"Krakoa isn't about assimilation"?

[Chessboxer]

It lacked more discussion for sure. Then we have him being part of government and they gave him a team of "misfits" with some mental health problems. Like WTH mutants think they are doing?
Sinister has too much freedom to do what he wants, somebody would think they would watch him closer

I think this might have to do with the fact Xavier put Sinister under his psychic control from Power of X(#4). Any of Sinister's endeavours are to be geared towards Xaviers' goals. I think its going to backfire terribly, but that's the only reason I think he's given a long leash since any 'work' Sinister is doing is to be co-opted by Xavier.

[SiegePerilous02]

There's not much about the current going ons that you could really say are the 'most reasonable/realistic solution'. Just look at how much of what's going on is based on deceit, for starters.

Xavier and Magneto are in charge and they are both bad or at least very shady people, so lots deceit is to be expected from them in their ends justify the means approach. Its reasonable from the perspective of a plan put together by them plus Moira of all people

[Steel Inquisitor]

They all disrespected him at the Council scene in Hellions and didn't believe his act for a minute. That's not evidence they are blindly accepting him. You also say he's being treated as a saint, but I'm sorry that's not being supported remotely by the text. They are using him/tolerating him out of need, not accepting him. That may be a valid issue people have trouble buying, but saying "accepting" is just not accurate.

Sinister's been turned into a comic relief villain in the Council, like I said - he's Uncle Fester. He should be vastly more distrusted then he is, it's difficult to explain exactly how much lives he's ruined for people personally on the Council and mutant kind as a whole but all that's glossed over. They gave him far too respect then he needed, like listening to his ideas about the Hellions over Cyclops' objections. People should be far more uncomfortable with him on the island and in the Quiet Council, that should have been a deal breaker for the Morlocks.

They could be plotting against him behind his back or have protocols against his likely betrayal. The narrative hasn't revealed that yet, doesn't mean it wont.

But why would this be off-screen? Everyone knows who Sinister is and it'd be in character for them to do this. Characters like Jean Grey and Scott Summers should be all over this.

The majority of the MU populace is at best apathetic to the oppression mutants generally face. There are exceptions like Emma, but as a rule the average mutant who has benign powers or just looks a little different is likely to get mob violence done against them or something. The amnesty is in effect, the mutants need to depend on each other for their latest venture and their "start from square one needs to apply to everyone or no one" is necessary for the complex task of building a nation.

That's more due to editorial jurisdiction then anything else, it's disingenuous to assume that because non-X-men characters aren't condemning mutant oppression they're ok with it. By that logic the X-men don't care whenever New York City gets nuked by whatever villain is in Avengers this month. They certainly don't show any empathy for the NuInhumans getting wiped out. Sure, what about the millions of mutant victims to the mutant villains over the years? Many of which are on the Quiet Council. Amnesty is a political act, it won't stop the past being the past or how someone feels about someone ruining their life. The things the villains have done to most of the people in Krakao shouldn't make everything so relaxed. These people literally murdered them and more. The mutant Genoshans who had scores to settle with Magneto are nowhere to be found, where are they? Emma herself should be incredibly controversial since her tenure leading New Tien. Where are the victims of her brain washing?

The narrative has been clear that Krakoa has shady aspects...just like any nation. It is not firmly putting them into a hero/villain category because that is not the type of story this is. They are doing things that make us uncomfortable and asking us uncomfortable questions, but that is what makes it better than a straight hero vs. villain story. As for the Crucible, I see no evidence to suggest they are worried about what the outside world thinks of it. It is for them as a people first and foremost, not anyone else. They are still working it out themselves, and need time to get their house in order (not a remotely unreasonable thing to want), but they aren't going to be ashamed of it for the sake of what outsider's think. Kurt and Logan are iffy on it, but not necessarily for that reason.

