"Krakoa isn't about assimilation"?

[LordUltimus]

Really? Literally everything we’ve seen of Krakoa involves the Government forcing an artificially constructed and induced culture built on erasing, shaming and belittling anything even remotely human-adjacent except when that’s convenient for them. Didn't Dani herself comment on how humans have built nothing of value in the first issue of New Mutants?

(And while arguably all cultures spend some time separating what they are from neighboring cultures that they are not, some of them are a lot more... into that than others.)

[nandes]

She just means that being proud of her heritage isn't a thing that changed because she's now part of a nation for mutants. An important point since ppl were accusing writers of erasing characters' backgrounds/religion/culture without any text to back it up

[gonnagiveittoya]

She just means that being proud of her heritage isn't a thing that changed because she's now part of a nation for mutants. An important point since ppl were accusing writers of erasing characters' backgrounds/religion/culture without any text to back it up

I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well

[OopsIdiditagain]

I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well

The inconsistency makes sense, it's still a new nation trying to define itself.

[gonnagiveittoya]

The inconsistency makes sense, it's still a new nation trying to define itself.

I mean inconsistency from writer to writer. Sometimes humans are allowed on Krakoa, and sometimes all humans are totally banned without exception, even to other heroes/allies

[Huntsman Spider]

I mean Nightcrawler literally joined/created a new religion so

I do think the general philosophy of Krakoa is inconsistent both between the X-Books as well as from non-X books as well

Non-X books are more inconsistent because those are being told from the viewpoint of nonmutant outsiders, whether heroes or civilians, who see what mutants are doing as a kind of dangerously radical separatism rooted in a sense of superiority to and antagonism toward humanity, i.e. the same humanity that violently rejected mutants as kindred, even to the point of repeated attempts at genocide. Therefore, it's baked into the cake, so to speak, that those books would be presenting a more jaundiced perspective on Krakoa, biased by resentment, whether conscious or unconscious, of mutants' newfound security and power on the world stage as opposed to being under constant, unrelenting threat of persecution from humanity at large. Granted, there is a lot to look sideways at Krakoa for, but the attempt by mutants to secure a better future and world for themselves that doesn't require them to constantly run, hide, and fight for the sake of their survival in and of itself shouldn't be quite as controversial as it's become.

[pkingdom]

Non-X books are more inconsistent because those are being told from the viewpoint of nonmutant outsiders, whether heroes or civilians, who see what mutants are doing as a kind of dangerously radical separatism rooted in a sense of superiority to and antagonism toward humanity, i.e. the same humanity that violently rejected mutants as kindred, even to the point of repeated attempts at genocide. Therefore, it's baked into the cake, so to speak, that those books would be presenting a more jaundiced perspective on Krakoa, biased by resentment, whether conscious or unconscious, of mutants' newfound security and power on the world stage as opposed to being under constant, unrelenting threat of persecution from humanity at large. Granted, there is a lot to look sideways at Krakoa for, but the attempt by mutants to secure a better future and world for themselves that doesn't require them to constantly run, hide, and fight for the sake of their survival in and of itself shouldn't be quite as controversial as it's become.

Actually, the books outside of the X office with non-mutant characters usually portray Krakoa in a better light than the actual X books. Came up in Captain America, that She-Hulk tie in, and so on. In the X books its super inconsistent. Storm's ties to her African heritage were thrown away, while Kitty and Magneto's Jewist roots were heavily emphasized while the bad writing mishhandled it. As soon as Russia became an enemy all Russian mutants were rounded up to be paraded as traitors. Krakoa is such a weird case because they explicitly want to take over the world, just not through open warfare. So it kind of doubles down on the 'us vs them' kind of thinking, so these kinds of 'which are you?' conversations are inevitable. So its really inconsistent and easy to see why people see it both ways.

It doesn't help that this mutant culture we are told about hasn't really happened. Its a serious case of writers telling instead of showing. And frankly, its something I don't think the writers have the time or patience to do it well or properly, which is why so much of their culture is just Council fiat.

[TooFlyToFail]

Actually, the books outside of the X office with non-mutant characters usually portray Krakoa in a better light than the actual X books. Came up in Captain America, that She-Hulk tie in, and so on. In the X books its super inconsistent. Storm's ties to her African heritage were thrown away, while Kitty and Magneto's Jewist roots were heavily emphasized while the bad writing mishhandled it. As soon as Russia became an enemy all Russian mutants were rounded up to be paraded as traitors. Krakoa is such a weird case because they explicitly want to take over the world, just not through open warfare. So it kind of doubles down on the 'us vs them' kind of thinking, so these kinds of 'which are you?' conversations are inevitable. So its really inconsistent and easy to see why people see it both ways.

