Why is WW fighting street levelers from other heroes rogue galleries lately?

[WonderLight789]

No I think (barring Rucka) her feats in the comics in the last few years haven't been great and I don't like it. You're making it sound that her status as #2 is the direct cause though, and I don't think it is. Because I want her to be at the power level she was Golden-post Crisis, and I still view her as the #2 there. She is infrequently portrayed as well below that now, which is an issue. I don't think it directly has anything to do with Superman though, as they do not show any signs of nerfing MM, Supergirl, Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, etc for his or anyone's benefit, and they even had him take shots from Aquaman in early Rebirth. This is a problem unique to her that they are screwing up, and I don't think there is any reason why beyond the fact that they are putting boring writers on her title.

Let's take sm out of the picture. What is second best to you? Because based on everything WW has done in her comic history, and based on the source of power and level she is supposed to have. I think she should be just as powerful as sg, shazam, mm if not more. If you think that she should be ranking that high then maybe we are on the same page.

Also i don't think "boring" is the problem. Because some of the writers that portay WW's power badly, do a better job with other powerhouses. Look at taylor. He had zombie WW fight mary marvel(a c list character at best). Yet he portrayed that fight as if mary was more powerful. With comments talking about strength of Hercules and speed of Mercury. Yet Diana has strength and speed from Gods as well. She also has a deeper connection to Zeus power since she is one of his children. And in her classic intro. She was stronger than Hercules, Faster than Mercury and even beat both in a contest. So how come taylor did a better job portraying the power of a c list as mary, while throwing Diana under the bus? When based on overall feats and power source, Diana should be more powerful than mary. Yet the battle between mary and WW didn't even seem like a fight that could go either way. And this is one of many examples. How come some of this writers suck to do W's power justice but do better for other characters with far less appearances and impact on the DCU.

[Gaius]

Let's take sm out of the picture. What is second best to you? Because based on everything WW has done in her comic history, and based on the source of power and level she is supposed to have. I think she should be just as powerful as sg, shazam, mm if not more. If you think that she should be ranking that high then maybe we are on the same page.

Also i don't think "boring" is the problem. Because some of the writers that portay WW's power badly, do a better job with other powerhouses. Look at taylor. He had zombie WW fight mary marvel(a c list character at best). Yet he portrayed that fight as if mary was more powerful. With comments talking about strength of Hercules and speed of Mercury. Yet Diana has strength and speed from Gods as well. She also has a deeper connection to Zeus power since she is one of his children. And in her classic intro. She was stronger than Hercules, Faster than Mercury and even beat both in a contest. So how come taylor did a better job portraying the power of a c list as mary, while throwing Diana under the bus? When based on overall feats and power source, Diana should be more powerful than mary. Yet the battle between mary and WW didn't even seem like a fight that could go either way. And this is one of many examples. How come some of this writers suck to do W's power justice but do better for other characters with far less appearances and impact on the DCU.

Taylor's just kind of a bad writer period when it comes to Diana, honestly. So that's just more of a continuation of his writing of her from Injustice than anything else.

Compared to her simping for Superman in Injustice and then getting one punched to death by Superman and Black Canary in DCeased that's rather low on the list of his nonsense.

[WonderLight789]

Taylor's just kind of a bad writer period when it comes to Diana, honestly. So that's just more of a continuation of his writing of her from Injustice than anything else.

You don't need to be great at writing to properly represent a character's power. WW is called a God, powerd up by Gods and all. By these same writers that then go and write her as a glorified mid tier instead. Yet with other less important characters they put more effort. I don't think this is happening because a lack of writing talent. There must be another explanation.

[Gaius]

You don't need to be great at writing to properly represent a character's power. WW is called a God, powerd up by Gods and all. By these same writers that then go and write her as a glorified mid tier instead. Yet with other less important characters they put more effort. I don't think this is happening because a lack of writing talent. There must be another explanation.

Well, in Taylor's case I'd say it's more he just doesn't seem to have much use for Diana unless when he can use her to talk about how great Superman is or get jobbed out by his one of favorites from the B and C list tiers.

[WonderLight789]

Well, in Taylor's case I'd say it's more he just doesn't seem to have much use for Diana unless when he can use her to talk about how great Superman is or get jobbed out by his one of favorites from the B and C list tiers.

And what's the explanation for tamaki, ggw, azz, priest, snyder, geoff, fontanna, etc?

[SiegePerilous02]

Let's take sm out of the picture. What is second best to you? Because based on everything WW has done in her comic history, and based on the source of power and level she is supposed to have. I think she should be just as powerful as sg, shazam, mm if not more. If you think that she should be ranking that high then maybe we are on the same page.

Also i don't think "boring" is the problem. Because some of the writers that portay WW's power badly, do a better job with other powerhouses. Look at taylor. He had zombie WW fight mary marvel(a c list character at best). Yet he portrayed that fight as if mary was more powerful. With comments talking about strength of Hercules and speed of Mercury. Yet Diana has strength and speed from Gods as well. She also has a deeper connection to Zeus power since she is one of his children. And in her classic intro. She was stronger than Hercules, Faster than Mercury and even beat both in a contest. So how come taylor did a better job portraying the power of a c list as mary, while throwing Diana under the bus? When based on overall feats and power source, Diana should be more powerful than mary. Yet the battle between mary and WW didn't even seem like a fight that could go either way. And this is one of many examples. How come some of this writers suck to do W's power justice but do better for other characters with far less appearances and impact on the DCU.