Calling's Krakoa's government shady is an understatement. Most nations don't do things like conquer other nations and put in crazy puppet kings and commit genocide within six months. Sure it is, that's what Hickman does with epics like this. He picks sides, he knows who's the bad guy. The characters don't but they never saw themselves as villain when they do villainous things. But the characters who do things are not shown in good light, like Apocalypse dissecting a live Morgan Le Faye for his magic system and manipulating Betsy into fighting Brian to the death to win the war against Avalon. Except they're not that uncomfortable with how they do things, and the people they're working with, as they should be. Most of the mutants on the island have been victims of the villains directly or indirectly all their lives. The fact they're hiding what the Crucible is from the outside world speaks volumes of how they perceive the outside world would rect to it: as in, poorly. And nobody says anything to anyone outside Krakoa, no-one. We know what it's for but it's all Apocalypse religious/nationalism trappings masquerading as a stop gap for resurrected mutants, that isn't say it's right. No, they're not "working on it" they chose the Crucible in that form and did nothing more, its staying as is and is a law in Krakoa. With barely any pushback from the X-men. They can get their house in order without making cult rituals that end with Apocalypse murdering kids in a grand arena. They shouldn't feel shame because outsiders feel like that (and the "outsiders" thing is very cult like in mentality) they should feel shame because of their humanity - they're supposed to be a nation, not a branch of Scientology. The X-men before Krakao would have stood up to Apcoalyspe and made sure this didn't happen, they'd be ashamed of participating in that and if they couldn't stop it themselves they'd call in back-up for their non-mutant friends.

Moira X is not set up to be a perfect saint who we can rule out as an unreliable narrator. Neither are Xavier and Magneto who have more than enough of a shady history between them, which is why their actions in this story really aren't as OOC as people claim. If they are keeping this information from people, it's highly possible it's being set up to see it bite them in the ass. Cyclops has already acted against their wishes, and it might end with Krakoa under his leadership with the more problematic members either out in the cold or in the pit with Creed.

Xavier is someone who should had Mr. Fantastic on speed dial the second he knew about this. Mutant kind, and humanity as a whole is in danger, and Xavier not telling anyone, even his students, is horribly out of character. He's done secretive things in the past but this is outside the scope of why he does that. Cyclops for most of his tenure has been following Xavier like a puppy. Cracks are starting to show, but they shouldn't have taken this long to get where they are today. Which makes me think he might not have all the memories of Cyclops before Krakao.

You say Mother Mold only saw in binary and not grey, but respectfully you are approaching this story in a similar way and it doesn't quite work. It's a grey story with no clear good guys or bad guys that is meant to spark discussion, which is what the line desperately needed to prevent it from going through the numbers over and over again and becoming septic. Like it did shortly before Morrison took over.

Sure it works, Hickman is making the X-men do horrible things so I'm going to call them out on it. This story is far from grey, there are grey characters in it but their are incredibly bad ones acting in plain sight and they're hardly being pushed back as much as they should be. Hickman keeping the concept fresh has nothing to with the Krakao era being "grey," and even if it did it is not a good excuse to keep the status quo going. Characters being evil in Krakao who were evil before Krakao isn't much change. Septic? What? The franchise has its problems but it was in no danger of getting cancelled, the X-men franchise ebbs and flows with quality, that's just comic books.

[BroHomo]

Xavier and Magneto are in charge and they are both bad or at least very shady people, so lots deceit is to be expected from them in their ends justify the means approach. Its reasonable from the perspective of a plan put together by them plus Moira of all people

How DaFuq is Xavier bad?~

[SiegePerilous02]

How DaFuq is Xavier bad?~

Sleeping with Gabrielle Haller was pretty skeevy

[SiegePerilous02]

Sinister's been turned into a comic relief villain in the Council, like I said - he's Uncle Fester. He should be vastly more distrusted then he is, it's difficult to explain exactly how much lives he's ruined for people personally on the Council and mutant kind as a whole but all that's glossed over. They gave him far too respect then he needed, like listening to his ideas about the Hellions over Cyclops' objections. People should be far more uncomfortable with him on the island and in the Quiet Council, that should have been a deal breaker for the Morlocks.