It doesn't help that this mutant culture we are told about hasn't really happened. Its a serious case of writers telling instead of showing. And frankly, its something I don't think the writers have the time or patience to do it well or properly, which is why so much of their culture is just Council fiat.

The mutants don't have a culture, at least not the Krakoans. Maybe the Arrakii mutants do, so there's that. However, like Magneto said in X-Men #4, they're going to act like the rest of the world, but more efficient and tell you to your face that they're better.

Dani says that humans never made anything of worth, yet everything they've done to solidify their country's positions is straight out of the human play book. They want to have their cake, after having eaten it. They refuse to admit that they're just as bad. Just as human.

Also, they're a powerful nation of the next stage of human evolution (in the short-term, anyway, before the humans merge with the machines and proceed to curbstomp). Even if there wasn't a history of hate, most other countries would be wary, distrustful and preparing defenses. It's how the world and humans work. They should know, since they're still human.

[frostedemma]

Creating a new Mutant-Krakoan culture isn't the same as assimilation. The only thing that's really being forced on mutants is the new Krakoa language that is automatically downloaded in their mind once they pass a gate. Nowhere was it stated that you must leave all your culture and heritage behind once you choice to live on Krakoa. Some mutants choice to leave all of it behind because of the persecution, pain and ostracisation they've suffered and start anew but it isn't true for all mutants. From what we've seen throughout the books and across issues is that new rituals have been created (resurrection protocols, crucible and etc) and mutants can pick and choose what part of Krakoa they want to adopt, mutants can still live outside of Krakoa if they choose, they can still come and go ass they please, and they're free to practise whatever religion or culture they want. The only rules they're obligated to follow are the Krakoan laws of no killing any life. Kitty getting a viking funeral instead of a Shiva and no Kaddish recital has more to do with the writer being non jewish and not doing any sort of research on jewish funeral and rites than Krakoa assimilation.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Non-X books are more inconsistent because those are being told from the viewpoint of nonmutant outsiders, whether heroes or civilians, who see what mutants are doing as a kind of dangerously radical separatism rooted in a sense of superiority to and antagonism toward humanity, i.e. the same humanity that violently rejected mutants as kindred, even to the point of repeated attempts at genocide. (Snipped for length)

Except those inconsistencies are coming from mutant characters in non x books. Stuff characters like Wolverine and Xavier say in non x books don't gel with what other actual X books say. It feels like every writer got different notes on what Krakoa is

Back to my earlier point, it does feel a bit inconsistent (if the intended message is "no we aren't removing characters backgrounds and replacing them with 'Krakoan' now") it doesn't feel consistent across the board with characters like Nightcrawler giving up Catholicism and them cremating a prominent Jewish hero

[silvercover]

It’s a religion that encompasses the beliefs of others, as shown in Marauders when Kurt notes that Kate’s 18th attempt (linked to life/חַי in Judaism) is when she was brought back. Weird to make assumptions on a concept we barely know about besides psalms we get in Hellions issues.

religion can also change and develop, remember that christianity and islam had the same roots before and still have some similarities but they are now separate religions.

[gonnagiveittoya]

It’s a religion that encompasses the beliefs of others, as shown in Marauders when Kurt notes that Kate’s 18th attempt (linked to life/חַי in Judaism) is when she was brought back. Weird to make assumptions on a concept we barely know about besides psalms we get in Hellions issues.

Assumptions are the only things I can make since they haven't really explained anything. You're making just as many assumptions as I am about it. And whatever it is, it's hard to see him founding a new religion still mean he's a member of a different religion he's specifically trying to replace

[gonnagiveittoya]

It might take influence from other religions but that wouldn't make it not a different religion.

[Omega Alpha]

It might take influence from other religions but that wouldn't make it not a different religion.

Pretty much every religion has influence of others.

[babyblob]

What I have noticed when reading the new comics (granted I am only six issues into the Dawn of X titles so take this for what you want.) Is how dependent everyone is on Krakoa for everything. The drugs the mutants sell, their tech, the gates, I mean everything. I would love to see this as a plot by Krakoa to make mutants so dependent on him that they grow weaker. like a plot for Krakoa to take over or something. maybe do some subtle mind controlling in the food and water to make mutants more aggressive or amplify their anger towards normal humans or something.