View Poll Results: Will the Crucible be scrapped or continued?

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  • The Crucible will continue

    35 61.40%
  • The Crucible will be replaced

    22 38.60%
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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    There just gonna write it out Hickman wrote X-men 7 in a rush to answer fan theories it was the first issue he wrote after the series went for sake the minis and first 6 were all set to go before launch to avoid delays. It’s him trying to explain things and failing cause he did not think people would care. Read his interviews he hates talking about the resurrections because there is nothing there it’s just an idea he and the other writers came up with to use characters they wanted without explanation.
    If this is the case, I'm shocked he made such a big deal about such a great concept....to literally do nothing with it. Just so writers can use their favorites? Jeezus....

    I hope this isn't the case.

  2. #32
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    The Crucible is a horrifying concept; especially when there is nothing about the "resurrection" process to suggest actual resurrection.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  3. #33
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    There just gonna write it out Hickman wrote X-men 7 in a rush to answer fan theories it was the first issue he wrote after the series went for sake the minis and first 6 were all set to go before launch to avoid delays. It’s him trying to explain things and failing cause he did not think people would care. Read his interviews he hates talking about the resurrections because there is nothing there it’s just an idea he and the other writers came up with to use characters they wanted without explanation.
    because jonathan hickman, the writer who does not like talking about his work or interacting with fans, definitely would waste his time writing a story to explain a concept that he already explained for people who can't read, and then that story meant to explain what was already explained would kick off a new plotline instead of explaining it again
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    The Crucible is a horrifying concept; especially when there is nothing about the "resurrection" process to suggest actual resurrection.
    If it is not resurrection then why does dying in Otherworld affect it

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    If it is not resurrection then why does dying in Otherworld affect it
    Corrupts the backup, I'd guess; but if it were actual transmigration you wouldn't need the backup to begin with.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    Corrupts the backup, I'd guess; but if it were actual transmigration you wouldn't need the backup to begin with.
    The Omniversal Majestrix alludes to the process as resurrection when speaking of how dying in Otherworld denies resurrection.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The Omniversal Majestrix alludes to the process as resurrection when speaking of how dying in Otherworld denies resurrection.
    I have not read X of Swords, so I can not comment on anything specific Saturnyne said; but it what Krakoa calls it, so why would she call it anything else unless she wanted to make an argument about it?

    Cerebro periodically makes a backup copy, said copy is downloaded into an organic shell if the original dies; end of process. The copies have no memories of the time after the last backup; Ain't nothing here to suggest piercing the veil of the netherworlds to reclaim lost souls, just a Xerox machine.
    Last edited by Nazrel; 11-29-2020 at 01:37 PM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    I have not read X of Swords, so I can not comment on anything specific Saturnyne said; but it what Krakoa calls it, so why would she call it anything else unless she wanted to make an argument about it?

    Cerebro periodically makes a backup copy, said copy is downloaded into an organic shell if the original dies; end of process. The copies have no memories of the time after the last backup; Ain't no no piercing the veil of the netherworlds to reclaim lost souls here, just a Xerox machine.
    The point is that if dying in Otherworld affects the process, that means that there is a direct connection between the person who dies and the memories stored in Cerebro, even if they are earlier.

    If the person who dies and the copies of Cerebro were totally independent of each other, it would not matter where they died. The only possible conclusion is that there is a connection of a mystical, spiritual nature or whatever you want to call it.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The point is that if dying in Otherworld affects the process, that means that there is a direct relationship between the person who dies and the memories stored in Cerebro, even if they are earlier.

    If the person who dies and the copies of Cerebro were totally independent of each other, it would not matter where they died. The only possible conclusion is that there is a connection of a mystical, spiritual nature or whatever you want to call it.
    Or the process is automated (which it would have to be) and it keeps trying to make copies even when they're in the otherworld; and the simple work around of just stopping the backup process while they're in the otherworld would defeat the point of the plot element, which was the artificial inflation of threat.

