Ok lets not low ball Cheetah's powers here. Cheetah is a Flash level speedster (without a connection to the speedforce tbf) with all the strength and durability to fight Wonder Woman. I wouldn't say Clark losing to Cheetah is particularly jobbing.
Ok lets not low ball Cheetah's powers here. Cheetah is a Flash level speedster (without a connection to the speedforce tbf) with all the strength and durability to fight Wonder Woman. I wouldn't say Clark losing to Cheetah is particularly jobbing.
Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor
Cheetah is still faster then Diana, most of the time WW needs to anticipate Cheetah's movement pattern/out think her to catch her. Cheetah also plays with her food alot too, meaning she holds back. She's also magically powered and can basically cut through anything given her recent upgrades. Hunting the JL 1 by 1 in a jungle is a tactic that multiple villains have done before, catching the group off guard and blitzing one of their heavy hitters is another tactic. Cheetah also fights Wondy constantly, she clearly has some combat skills.
But this is getting off topic TBH
Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor
... I mean it already kind of is...She has it on her, sure, but let’s not act like it is on the forefront. (Once again, I’m not saying REMOVE stuff like super strength and flight, I’m saying they shouldn’t be a major focus (as it isn’t even something unique to Wonder Woman anyway, I believe someone earlier in this thread called the trope “flying brick”)... I.e. Wonder Woman shouldn’t need to announce that she pulled her punch with someone like Blue Snowman [who is in a robotic suit regardless])
Outside that time she teamed up with Zoom and got a boost, I don't think Cheetah's ever been portrayed as that fast. She's certainly in the Diana/Clark tier as we've seen in some stories when she's on her A-Game... but Flash? That's another echelon of speed usually reserved for characters who... well can only do that one thing. I don't think it's unfair to see Cheetah can't crack the speed force level.
That's one of the boosts I'm talking about.
The speedforce is the main difference between speedsters like Flash and Cheetah. Flash has total access, Cheetah has zero. The speedforce gives a ton of additional powers that Cheetah simply doesn't have. Flash has total control of his molecules, can faze through material, steal speed, time travel, etc.... Cheetah is just really fast. And yes, going 100%, Flash (Wally especially) is faster.
Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor
To me, "street level" has always been characters who are super-power-free fighters: Daeredevil, Batman, Elektra. Anyone who has a superpower that could potentially impact any of the "big guns" is NOT a street-leveler. Vertigo's power, if written well, could give someone like Diana or Supes some trouble.
Yeah of course it applies to Wonder Woman too. But i don't try to bring her down a notch, i try to bring her up millions of notches as it stands, all i am saying is that i don't think if Superman and by extension Supergirl could lift the earth and Wonder Woman just the venus, but as trade off could Wonder Woman fight at 3,3 times the speed of light in an effective way and Superman and by extension Supergirl just at 3 times the speed of light. I am well aware that Marston has specifically said all the strenght of Superman, but i don't even think he would have a problem with my proposal.
I however have to disagree with this, DC has contradicted their own words often enough, and by the same token would it be head canon without too much basis to talk about modern Supergirl being stronger than modern Wonder Woman, especially by looking at who is portrayed as the strongest female superhero with statements and suggestions from DC.
And i have also disagree about the rest, because you are not talking about Superman being physically a bit stronger than Wonder Woman, you are talking about outright making Superman superior to Wonder Woman because he would be otherwise allegedly inferior due to his weaknesses. This is strongly contradicted in a time were it has been not long that Wonder Woman's often existing weakness to weapons of the piercing kind, was going so far that get shot by regular bullets got portrayed as life-threatening event, even in a very bad context scene were the same bullets first bounced off Superman and with the incredible silly explanation that Wonder Woman could not react to indirect attacks. And if we are honest, being outright inferior puts Wonder Woman not even on the second but often enough on the last place of the heavy hitters in the Justice League in modern times, which opens another can of worms. Last but not least should be Superman's weaknesses not even common enough for this argument, it just sometimes looks like that because of bad writing, red suns should be no typical problem for obvious reasons, kryptonite should be a very rare material, and magic is not even meant to be a hard counter in general like any Superman fan could explain. In fact should Superman outright lose any direct enconuter with Wonder Woman if magic would be a big enough weakness to jusify making Superman superior, Wonder Woman is a magical beig, with magical weapons, who even uses more dire magic like Zeus magical lightning now and then. But even Shazam or Black Adam are just portrayed as threats, but not as certain loses for him.
Of course has Wonder Woman bigger problems, but the idea of making her outright inferior to Superman is part of the same problems, and Wonder Woman's fights with Doomsday as example, or half canon/alternative world fights with Superman or Bizzaro as other example are usually more impactful and worse than the few times Superman jobbed to Wonder Woman villains. I am talking about storylines like this blatant insult to Wonder Woman as a character as example:
This is also not truly a good argument in this case, looking at Flash's stupidly wide array of speed force powers and possibilities like the infinite mass punch, is Cheetah like she is portrayed most often far more of a character who can only do that one thing than Flash himself. And as a physical challenge would she just make sense in a higher echelon of speed than Wonder Woman or Superman, and i don't think it would be unfair to let her crack the speed force level in parts because she has still far less powers. It could get even explained with divine magic, the god wave was even the source of the speed force in the past, and we saw full blown gods like Mercury/Hermes do things like speed stealing:
Last edited by Rightoya; 12-04-2020 at 11:12 PM.
I never got this. Why make a character inspired by Epic Greek Heroes just to bring them down to street level villains?
This is like saying Thor using a weapon nerfs him. Sword and Sheild doesn't "nerf" her it enhances her character. It makes her fights more interesting as opposed to generic punching/flying fights other heroes already do.
It's the enemies she's fighting against that nerf her. If they pit her against Cthulhu type enemies on a regular basis no one would mind her sword and sheild.
december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?
The sword/shield is stupid for Diana's supposed powerset. You go to a fight with a sword, the only sense in using it is to stab/slash/kill your opponent. That seems very contradictory to what most of us know about her. I can see why, if it is a origin story, she uses that only to realize her mission and what carrying a sword at all times would represent to the public at large. If she is almost as strong as Superman (very dubious claim), then there is no need for this except to say they want to make her a superpowered Xena.
If she has learned to stop using the sword/shield in her 2nd solo movie, then why is it still front and center in the BvS and JL movies? DC can't seem to make up their mind with the direction they want to go with her. I think her using the sword/shield does nerf her or at least makes her dependent on items she doesn't need. Why have the bracers at all if she is just going to use the shield to block ranged attacks? Why make her look even closely like Captain America?
I have always wanted a consistent powerset throughout all the mediums that Wonder Woman is in. The fact that DC still can't get this right is mind boggling. Is she that tough a character to write good stories about without jerking us around with what her current defined powers she might have?
I would say, at this point, is to give her over to Marvel (I know this ain't happening) and see how they treat her!