I think she should definitely be stronger than MM. Supergirl and Mary should be as strong as each other as they are the equivalent of that archetype, so depending on how one feels on the power ranking they should both be slightly weaker than her or slightly stronger but around the same level. While talking about the Marvel family, Captain Marvel Jr. should be much weaker than her.

Captain Marvel is weird since historically he is actually the one they hype up as being Superman's equal with deliberate teasing of not definitively answering who would win. So maybe him and Supes tied at #1, WW a close #2, Supergirl and Mary tied at #3 close behind her, and MM at #4. Freddy if we're ranking him at all at #5, Donna maybe tied with him, etc. But Marvel and Mary don't really work in the main DC universe anyway, they were created by Fawcett and were given the powers of a different Hercules. Wonder Woman is definitively stronger than her universe's Hercules (who is overhyped), but Billy gets his power from a different one. Mary originally got her power from Hippolyta, and not the same one who is Diana's mother, who rarely if ever performs feats on the level of her daughter or Mary without some outside aid. The Fawcett Marvel Family's use of the myth figures just does not mesh with how WW uses them for it to ever really work, so the intent that she is "stronger than Hercules" has never really been conclusive evidence she should be stronger than Marvel. That's why I'd rather they be on Earth-5 and she on Earth-1 and 2.

And what's the explanation for tamaki, ggw, azz, priest, snyder, geoff, fontanna, etc?

IDK, whatever other problems they had Azz and Johns depicted her power levels fine. GWW definitely got more and more disappointing as the run went on though, I have no idea what was going on there. And of course, Priest on JL was embarassing.

[WonderLight789]

I think she should definitely be stronger than MM. Supergirl and Mary should be as strong as each other as they are the equivalent of that archetype, so depending on how one feels on the power ranking they should both be slightly weaker than her or slightly stronger but around the same level. While talking about the Marvel family, Captain Marvel Jr. should be much weaker than her.

Captain Marvel is weird since historically he is actually the one they hype up as being Superman's equal with deliberate teasing of not definitively answering who would win. So maybe him and Supes tied at #1, WW a close #2, Supergirl and Mary tied at #3 close behind her, and MM at #4. Freddy if we're ranking him at all at #5, Donna maybe tied with him, etc. But Marvel and Mary don't really work in the main DC universe anyway, they were created by Fawcett and were given the powers of a different Hercules. Wonder Woman is definitively stronger than her universe's Hercules (who is overhyped), but Billy gets his power from a different one. Mary originally got her power from Hippolyta, and not the same one who is Diana's mother, who rarely if ever performs feats on the level of her daughter or Mary without some outside aid. The Fawcett Marvel Family's use of the myth figures just does not mesh with how WW uses them for it to ever really work, so the intent that she is "stronger than Hercules" has never really been conclusive evidence she should be stronger than Marvel. That's why I'd rather they be on Earth-5 and she on Earth-1 and 2.



IDK, whatever other problems they had Azz and Johns depicted her power levels fine. GWW definitely got more and more disappointing as the run went on though, I have no idea what was going on there. And of course, Priest on JL was embarassing.

shazam and his family share the same source of power from multiple Gods as WW. So i don't think shazam should be stronger. Specially now that WW not only has powers from multiple Gods like him, she also has a deeper connection to Zeus power.

And if we really want to talk about history. shazam maybe started it. But superman took the number one spot real fast. And for the longest time, sm has been treated as the number one without sharing the spot with anybody else.

azz and johns did not portray her power level well. Did we read the same comics? She did nothing in the 3 years of azz that any mid tier couldn't do. Same goes for johns.

[Robanker]

This is also not truly a good argument in this case, looking at Flash's stupidly wide array of speed force powers and possibilities like the infinite mass punch, is Cheetah like she is portrayed most often far more of a character who can only do that one thing than Flash himself. And as a physical challenge would she just make sense in a higher echelon of speed than Wonder Woman or Superman, and i don't think it would be unfair to let her crack the speed force level in parts because she has still far less powers. It could get even explained with divine magic, the god wave was even the source of the speed force in the past, and we saw full blown gods like Mercury/Hermes do things like speed stealing:

For what it's worth, wasn't this before the Speed Force came into play and Flash went from "the fastest man alive" to "the plot device who runs?"

Wally would have time to run to Olympus, delete Hermes' TiVo and come back between panels 1-2 without Hermes any the wiser if this was written today. And that's not a knock on Hermes.

[SiegePerilous02]

shazam and his family share the same source of power from multiple Gods as WW. So i don't think shazam should be stronger. Specially now that WW not only has powers from multiple Gods like him, she also has a deeper connection to Zeus power.