But why would this be off-screen? Everyone knows who Sinister is and it'd be in character for them to do this. Characters like Jean Grey and Scott Summers should be all over this.





That's more due to editorial jurisdiction then anything else, it's disingenuous to assume that because non-X-men characters aren't condemning mutant oppression they're ok with it. By that logic the X-men don't care whenever New York City gets nuked by whatever villain is in Avengers this month. They certainly don't show any empathy for the NuInhumans getting wiped out. Sure, what about the millions of mutant victims to the mutant villains over the years? Many of which are on the Quiet Council. Amnesty is a political act, it won't stop the past being the past or how someone feels about someone ruining their life. The things the villains have done to most of the people in Krakao shouldn't make everything so relaxed. These people literally murdered them and more. The mutant Genoshans who had scores to settle with Magneto are nowhere to be found, where are they? Emma herself should be incredibly controversial since her tenure leading New Tien. Where are the victims of her brain washing?



Calling's Krakoa's government shady is an understatement. Most nations don't do things like conquer other nations and put in crazy puppet kings and commit genocide within six months. Sure it is, that's what Hickman does with epics like this. He picks sides, he knows who's the bad guy. The characters don't but they never saw themselves as villain when they do villainous things. But the characters who do things are not shown in good light, like Apocalypse dissecting a live Morgan Le Faye for his magic system and manipulating Betsy into fighting Brian to the death to win the war against Avalon. Except they're not that uncomfortable with how they do things, and the people they're working with, as they should be. Most of the mutants on the island have been victims of the villains directly or indirectly all their lives. The fact they're hiding what the Crucible is from the outside world speaks volumes of how they perceive the outside world would rect to it: as in, poorly. And nobody says anything to anyone outside Krakoa, no-one. We know what it's for but it's all Apocalypse religious/nationalism trappings masquerading as a stop gap for resurrected mutants, that isn't say it's right. No, they're not "working on it" they chose the Crucible in that form and did nothing more, its staying as is and is a law in Krakoa. With barely any pushback from the X-men. They can get their house in order without making cult rituals that end with Apocalypse murdering kids in a grand arena. They shouldn't feel shame because outsiders feel like that (and the "outsiders" thing is very cult like in mentality) they should feel shame because of their humanity - they're supposed to be a nation, not a branch of Scientology. The X-men before Krakao would have stood up to Apcoalyspe and made sure this didn't happen, they'd be ashamed of participating in that and if they couldn't stop it themselves they'd call in back-up for their non-mutant friends.





Xavier is someone who should had Mr. Fantastic on speed dial the second he knew about this. Mutant kind, and humanity as a whole is in danger, and Xavier not telling anyone, even his students, is horribly out of character. He's done secretive things in the past but this is outside the scope of why he does that. Cyclops for most of his tenure has been following Xavier like a puppy. Cracks are starting to show, but they shouldn't have taken this long to get where they are today. Which makes me think he might not have all the memories of Cyclops before Krakao.



Sure it works, Hickman is making the X-men do horrible things so I'm going to call them out on it. This story is far from grey, there are grey characters in it but their are incredibly bad ones acting in plain sight and they're hardly being pushed back as much as they should be. Hickman keeping the concept fresh has nothing to with the Krakao era being "grey," and even if it did it is not a good excuse to keep the status quo going. Characters being evil in Krakao who were evil before Krakao isn't much change. Septic? What? The franchise has its problems but it was in no danger of getting cancelled, the X-men franchise ebbs and flows with quality, that's just comic books.

What are the X-Men doing that is so evil? Note that sinister is not an X man

The Crucible doesnt count because its all about resurrextion in a battle the participant consents to. Its not murder, the text doesnt support that.

Does anyone know what Apocalypse did to Morgane?

[CoCoBandz]

What are the X-Men doing that is so evil? Note that sinister is not an X man

The Crucible doesnt count because its all about resurrextion in a battle the participant consents to. Its not murder, the text doesnt support that.

