no longer identifies as a religious Jew.

    They can choose.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    All culture is artificially constructed. It doesn't occur innately in us or appear in nature. If we're born in a different place, time or setting, we'd have a different cultural identity. The only thing Marvel's human culture has over Mutant culture is time. They're accelerating the process but developing new Krakoan or Mutant traditions shouldn't make the culture less than older ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Are you angry because your headcanon of what is Krakoa is not true?

    Kitty Pryde wears her Star of David around her neck at Quiet Council meetings. Magneto, on the other hand, no longer identifies as a religious Jew.

    They can choose.
    Choice seems to be the key benefit, so far. Now that they're not constantly being attacked, ostracized and murdered by humans, their killer robots, evil Mutants, and inhumans, everyone is free to develop and discover different aspects of their identity. Kitty, Kurt, Dani, etc., can hold onto theirs while others may evolve their own.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Krakoa was created by Charles, Magneto and Moira LITERALLY to fight assimilation, in this case by the dominions.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Exactly, it is absurd to accuse a culture of being "an artificial construct". They all are.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Exactly, it is absurd to accuse a culture of being "an artificial construct". They all are.
    More than “artificial”, if you consider culture as something “unnatural”, you can say “orchestrated by a gouvernment” and “forced on citizens”.

    I think that all Krakoans have a different definition of what Krakoa is or should become. In a democracy, it should be the subject to a debate.

    But, as it is comics, I prefer to think that all writers have a vision that is significantly different.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    More than “artificial”, if you consider culture as something “unnatural”, you can say “orchestrated by a gouvernment” and “forced on citizens”.

    I think that all Krakoans have a different definition of what Krakoa is or should become. In a democracy, it should be the subject to a debate.

    But, as it is comics, I prefer to think that all writers have a vision that is significantly different.
    All cultures are, at least to some extent, orchestrated by a government and forced on citizens. Every government feeds it's citizens from birth to death a spoonful of ideas, exaggerations, bullshit and outright lies about themselves, their country, their citizens and the rest of the world, and punishes those that question it (though of course authoritarian countries do prescribe much harsher penalties), whether it's by prison, death, shaming or more subtle ways of coercion. Krakoa is, if anything more laissez-faire than most, in part because it's very young.

  10. #10
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Kinda hard to take it seriously when the first post starts with a lie, eh
    Dani says that human institutions aren't built to last. Which is absolutely true, they've been built to exploit the lower class and benefit the privileged ones. Which isn't the definition of something that can actually last.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  11. #11
    Fantastic Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    She just means that being proud of her heritage isn't a thing that changed because she's now part of a nation for mutants. An important point since ppl were accusing writers of erasing characters' backgrounds/religion/culture without any text to back it up
    I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

    I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well
    Last edited by gonnagiveittoya; 11-26-2020 at 05:17 PM.

  12. #12
    Incredible Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

    I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well
    The inconsistency makes sense, it's still a new nation trying to define itself.
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  13. #13
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

    I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well
    Non-X books are more inconsistent because those are being told from the viewpoint of nonmutant outsiders, whether heroes or civilians, who see what mutants are doing as a kind of dangerously radical separatism rooted in a sense of superiority to and antagonism toward humanity, i.e. the same humanity that violently rejected mutants as kindred, even to the point of repeated attempts at genocide. Therefore, it's baked into the cake, so to speak, that those books would be presenting a more jaundiced perspective on Krakoa, biased by resentment, whether conscious or unconscious, of mutants' newfound security and power on the world stage as opposed to being under constant, unrelenting threat of persecution from humanity at large. Granted, there is a lot to look sideways at Krakoa for, but the attempt by mutants to secure a better future and world for themselves that doesn't require them to constantly run, hide, and fight for the sake of their survival in and of itself shouldn't be quite as controversial as it's become.
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  14. #14
    Fantastic Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    The inconsistency makes sense, it's still a new nation trying to define itself.
    I mean inconsistency from writer to writer. Sometimes humans are allowed on Krakoa, and sometimes all humans are totally banned without exception, even to other heroes/allies
    Last edited by gonnagiveittoya; 11-26-2020 at 08:38 PM.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Non-X books are more inconsistent because those are being told from the viewpoint of nonmutant outsiders, whether heroes or civilians, who see what mutants are doing as a kind of dangerously radical separatism rooted in a sense of superiority to and antagonism toward humanity, i.e. the same humanity that violently rejected mutants as kindred, even to the point of repeated attempts at genocide. Therefore, it's baked into the cake, so to speak, that those books would be presenting a more jaundiced perspective on Krakoa, biased by resentment, whether conscious or unconscious, of mutants' newfound security and power on the world stage as opposed to being under constant, unrelenting threat of persecution from humanity at large. Granted, there is a lot to look sideways at Krakoa for, but the attempt by mutants to secure a better future and world for themselves that doesn't require them to constantly run, hide, and fight for the sake of their survival in and of itself shouldn't be quite as controversial as it's become.
    Actually, the books outside of the X office with non-mutant characters usually portray Krakoa in a better light than the actual X books. Came up in Captain America, that She-Hulk tie in, and so on. In the X books its super inconsistent. Storm's ties to her African heritage were thrown away, while Kitty and Magneto's Jewist roots were heavily emphasized while the bad writing mishhandled it. As soon as Russia became an enemy all Russian mutants were rounded up to be paraded as traitors. Krakoa is such a weird case because they explicitly want to take over the world, just not through open warfare. So it kind of doubles down on the 'us vs them' kind of thinking, so these kinds of 'which are you?' conversations are inevitable. So its really inconsistent and easy to see why people see it both ways.

    It doesn't help that this mutant culture we are told about hasn't really happened. Its a serious case of writers telling instead of showing. And frankly, its something I don't think the writers have the time or patience to do it well or properly, which is why so much of their culture is just Council fiat.

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