And if we really want to talk about history. shazam maybe started it. But superman took the number one spot real fast. And for the longest time, sm has been treated as the number one without sharing the spot with anybody else.

azz and johns did not portray her power level well. Did we read the same comics? She did nothing in the 3 years of azz that any mid tier couldn't do. Same goes for johns.

No they are different versions of the same Gods. The gods and other myth figures are public domain to be interpreted in many different ways, and Captain Marvel is not originally a DC character. He was Fawcett and was added much later, that's why he doesn't mesh with the shared DC universe and its take on the Gods. How else do you explain Mary Marvel being Supergirl level when DC Hippolyta (the source of Mary's powers) is not?

Superman was the #1 in DC, but again Marvel wasn't DC until they acquired the rights around the bronze Age and left him on Earth-S. When they did cross over, they hyped him up as being equal to Superman, and this was pre-Crisis Superman so that's a big deal, and left it ambiguous as to who would win if they ever fought. This is why there were nods to this in Justice and Kingdom Come, and in Morrison's JLA. There is a longer history there, both in universe and in a meta sense.

I read the same comics. I don't consider helping Superman catch an aircraft carrier while flying in Throne of Atlantis or surviving the extreme pressures in the Trench as mid tier. I think you're applying that term way too liberally.

[Gaius]

shazam and his family share the same source of power from multiple Gods as WW. So i don't think shazam should be stronger. Specially now that WW not only has powers from multiple Gods like him, she also has a deeper connection to Zeus power.

And if we really want to talk about history. shazam maybe started it. But superman took the number one spot real fast. And for the longest time, sm has been treated as the number one without sharing the spot with anybody else.

azz and johns did not portray her power level well. Did we read the same comics? She did nothing in the 3 years of azz that any mid tier couldn't do. Same goes for johns.

I mean say what you will about Azzarello did to the Amazons, daddy Zeus, or how he characterized Diana but I think he portrayed her fine enough in terms "feats" with stuff like the Artemis fight and Ares/First Born. Not exactly the stuff I'd expect to see someone like Batman or Green Arrow could do.

Ok, except Bats in the hands of most writers these days unfortunately.

[SiegePerilous02]

I mean say what you will about Azzarello did to the Amazons, daddy Zeus, or how he characterized Diana but I think he portrayed her fine enough in terms "feats" with stuff like the Artemis fight and Ares/First Born. Not exactly the stuff I'd expect to see someone like Batman or Green Arrow could do.

Ok, except Bats in the hands of most writers these days unfortunately.

The First Born was able to hold a Boom Tube open with his bare hands, and Diana was able to go toe to toe with someone like that. Even over power him to tie him up with the lasso.

I don't know how one concludes "mid tier" with that.

[Frontier]

For what it's worth, wasn't this before the Speed Force came into play and Flash went from "the fastest man alive" to "the plot device who runs?"

Wally would have time to run to Olympus, delete Hermes' TiVo and come back between panels 1-2 without Hermes any the wiser if this was written today. And that's not a knock on Hermes.

Was that ever Wally?

[Agent Z]

As I've stated before, some superhero comics have an issue of pitting their heroes against inappropriate enemies and Diana definitely suffers from that.

[WonderLight789]

No they are different versions of the same Gods. The gods and other myth figures are public domain to be interpreted in many different ways, and Captain Marvel is not originally a DC character. He was Fawcett and was added much later, that's why he doesn't mesh with the shared DC universe and its take on the Gods. How else do you explain Mary Marvel being Supergirl level when DC Hippolyta (the source of Mary's powers) is not?

Superman was the #1 in DC, but again Marvel wasn't DC until they acquired the rights around the bronze Age and left him on Earth-S. When they did cross over, they hyped him up as being equal to Superman, and this was pre-Crisis Superman so that's a big deal, and left it ambiguous as to who would win if they ever fought. This is why there were nods to this in Justice and Kingdom Come, and in Morrison's JLA. There is a longer history there, both in universe and in a meta sense.

I read the same comics. I don't consider helping Superman catch an aircraft carrier while flying in Throne of Atlantis or surviving the extreme pressures in the Trench as mid tier. I think you're applying that term way too liberally.

Well shazam hasn't been equal to superman in a long time. And if somebody elsse can share number one spot with sm. Then WW should be there too.

Lifting an aircraft and surviving high level of pressuare is indeed a mid tier field. These are things that charaters like namor,she-hulk(before amp), carol ms marvel(no binary), the thing etc can do. And they aren't high tiers.

[WonderLight789]

I mean say what you will about Azzarello did to the Amazons, daddy Zeus, or how he characterized Diana but I think he portrayed her fine enough in terms "feats" with stuff like the Artemis fight and Ares/First Born. Not exactly the stuff I'd expect to see someone like Batman or Green Arrow could do.

Ok, except Bats in the hands of most writers these days unfortunately.

She did nothing impressive in azz. The Gods in that run are featless and nothing impressive. The same way that calling WW a powerful God means nothing without feats to back it up. She was a mid tier in azz. Which is well above green arrow or batman. But not on the same level as a high tier.