Does anyone know what Apocalypse did to Morgane?

He cut the noisy wench open like a greased pig. She deserved worse tbh.

[SiegePerilous02]

He cut the noisy wench open like a greased pig. She deserved worse tbh.

Do any of the other X-characters (at least the typically heroic ones) know that though? I lost interest in Excalibur after the first arc, so I'm not sure if it came up.

Similarly I dropped X-Force to really focus on only a few X-Books that held my interest (Hickman's stuff, Hellions and S.W.X.R.D), but I'm aware Beast is acting pretty villainous there. But from what little I know, he's mostly acting on his own and gets called out by people when they get the full picture. And this unfortunately isn't new for Beast, even if I wish they'd drop this crap and go back to his 70s/80s characterization.

[baxer]

He cut the noisy wench open like a greased pig. She deserved worse tbh.

As if Apocalypse is any better.

I think this might have to do with the fact Xavier put Sinister under his psychic control from Power of X(#4). Any of Sinister's endeavours are to be geared towards Xaviers' goals. I think its going to backfire terribly, but that's the only reason I think he's given a long leash since any 'work' Sinister is doing is to be co-opted by Xavier.

Xavier knows about the many Sinister clones?
Xavier is too arrogant and Sinister always slips away. He is doing many things behind Xavier back that seems unaware of all his dealings.

[Zelena]

Xavier is too arrogant and Sinister always slips away. He is doing many things behind Xavier back that seems unaware of all his dealings.

Doesn’t Xavier have this big helmet to enhance his capacities? What could he ignore?

[Glio]

Sinister is also a telepath. Also, Xavier doesn't do an exhaustive telepathic exam on everyone all the time.

[baxer]

Sinister is also a telepath. Also, Xavier doesn't do an exhaustive telepathic exam on everyone all the time.

He already thinks Sinister is under control and knows about when the treason happened on another life. Xavier is fairly onfident that nothing will go wrong...but it is Sinister

[pkingdom]

Do any of the other X-characters (at least the typically heroic ones) know that though? I lost interest in Excalibur after the first arc, so I'm not sure if it came up.

Similarly I dropped X-Force to really focus on only a few X-Books that held my interest (Hickman's stuff, Hellions and S.W.X.R.D), but I'm aware Beast is acting pretty villainous there. But from what little I know, he's mostly acting on his own and gets called out by people when they get the full picture. And this unfortunately isn't new for Beast, even if I wish they'd drop this crap and go back to his 70s/80s characterization.

I honestly don't know if anyone besides Jaimie knows what Apocalypse did, but as for Beast, he committed genocide and at least Jean knows. So if she didn't tell anyone that kind of makes her into a monster. He got a lecture and got thrown around, but hasn't suffered any consequences. Then there's the whole parade of shame thing.

[From The Shadows]

Do any of the other X-characters (at least the typically heroic ones) know that though? I lost interest in Excalibur after the first arc, so I'm not sure if it came up.

Similarly I dropped X-Force to really focus on only a few X-Books that held my interest (Hickman's stuff, Hellions and S.W.X.R.D), but I'm aware Beast is acting pretty villainous there. But from what little I know, he's mostly acting on his own and gets called out by people when they get the full picture. And this unfortunately isn't new for Beast, even if I wish they'd drop this crap and go back to his 70s/80s characterization.

Even 90s and early 2000's. Is there a reason why more people don't want this? And are determined this is the true Beast? Other than they don't like retcons (that doesn't seem to usually be the case). I mean people who have read him before should know that is not how he always was but they usually mention OOC behavior for others?

[Glio]

I honestly don't know if anyone besides Jaimie knows what Apocalypse did, but as for Beast, he committed genocide and at least Jean knows. So if she didn't tell anyone that kind of makes her into a monster. He got a lecture and got thrown around, but hasn't suffered any consequences. Then there's the whole parade of shame thing.

We still don't know if those people were left unconscious or dead.