    You might be right; in the end of the day it will be whatever the writers say it is (should they choose to do so), because fiction is just one big lie, and lies don't need to makes sense (just the good ones do); but again, there is nothing about the actual process to remotely suggest that, everything about it says Xerox machine.
    Last edited by Nazrel; 11-29-2020 at 01:58 PM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    Or the process is automated (which it would have to be) and it keeps trying to make copies even when they're in the otherworld; and the simple work around of just stopping the backup process while they're in the otherworld would defeat the point of the plot element, which was the artificial inflation of threat.

    You might be right; in the end of the day it will be whatever the writers say it is (should they choose to do so), because fiction is just one big lie, and lies don't need to makes sense (just the good ones do); but again, there is nothing about the actual process to remotely suggest that, everything about it says Xerox machine.
    It can't be what you're saying because Cerebro has no reach in Otherworld (Xavier himself says making Earth-Otherworld telepathic contact is incredibly difficult and is surprised when Jean succeeds).

    And also, we know that Cerebro is not trying to continuously update itself automatically, it is something that Xavier does manually at specific intervals of time. This is why when mutants die they have memory lapses, it is highly unlikely that you will die exactly after Xavier has made your backup.

    Furthermore, the backup corruption process occurred at the exact moment of the resurrection attempt, not the death. For a few seconds Santo came back to life but "reality" erased him. The failed resurrection also affected the special connection the Five have with each other, implying that it's not just something strictly biological that they're doing.

  11. #41
    Mighty Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    It can't be what you're saying because Cerebro has no reach in Otherworld (Xavier himself says making Earth-Otherworld telepathic contact is incredibly difficult and is surprised when Jean succeeds).

    And also, we know that Cerebro is not trying to continuously update itself automatically, it is something that Xavier does manually at specific intervals of time. This is why when mutants die they have memory lapses, it is highly unlikely that you will die exactly after Xavier has made your backup.

    Furthermore, the backup corruption process occurred at the exact moment of the resurrection attempt, not the death. For a few seconds Santo came back to life but "reality" erased him. The failed resurrection also affected the special connection the Five have with each other, implying that it's not just something strictly biological that they're doing.
    Yes I did see that preview, where whatever was being created asked "Who's Santo?"

    So... Why would something not Santo being resurrected have different memories then Santo, if it was using Santos backup, if they have different memories then why wouldn't people get their non backed up memories back? Again, why the backup in the first place, if this involves actual transmigration? It doesn't make sense.

    But like I said, doesn't need to, it's a lie; at the end of the day, it'll be whatever the writers say it is.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    Yes I did see that preview, where whatever was being created asked "Who's Santo?"

    So... Why would something not Santo being resurrected have different memories then Santo, if it was using Santos backup, if they have different memories then why wouldn't people get their non backed up memories back? Again, why the backup in the first place, if this involves actual transmigration? It doesn't make sense.

    But like I said, doesn't need to, it's a lie; at the end of the day, it'll be whatever the writers say it is.
    At the initial moment of the resurrection, Santo says "professor", clearly identifies Xavier. He is corrupted moments later.

    The thing is, Otherworld corrupts all the existing backups in all the existing Cerebro out there when a failed resurrection is done and completely overwrites any traces of the original backups. This is because Otherworld is the nexus of the entire multiverse and when someone dies there, it causes problems.

    So, in short: Dying in Otherworld affects resurrection because it is a magical place.

  13. #43
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    To my mind ,because Nightcrawler is still writing his 'Krakoan bible' it may very well be informed by the ethics and spirituality (or lack thereof)of the crucible.So as a running theme it will pop up.When Apoc was on Krakoa he was the oldest council member, now Exodus has that claim and equally can become the new Crucible executioner

  14. #44
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    Think Apocalypse should be replaced with Bei. She is a veteran warrior and would have no reason to go easy on any mutant as she comes from a world where the strong survive.

  15. #45
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Maraurders addressed this today. spoilers:
    Silver Samurai has replaced Apocalypse, although it seems mutants can make special requests. Callisto fought Storm for example. Had she not done so, Fenris volunteered
    end of spoilers

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