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  1. #31
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Speaking of Bette, she goes by Hawkfire or Flamebird nowadays?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Including her is almost like including a completly new character:

    - She has no established relation ship with any of the other Batgirls (or really any Batfamily member out side of Kate).

    - She was allready pre Flashpoint in a wired place continuity wise, and now it is probably even messier

    I also don't think she really adds much to the team, since there is imo a lot of overlap with Steph.

    And due to the fact that she is about the same age as Dick (and there for Barbara) but on the other side probably way less experienced and trained than Cass and Steph, I don't really see what role shr should have on the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    And they have still nowhere near the relation Cass has with Steph and Barbara.
    You put Bette on the title and you will have to give her a lot of page time, to build her up.

    And i don't mind adding more characters later on, but I think it is usually better with a small team and than add more characters later on, than to directly start with a larger team.
    A completely new character that originated the role, or at least a version of it. Her relationship with a the role of Batgirl establishes enough to justify her inclusion at least some capacity. There's a lot of overlap with all these characters in general, as that comes with the role, but Bette at least has a unique claim. Like i said im not really even for this idea, but it'd be an odd precedent to gatekeep it from Bette.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-02-2020 at 03:55 PM.

  3. #33
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Barbara Gordon - Batgirl Prime: mission control, rarely in the field. she should be Oracle but that ID feels disingenuous with her walking around and what not. Oracle was a triumph over a tragic incident, undoing the damage undercuts it a little imo.
    If it's still a name she used while paralyzed and is basically doing the same thing so I don't think it's disingenuous for her to still use it.

    I think the question is just how you balance someone who is nominally an active hero with a few other active heroes she is now acting in a supporting role too. Go for Peter Parker in Marvel Action Spider-Man?
    Ryan Wilder - Batwoman: newest member with the least experience still finding her footing. She'll start off as more of the heavy of the group, the hot-head brawler, but that'll start to be more refined as she starts to expand her niche into something more unique.
    It's funny you mention her. I'm looking at the teaser for her Batwoman and she seems to act more like a Batgirl.

  4. #34
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    Ya isn't that kind of backwards. If Oracle was a triumph over a tragic incident, then wouldn't needing the damage to be Oracle undercut that.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukiakari1203 View Post
    props for remembering bette, also she should fund the group because she's rich and she came first.

    I'd want the plot to be Bette, Babs, Cass, and Steph training Nell, Nissa, and Tiffany. Maybe add another protege for Cass?

    Bette mentors Tiffany
    Steph mentors Nell
    and Babs mentors Nissa
    I like how one says Bette is Batgirl Green, and the other Batgirl Red.

    why not both, tee-hee.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    She’ll be too busy forming the “League of Batwomen” with Kate Kane and Ryan Wilder.
    Yup. At least in imaginary stories and future stories, Bette has been a "Batwoman", even before Kate.
    ~ Oberon ~
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  7. #37
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Ya isn't that kind of backwards. If Oracle was a triumph over a tragic incident, then wouldn't needing the damage to be Oracle undercut that.
    the niche of Oracle was that she couldn't physically be in the field, so she found a new way to help. if she had became active again and was going by Oracle, sure the that would feel more like a natural progression, but once she discarded Oracle in favor of being Batgirl again the identity no longer holds the same weight. going back to it now feels like a cheap way to ape off of the emotional complexity of becoming and coming into her place as Oracle while removing the consequence of what happened. Barbara Gordon in a Bat suit doing backflips as an able-bodied Oracle is antithetical to the point of the differently-abled hero niche that made Oracle compelling; it's like making Batman a metahuman with bat powers.

    "hey kids, no matter what you can still be a hero...but if you wanna be a REAL hero you need all them limbs up and working, yerrd? so I hope you have a connect with a super effective miracle surgery"
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I hate that she went to West Point but maybe that could inform some difference between her and the other Batgirls...well, that and she probably has the biggest bank account of all of them.
    Despite *whatever* Bette was saving Batman and Robin and the original Batwoman

    long before most of the others on this list.

    We keep saying 'untrained' but I say, you're not really looking.

    She came to Gotham as Betty/Bat-girl, already with some moves, no doubt because she was rich and given lessons in athletics, Tennis, etc.

    Batwoman, Kathy trained her.

    Though not specifically shown, Batman must have certainly given her training.

    He would never have let her ride with them if he didn't.

    Bette has been at the wrong end of a plot device for most of her career, so it was sad that her update into Batwoman first volume downplayed any/most of her Titans or previous history.

    You will just have to go with what we know, and it does not make her unworthy.
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    the niche of Oracle was that she couldn't physically be in the field, so she found a new way to help. if she had became active again and was going by Oracle, sure the that would feel more like a natural progression, but once she discarded Oracle in favor of being Batgirl again the identity no longer holds the same weight. going back to it now feels like a cheap way to ape off of the emotional complexity of becoming and coming into her place as Oracle while removing the consequence of what happened. Barbara Gordon in a Bat suit doing backflips as an able-bodied Oracle is antithetical to the point of the differently-abled hero niche that made Oracle compelling; it's like making Batman a metahuman with bat powers.

    "hey kids, no matter what you can still be a hero...but if you wanna be a REAL hero you need all them limbs up and working, yerrd? so I hope you have a connect with a super effective miracle surgery"
    She triumphed over it yet it is what defined her and her niche. That doesn't make sense. Regardless of this perceived message, that somehow every other DC character is immune from. Needing to be differently-abled or the damage to be Oracle, turns Oracle into a damaged persona. Its not a triumph over it if it is what is apparently now necessary for Oracle to exist. The point is she doesn't need to be doing backflips regardless if she can or can not even do them.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-02-2020 at 04:52 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I would keep the title of the book simply "Batgirls" but I do like the idea of their in-universe/in-story name for their organization being "The League of Batgirls". I wouldn't have literally every one be Batgirls it's more a "Batwomen Society".

    Barbara Gordon - Batgirl Prime: mission control, rarely in the field. she should be Oracle but that ID feels disingenuous with her walking around and what not. Oracle was a triumph over a tragic incident, undoing the damage undercuts it a little imo.

    core team:
    Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown - Batgirls: these two will be the titular Batgirls of the title and the anchors of the book. Cass is the field leader while Steph acts as her right hand.

    Harper Row - Bluebird: She would be the techie/engineer dude of the group, like a Natasha Irons or Luke Fox or Tim Drake.

    Ryan Wilder - Batwoman: newest member with the least experience still finding her footing. She'll start off as more of the heavy of the group, the hot-head brawler, but that'll start to be more refined as she starts to expand her niche into something more unique.


    extended members/allies:
    Kate Kane - Brightbat (they gonna hate me, but hear me out): I would have The Colony return as a black ops outfit under A.R.G.U.S run by Kate to check (but actually to provide support to) the Batfamily. She would act as the Batfamily connect to the US government, providing intel for espionage and things like that. On a more personal level, she would also train and mentor Ryan Wilder as her successor and I would build that relationship in order to hopefully calm the sigma of simply being replaced. While not a costumed hero anymore, because she doesn't need to anymore as an government op, her codename should she be in the field is Brightbat. [note: I'm not saying she shouldn't be Batwoman, this is just how I'd make her and Ryan co-exist.]

    Bette Kane- Flamebird: I don't know much about her so I can't say what I would have her angle would be, but fuckit, the more the merrier.

    Helena Bertinelli- Huntress
    It seems Stephanie is pretty good with tech now. So, she will likely be the techie/engineer dude of the group.

    Even in her Future State suit you can see Steph's suit has more tech.
    Last edited by Konja7; 12-02-2020 at 04:49 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Speaking of Bette, she goes by Hawkfire or Flamebird nowadays?
    Flamebird, nobody likes Hawkfire. It's needlessly dark. Also the FB suit would make her distinct
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    A completely new character that originated the role, or at least a version of it. Her relationship with a the role of Batgirl establishes enough to justify her inclusion at least some capacity. There's a lot of overlap with all these characters in general, as that comes with the role, but Bette at least has a unique claim. Like i said im not really even for this idea, but it'd be an odd precedent to gatekeep it from Bette.
    i don't get why people gatekeeper Bette as a batgirl. she originated the name. she is unique, having started as a sidekick not a partner.
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    A completely new character that originated the role, or at least a version of it.
    about 60 years ago, in an era that falls mostly under "we don't speak about it", and with a paper thin characterisation.

    On top of she appeared only in very few issues back than, had not many appearances since than and her ever being Batgirl was allready erased from continuity roughly 35 years ago.
    Last edited by Aahz; 12-02-2020 at 11:59 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    There's a lot of overlap with all these characters in general, as that comes with the role, but Bette at least has a unique claim.
    The overlap with Steph is imo bigger than with the others, and not only because of the hair color

    For both it was comon that other characters thought that they didn't had what was necessary to be crime fighter, and both worked in medicine.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Though not specifically shown, Batman must have certainly given her training.
    I doubt that he did back than, and he definitely didn't in post crisis and in the current continuity.

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